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With Darren Barker fighting this Saturday and saying he has heard enough from Macklin who seems to think he is the top dog, coupled with rumours of a fight between Barker and Lee, and Macklin having called out both, who do you think is the best middleweight and in which order do you rate the other three ?
I think the Poll order has revealed my order
1. Darren Barker
2. Matthew Macklin
3. Martin Murray
4. Andy Lee
I don't necessarily think that this means Barker is the most likely to win a world title but I do believe that he is a clever enough boxer to beat the other three. Macklin has a lot of heart and a decent workrate with Murray not that far behind and sorry but I don't really rate Andy Lee.
I see it the same way too. It's tough a list to put together for me. I can't help but think that at the world level, Andy Lee has a bit of a chin deficit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
I was a little disappointed in Barker's opponent this time around. I expected to try and get right back onto the world stage after the loss he suffered at the hands of Martinez. Instead, he's taking his time.
Macklin might just be the best of the group. It's a tough call between Macklin and Barker.
Murray is a bit of a wild card. I thought he performed great against Sturm and think he has a chance against Martinez.
It's a true shame that none of these guys has faced each other yet. If you add it, Proksa, as another top level UK-based middleweight, it becomes almost odd that there have been no-big UK domestic match-ups at middleweight.
IMO
its 1) Murray 2) Barker 3) Macklin 4) Lee
I think its pretty close between Murray and Barker, I hope they can fight one day, it would be a great showdown.
I have it Macklin, Barker, Lee and Murray. I really don't rate Murray and don't see him beating any of the other bar maybe Lee. Lee has the tos to be the best if them but gets hit to easy. Don't forget he was ahead in all cards when he got KOd by Chavez, who may I add, refused to give a post fight urine sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Lee wasnt too impressive last time out against that Irish guy, and I think any of the other three would be too much for him. I think Lee would probably do better against a better fighter, but hes shown that he is beatable. I think Murray is decent and again I think he will do better against a better fight, I dont think he will beat Martinez but I think he will show us that he belongs at the top of the weight class. I hope these four can settle whos the best though, I think Barker is pushing for these fights, so hopefully they will happen soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeI have it Macklin, Barker, Lee and Murray. I really don't rate Murray and don't see him beating any of the other bar maybe Lee. Lee has the tos to be the best if them but gets hit to easy. Don't forget he was ahead in all cards when he got KOd by Chavez, who may I add, refused to give a post fight urine sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
I think Barker is pushing for these because it is the only way he will get a decent payday again. Can't see him winning a world title and isn't a big draw by himself so needs these guys. If he's smart he gets Lee and sooner rather then later. I can see Lee improving with his new trainer and should get good sparring with Groves in his campQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam SeddonLee wasnt too impressive last time out against that Irish guy, and I think any of the other three would be too much for him. I think Lee would probably do better against a better fighter, but hes shown that he is beatable. I think Murray is decent and again I think he will do better against a better fight, I dont think he will beat Martinez but I think he will show us that he belongs at the top of the weight class. I hope these four can settle whos the best though, I think Barker is pushing for these fights, so hopefully they will happen soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeI have it Macklin, Barker, Lee and Murray. I really don't rate Murray and don't see him beating any of the other bar maybe Lee. Lee has the tos to be the best if them but gets hit to easy. Don't forget he was ahead in all cards when he got KOd by Chavez, who may I add, refused to give a post fight urine sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Barker is fighting this weekend so hopefully if he wins that he will be able to push for a fight with Lee. He was out for a while with injury as well, and I thought Barker looked decent in his last fight. Hopefully these fights do get made soon, because they would be good to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeI think Barker is pushing for these because it is the only way he will get a decent payday again. Can't see him winning a world title and isn't a big draw by himself so needs these guys. If he's smart he gets Lee and sooner rather then later. I can see Lee improving with his new trainer and should get good sparring with Groves in his campQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam SeddonLee wasnt too impressive last time out against that Irish guy, and I think any of the other three would be too much for him. I think Lee would probably do better against a better fighter, but hes shown that he is beatable. I think Murray is decent and again I think he will do better against a better fight, I dont think he will beat Martinez but I think he will show us that he belongs at the top of the weight class. I hope these four can settle whos the best though, I think Barker is pushing for these fights, so hopefully they will happen soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeI have it Macklin, Barker, Lee and Murray. I really don't rate Murray and don't see him beating any of the other bar maybe Lee. Lee has the tos to be the best if them but gets hit to easy. Don't forget he was ahead in all cards when he got KOd by Chavez, who may I add, refused to give a post fight urine sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
That's how I'd have itQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
1. Matthew Macklin
2. Martin Murray
3. Darren Barker
4. Andy Lee
Murray has is a gift draw against Strum. Barker was comptitive for a couple of rounds against Sergio Martinez. Lee has never been any good. Macklin is the only one who's actually beaten anyone of note. Yes Yory Boy Campas and Joachim Alcine were both shot when he beat them and in reality there both meaningless wins. But it doesn't change the fact there still better wins than anything the other 3 have managed
I think Barker is head, shoulders and bollocks above the others.
Based on what? Beating Darren McDermott? That's his best win. And that's not muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
i voted barker but i am suprised not to see macklin at the top
im glad they are all getting world title shots and all that but id like to see them fight each other now
i think it would be better for the british public at least
ive changed my mind, i think id back macklin to beat barker
Yes i agree with this as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyThat's how I'd have itQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
I think Barker is honouring a previous agreement to face Rotolo and if he was not so injury prone he would fight more often. It does seem churlish for the four to not be fighting each other. Macklin seems to think that he has left the other three behind. Barker seems eager to fight Lee and I can see no reason why that fight should not be made. Barker v Macklin is a hugely overdue fight that would be huge here in the UK but Macklin v Murray would be just as entertaining and could draw similar numbers. Will be interesting to see how Murray fares against Martinez and where he goes from there.
If ranked by their records I would have it
Macklin
Barker
Murray
Lee
Who I think would come out on top in a round robin
Barker
Macklin
Murray
Lee
Macklin-Barker is hard to call though. Barker could outclass him with boxing, but Macklin is tougher and could possibly break him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I would have to agree with all of that. I just wish they would get in a ring and sort it out. There is not a huge gulf between any of them and it is hardly a huge problem for any half competent promoter to sell. It's about time we had a big British domestic fight at this kind of level again.
Actually it's not odd it's par for the course in Britain. Different promoters and TV stations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
About ten years ago, in a very similar situation, Britian had a bunch of decent lightmiddle's - Wayne Alexander, Richard Williams, Steve Roberts, Anthony Farnell, Takaloo. They all had different titles (Brit/Euro/shitty "world" titles) and because of their promoter/managers all just squabbled on TV about who was no.1, instead of actually fighting (some did eventually fight after they were "exposed"). In the end they all got beat and a bunch of great fights were lost. Tragic.
Hearn and DiBella have worked together recently and Lee was on Hearn's Belfast bill. So they can easily make Barker/Lee/Macklin. Just wouldn't hold my breathQuote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Now that Andy Lee is working with that no talent butt pirate Adam Booth his career is over. It's a shame he never lived up to his potential, he could have been somebody. I think his poor footwork hurt his work with Manny Steward (may he R.I.P.), because if he could have moved better his defense would not have been as easily thwarted as it was.
Adam Booth's wins to loss ratio must be outstanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
He currently trains Haye, Groves and Lee. Haye has lost 2 in 28, Groves is 16-0 and Lee is 1-0.
He also trained Selcuk Aydin for his fight against Soto-Karass. It didn't turn out too well.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterAdam Booth's wins to loss ratio must be outstanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
He currently trains Haye, Groves and Lee. Haye has lost 2 in 28, Groves is 16-0 and Lee is 1-0.
Lee's wins over Vera and McEwan aren't bad wins. They are probably better than any win Barker or Murray has on their resume. Am I wrong on that one?
Frankly, I think the time is ripe for a fight between any of them, unless they can secure title fights against other world champions.
You'll never get a big domestic fight out of these four even at the end of a tournament featuring all of them because the British public don't care about any of them. There's just not much excitement there. If there was a tournament I'd probably just record all the fights and watch ones that the forum liked/ended in knockouts. Or maybe just the knockouts. I picked Macklin. I think he's the least worst of the four.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I would have to agree with all of that. I just wish they would get in a ring and sort it out. There is not a huge gulf between any of them and it is hardly a huge problem for any half competent promoter to sell. It's about time we had a big British domestic fight at this kind of level again.
Barker is the real deal to me. Put up an excellent performance against Martinez and had never been in with anybody anywhere near that class in way of preparation. I could see him winning a world strap!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Ditto. Class of the field.
I think Barker is the most skilled boxer of the lot. Hard for me to be objective here because I fucking hate Matthew Macklin with a passion. Murray & Barker both were on Ringside recently and they got Macklin on the phone. Macklin said he wouldn't find those two as he was levels above them. Is he kidding? He was finished by Martinez in the same round as Barker and he did worse against Sturm than Murray. He hasn't done anything to make you think he is levels above the other two. The man has delusions of grandeur.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterActually it's not odd it's par for the course in Britain. Different promoters and TV stations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
About ten years ago, in a very similar situation, Britian had a bunch of decent lightmiddle's - Wayne Alexander, Richard Williams, Steve Roberts, Anthony Farnell, Takaloo. They all had different titles (Brit/Euro/shitty "world" titles) and because of their promoter/managers all just squabbled on TV about who was no.1, instead of actually fighting (some did eventually fight after they were "exposed"). In the end they all got beat and a bunch of great fights were lost. Tragic.
As I was reading this thread and planning my reply, I came across your post and it is exactly what I was going to say. I remember reading similar threads and aricles back then. A lot of WBU's and IBO's floating around back then. I remember they were talking about a tournament at one time. A lot of these guys must have missed out on some good paydays.
Barker says he wants the domestic fights to happen, but even he is saying AFTER a world title belt. These are big enough fights in themselves to warrant each boxers attention and would help improve their rankings, exposure and chance of getting those world title shots.
Macklin and Murray fights must happen says Barker (From Times Series)
The players involved should do a Don King type mid tourney and sort it out. No four rounders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Poor guy. Looks like he'll never be satisfiedQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
I wouldn't say that. If guys like Ishe Smith, Souleymane M'Baye & Lovemore N'Dou can be world champions, there is serious hope for anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemisePoor guy. Looks like he'll never be satisfiedQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
barker has good skills, good enough to win a world titleQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnI wouldn't say that. If guys like Ishe Smith, Souleymane M'Baye & Lovemore N'Dou can be world champions, there is serious hope for anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemisePoor guy. Looks like he'll never be satisfiedQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
maybe doesnt have great power
I reckon there are question marks over his engine
I have Macklin the best but they are getting on now and should fight before people lose interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
i suppose macklin is in a decent position on the world title stage tho and could get another shotQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI have Macklin the best but they are getting on now and should fight before people lose interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
do you think and all english clash would generate more money than another world title fight?
I bet Macklin gets Junior in June. A fight with Junior is a lot more money than a fight with his domestic rivals. Murray is facing Martinez in April, which leaves Lee. Lee versus Barker is a good fight. They should make it happen.
The only thing these 4 will be contesting is the Middlewight Prize Fighter competition...thats it
Job biscuit (European level @ best)!!!
eh eh!!!
Agree, I think this is a good fight and can see Lee exposing Barker for what he really is. Barker would definitely be favourite here but I'd back Lee if the odds were big enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat