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Almost everyone but some of the diehard Brit fans on this forum believe Khan is a chump. But Khan is simply using clever strategy to lure his opponents into a false sense of security as seen in his fight with Danny Garcia below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou1DL1ZvjO0
Amir Khan is more dangerous then ever!
Thoughts?
just wait for him to win prizefighter then his danger levels will be beyond anything which has ever been seen
I think he would beat Garcia in a rematch and Peterson. He's a much better boxer then both. I hate the prick but he is a class fighter. He takes dangerous fights too which is more then you can say for a lot of fighters nowadays.
Must be Hell trying to be a slugger with a chin made of day old soup crackers.
All that video showed was a fighter with amazing heart and bollocks. Listen to the comms. I'm more than happy to be in a "minority" with the late great Manny Steward that DID NOT consider Khan a chump. Thanks.
Broken glass is always dangerous
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Khan is a very good boxer, he has fought some of the best and won but he can't take a punch to the head.
His focus and defence needs work. It's puzzling to watch him, he'll be doing great and all of a sudden he will be out of position or leave his chin hanging out there, like a switch went off.
I think he could snag another belt if he will stick to the plan stay focused.
Amir khan is chinny, agreed.
Freddie Roach tried to change his style to stay away from big punchers during fights, but Amir wants to engage, and credit to him for it.
He is also much more skilled than any of the fighters that have beaten him, but again he likes to engage is brawls.
If he could control his natural urges to fight and just box smart he could be much better.
However, he is still a good draw for promoters to have.
^^all that and I actually don't really like him too much. But you can't argue with facts.
Amazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
He could've stayed down but showed great desire to continue ... it takes heart to do what he did. How was he petrified when he didn't even hold and continued to foolishly slug it out? You're just hating hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
Steward was just as sharp as he was before ... you're accusing him of suffering from a medical illness for which you haven't brought forward any evidence for
He has a glass jaw, but he's still a very good boxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Lol
You know its not really his chin imo its his brain or approach once he starts to feel or experience adversity. He's got all the tools in spades along with natural athleticism but he tends to have brain farts during the fight and lose focus and with that his ability to adjust.
Its just a natural tendency and instinct IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Lol
You know its not really his chin imo its his brain or approach once he starts to feel or experience adversity. He's got all the tools in spades along with natural athleticism but he tends to have brain farts during the fight and lose focus and with that his ability to adjust.
Its not that he doesn't think ... its that he thinks he is something that he is not ... he thinks he's a banger who can trade but his chin won't allow that
That's what i'm talking about! Great post, now that Amir has everyone taking him lightly, he comes back and lowers the boom on everyone @140. An absolutely brilliant strategy. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
BTW, Praise Allah!
I'd listen to Manny Steward 25 years into dementia about boxing before I listened to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
Not insult intended in that.
Just a personal observation, Manny sounded like a blithering idiot at times in his last few years on HBO. For example Steward might say Khan is a great fighter, with tons of heart, who just fought one of the best fights of his career. Huh? But Manny, he fought a dumb fight and just got his ass handed to him, WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombHe could've stayed down but showed great desire to continue ... it takes heart to do what he did. How was he petrified when he didn't even hold and continued to foolishly slug it out? You're just hating hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
Steward was just as sharp as he was before ... you're accusing him of suffering from a medical illness for which you haven't brought forward any evidence for
He has a glass jaw, but he's still a very good boxer
In addition to being, desperate and petrified, he's also wasn't too smart, no hate, just stating the facts as I see them. Khan was supposed to be one of the next big things in boxing, but he hasn't come close to succeeding at it.
As well you should, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI'd listen to Manny Steward 25 years into dementia about boxing before I listened to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
Not insult intended in that.
4 time world champion isn't succeeding?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust a personal observation, Manny sounded like a blithering idiot at times in his last few years on HBO. For example his might say Khan is a great fighter, with tons of heart, who just fought one of the best fights of his career. Huh? But Manny, he fought a dumb fight and just got his ass handed to him, WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombHe could've stayed down but showed great desire to continue ... it takes heart to do what he did. How was he petrified when he didn't even hold and continued to foolishly slug it out? You're just hating hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
Steward was just as sharp as he was before ... you're accusing him of suffering from a medical illness for which you haven't brought forward any evidence for
He has a glass jaw, but he's still a very good boxer
In addition to being, desperate and petrified, he's also wasn't too smart, no hate, just stating the facts as I see them. Khan was supposed to be one of the next big things in boxing, but he hasn't come close to succeeding at it.
Khan is a master boxer, but that chin lets him down pity but true, he is not unlike a luxury house
with something missing,! the front door maybe not just the finished article.;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombIts just a natural tendency and instinct IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Lol
You know its not really his chin imo its his brain or approach once he starts to feel or experience adversity. He's got all the tools in spades along with natural athleticism but he tends to have brain farts during the fight and lose focus and with that his ability to adjust.
Its not that he doesn't think ... its that he thinks he is something that he is not ... he thinks he's a banger who can trade but his chin won't allow that
Yup that's part of it. He ends up in situations he has no need to be in. I've been saying for years that his problems are upstairs. Interesting that you called it instinctive because it almost seems like he's stuck in between the fight or flight response during the fight.
Some success there for sure, but not since Amir has stepped up in competition, and not as being the "next big thing". Remember there for a while before the fight with Maidana, Khan fanboys had him clearing out everyone in 2 divisions, from 140 to 147, and were putting him inline for a shot at Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos4 time world champion isn't succeeding?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust a personal observation, Manny sounded like a blithering idiot at times in his last few years on HBO. For example his might say Khan is a great fighter, with tons of heart, who just fought one of the best fights of his career. Huh? But Manny, he fought a dumb fight and just got his ass handed to him, WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombHe could've stayed down but showed great desire to continue ... it takes heart to do what he did. How was he petrified when he didn't even hold and continued to foolishly slug it out? You're just hating hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
Steward was just as sharp as he was before ... you're accusing him of suffering from a medical illness for which you haven't brought forward any evidence for
He has a glass jaw, but he's still a very good boxer
In addition to being, desperate and petrified, he's also wasn't too smart, no hate, just stating the facts as I see them. Khan was supposed to be one of the next big things in boxing, but he hasn't come close to succeeding at it.
More like an overrated/overhyped house that had a weak foundation, and faulty wiring, that sold for too much. The house got hit by a tornado (Prescott) weathered a few storms and held up quite well after that before getting it's doors blown in again. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Probably said it 100 times, Khan has great skills and could beat anyone in or around his weight. That chin or whatever it is will always be a high risk to let him down.
He could move up and beat Ward, I still wouldn't be a fan. For not demanding a rematch with Prescott is unforgiveable in my eyes. Some fighters would have taken the fight for free if it meant getting the chance to put the record straight.
Entertaining when he fights? yes but there's definitely something missing. He went out of his way to get the Peterson result overturned, before any drugs issue was out, it was all about the man in the hat. Shady dealings it did look like but where was the burning desire to put the record straight with his fists?. Maidana was worthy of a rematch but no chance that was going to happen.
Why didn't he take peanuts to lure Garcia in to an immediate rematch? Khan has millions he could have made that money back by now.
Fuck me even 'Dudey' looked only 1 big uppercut away from dropping Khan on his arse even if he was losing every round.
I'm sure Khan can be a nice guy but the fact he didn't go back in against Prescott and the fact he refers to himself as 'amir khan' and not 'i' like us mere mortals would tells me all I need to know. ;D
I can see the point you make and specifically in Khans case it may have helped him when he was against the wall in future fights but they decided not to and as it turns out Prescott has turned out to me essentially a one hit wonder anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyash
Benny Leonard was cold cocked in his first fight and his 12th and then once again in his 16th and 20th and he never rematched any of them except Flemming and he lost that fight also by decision.
Henry Armstrong was laid out in his first fight and lost 2 of his next three but he never bothered to hunt down Al Lovino.
Arguello was knocked out in his 5th fight and then lost to a guy he beat previously right after and he never did seek revenge over Amaya.
Its a good point that the Prescott loss could be haunting him still and that a revenge match may have changed things but those above persevered in spite of early blow outs and went on to become legends.
All of the above points to Khan being stupid ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
I understand what you are saying and I'm not saying that i'm right or wrong, it's just my personal thoughts towards Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI can see the point you make and specifically in Khans case it may have helped him when he was against the wall in future fights but they decided not to and as it turns out Prescott has turned out to me essentially a one hit wonder anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyash
Benny Leonard was cold cocked in his first fight and his 12th and then once again in his 16th and 20th and he never rematched any of them except Flemming and he lost that fight also by decision.
Henry Armstrong was laid out in his first fight and lost 2 of his next three but he never bothered to hunt down Al Lovino.
Arguello was knocked out in his 5th fight and then lost to a guy he beat previously right after and he never did seek revenge over Amaya.
Its a good point that the Prescott loss could be haunting him still and that a revenge match may have changed things but those above persevered in spite of early blow outs and went on to become legends.
I know Prescott has turned out to be nothing special, I never actually expected him to be after the Khan fight. He just happened to be the first person who could finish Khan off once he had hurt him, Khan had already been hurt on numerous occasions just no one had capitilised on it. Khan was an olympic silver medallist who was telling everyone he could rule the world. No one knew what Prescott would go on to do but that shouldn't matter. He could have been a 15-20-5 journeyman. Either way Prescott continually shouted for him to take the opportunity. (for the payday i'm sure :))
Thanks for mentioning the other fighters who never went after their conquerers, it does in a way undermine my own views to some extent. The only difference being that these guys were fighting more often and against tough guys, and probably were not expected to achieve what they did. Khan rebuilds against guys much smaller, which long term can't help him out.
As I said i'm not saying i'm right in my beliefs but the way Khan goes about things is not what I admire. I may be a bit harsh saying that no matter what he achieves i'll never be a fan.
I do not disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyAll of the above points to Khan being stupid ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
So lets get this straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
1. The fighter could have chose to stay down for the count.
2. The fighter could have got up and done everything in his power to survive - hold, spoil, etc.
3. The fighter gets up and fights for his life, all guns blazing, kill or be killed, goes out on his shield protesting to the ref.
You think that option 3 demonstrates - "petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO"
Odd.
Thanks.
Why is everyone so reverential (is that the right word?) to Amir Khan?
Audley won a gold olympic medal, has had 31 pro fights and lost 6, looks to be on a downward spiral but who knows?
Amir won an Olympic silver, has had 27 pro fights and lost 3, looks to be on a downward spiral (sound familiar?)
Audley did his own thing promotions wise, good luck to him, hope he's made a few quid.
Amir had a lot of money invested in him by two big promoters, but the fact remains he's been shaken by some journeymen, and beaten by 3 medium to good contenders.
The money men continue to push Amir, to re-coup their investment, christ he's now reached the dizzy heights of Sheffield Motorpoint Arena on 27th April! Wow!
The fact of the matter is he's not that good and the british public are losing interest, end of.
Spend your ticket/ppv money on Kell Brook, just like you did Ricky Hatton, at least you know there's a fighter in there!
You need to get a job working for HBO, Fenn, you're just about as histrionic as they are in regards to calling fights. This is comical. ~~> "The fighter gets up and fights for his life, all guns blazing, kill or be killed, goes out on his shield protesting to the ref". That's dramatic stuff dude. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSo lets get this straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axAmazing heart and bollocks? Looked more like a drunken sailor who was petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO. As for Manny Steward, no disrespect, but due to dementia during the last 5 years of his life, his analysis and commentary had totally deteriorated along with his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I hope this helps. ;)
1. The fighter could have chose to stay down for the count.
2. The fighter could have got up and done everything in his power to survive - hold, spoil, etc.
3. The fighter gets up and fights for his life, all guns blazing, kill or be killed, goes out on his shield protesting to the ref.
You think that option 3 demonstrates - "petrified and trying desperately to avoid getting KTFO"
Odd.
Thanks.
Make no mistake, Khan was fighting out of desperation and to survive, he's trading with Garcia, not because he has "heart", but rather shit for brains.
BTW, You don't have to swing on Khan's nuts Fenn, he's not even a real Brit. :p
True enough and another quality post.Losing a fight or 2 or 5 was not the end of a career. Perhaps whats lacking here is poverty. All 3 of the guys mentioned came out of squalor. Khan seems to come from a privileged back ground was put on a pedestal like Harrison and was probably and early millionaire. Celebrity trainers don't help either. Btw I'm no fan of Khan but if he could get his head on straight instead of surrounding himself with yes men and go back to the grind he could change things around. If I were him I'd go find me a trainer in East Philly or something who has trained for 50 years and nobody knows his name. I'd cancel his twitter and fb accounts and not allow the cameras into his camps. Complete and utter re-dedication to his craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyashI understand what you are saying and I'm not saying that i'm right or wrong, it's just my personal thoughts towards Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI can see the point you make and specifically in Khans case it may have helped him when he was against the wall in future fights but they decided not to and as it turns out Prescott has turned out to me essentially a one hit wonder anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyash
Benny Leonard was cold cocked in his first fight and his 12th and then once again in his 16th and 20th and he never rematched any of them except Flemming and he lost that fight also by decision.
Henry Armstrong was laid out in his first fight and lost 2 of his next three but he never bothered to hunt down Al Lovino.
Arguello was knocked out in his 5th fight and then lost to a guy he beat previously right after and he never did seek revenge over Amaya.
Its a good point that the Prescott loss could be haunting him still and that a revenge match may have changed things but those above persevered in spite of early blow outs and went on to become legends.
I know Prescott has turned out to be nothing special, I never actually expected him to be after the Khan fight. He just happened to be the first person who could finish Khan off once he had hurt him, Khan had already been hurt on numerous occasions just no one had capitilised on it. Khan was an olympic silver medallist who was telling everyone he could rule the world. No one knew what Prescott would go on to do but that shouldn't matter. He could have been a 15-20-5 journeyman. Either way Prescott continually shouted for him to take the opportunity. (for the payday i'm sure :))
Thanks for mentioning the other fighters who never went after their conquerers, it does in a way undermine my own views to some extent. The only difference being that these guys were fighting more often and against tough guys, and probably were not expected to achieve what they did. Khan rebuilds against guys much smaller, which long term can't help him out.
As I said i'm not saying i'm right in my beliefs but the way Khan goes about things is not what I admire. I may be a bit harsh saying that no matter what he achieves i'll never be a fan.
Let me ask the question: IF (and yes it's a big 'IF') Khan had an awesome chin, how good would he be?
I am not particularly a fan and certainly don't get caught up in the being British thing, but I think as a fighter he has crazy skills. Can't remember too many fighters I have ever seen with speed like that! Offensively I think he is fantastic! His defence and chin will always be his downfall though!
Many fighters could benefit from 'living tough', look at Katsidis. His training camps abroad sounded bruutal, he knew he had to do it in order not to lose his edge. He was considered limited by many but who knows, he may not have achieved half of what he did without the mental toughness and physical fitness he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitTrue enough and another quality post.Losing a fight or 2 or 5 was not the end of a career. Perhaps whats lacking here is poverty. All 3 of the guys mentioned came out of squalor. Khan seems to come from a privileged back ground was put on a pedestal like Harrison and was probably and early millionaire. Celebrity trainers don't help either. Btw I'm no fan of Khan but if he could get his head on straight instead of surrounding himself with yes men and go back to the grind he could change things around. If I were him I'd go find me a trainer in East Philly or something who has trained for 50 years and nobody knows his name. I'd cancel his twitter and fb accounts and not allow the cameras into his camps. Complete and utter re-dedication to his craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyashI understand what you are saying and I'm not saying that i'm right or wrong, it's just my personal thoughts towards Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI can see the point you make and specifically in Khans case it may have helped him when he was against the wall in future fights but they decided not to and as it turns out Prescott has turned out to me essentially a one hit wonder anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyash
Benny Leonard was cold cocked in his first fight and his 12th and then once again in his 16th and 20th and he never rematched any of them except Flemming and he lost that fight also by decision.
Henry Armstrong was laid out in his first fight and lost 2 of his next three but he never bothered to hunt down Al Lovino.
Arguello was knocked out in his 5th fight and then lost to a guy he beat previously right after and he never did seek revenge over Amaya.
Its a good point that the Prescott loss could be haunting him still and that a revenge match may have changed things but those above persevered in spite of early blow outs and went on to become legends.
I know Prescott has turned out to be nothing special, I never actually expected him to be after the Khan fight. He just happened to be the first person who could finish Khan off once he had hurt him, Khan had already been hurt on numerous occasions just no one had capitilised on it. Khan was an olympic silver medallist who was telling everyone he could rule the world. No one knew what Prescott would go on to do but that shouldn't matter. He could have been a 15-20-5 journeyman. Either way Prescott continually shouted for him to take the opportunity. (for the payday i'm sure :))
Thanks for mentioning the other fighters who never went after their conquerers, it does in a way undermine my own views to some extent. The only difference being that these guys were fighting more often and against tough guys, and probably were not expected to achieve what they did. Khan rebuilds against guys much smaller, which long term can't help him out.
As I said i'm not saying i'm right in my beliefs but the way Khan goes about things is not what I admire. I may be a bit harsh saying that no matter what he achieves i'll never be a fan.
Now this might sound gay but Rocky 3 was always my favourite. Apollo Creed took Rocky away from his luxuries and soft living to remind him what it took to be a hungry fighter. I agree with you 100% about cameras in camps, facebook etc but these guys need their egos feeding. It's normal for a lot of these guys to be surrounded by yes men and they probably wouldn't function properly without them.
A loss shouldn't matter but unfortunately it does. If guys were able to fight once a month it wouldn't matter so much as it could be erased from memory with a few quick wins. Khan was a millionaire quickly (either that or was rich very quick) There was a show on Sky sports abut him relatively early and he was driving around in flash cars wearing decent clothes before he had barely made a dent in the pros.
It must be hard when a guy is that young but fighters have to remember what they are and why they do what they do.
How many times have we heard this? Just get a new trainer, box more and work on defense, find a new location, beat up some 'cans or get some better sparring partners to rebuild your confidence, et al. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
You can put lipstick on a pig and put a dress on it, and it's still a fucking pig. Khan is what he is, an over-hyped, solid boxer, who isn't good enough to take it to the elite level, his chin will always betray him.
Its not question of tuffness, he is! Its not a doubtfull chin, he's ok! Its a question of following a game plan that suits his needs best! Its not even about his opponents its way more important to understand your plusses and minuses!! His chin isn't terrible, when you get clipped with a clean shot after you've thrown and are over extended your going to get wobbled or Ko'd! His mistakes are caused by his way of think and that causes him "to react" the wrong way at times. He isn't loosing to poor competition his opponents are good solid fighters!
This young man must re-evaluate sp.) ha! himself and get his personal conceipts in line with what he wants to accomplish in boxing. He needs to combine speed with power but rely on his speed to set up power. He comes to heavy to soon and winds up premature. He has enough pop to get the job done but he needs to concentrate on winning rounds first then his opponent must come to him and that makes his power shots more meaningfull. His approach doesn't match his abilities he needs to think about 10 or 12 rounds and clearly being the dominat boxer that thought process could be the key to him becoming an elite top ten fighter capable of challenging for titles. Ray
Doesn't part of being a great 'boxer' also include having a good defense to go along with it? And isn't being a great 'boxer' about hitting but not being hit? That's why I say, Amir has some decent boxing skills, but he's not a great boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray corso
A fighter can follow a game plan for 11 and a half rounds then get caught and be in trouble and get stopped.
Khan has skills
Khan has speed
Khan has the willingness to step in with top guys
Khan is wiling to have a tear up
But there is something missing definitely. Someone mentioned about somthing in his brain in an earlier post which i sort of understand but whether it's a psychological thing or a weak chin thing doesn't change the fact then when he is on the receiving end of a bomb things start to unravel.
Gameplan?....The best laid plans.....
Alot of people say negative stuff about Khan but in regards to him as a fighter it alwas seems to come down to his chin or lack of. If he had a chin like The Pocket Rocket he would be a machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
His speed is incredible I'll give him that. He could work on his combination punching though, h seems to rely a bit too much on his straight shots without not mixing it up. Not all the time but with a better variety of shots he wouldn't have struggled as he did against Maidana.
But see that's a real fundamental difference. These guys are products of their surroundings and at times we as fans can have unreasonable expectations. Imo if a guy with Khans skills tuned out and got rid of the plastic around him for even a few years he might be a different fighter. Greb fought close to 50 times one year. Today we make a big deal about a guy who fights 5 times a year even if three of them were tomato cans.Then when a fighter has a setback we toss them. Modern day boxing at the high levels is probably the most unforgiving sport on earth. Moore took 800 bucks to Maxims 100,000 for his shot and routinely fought for 10 bucks a fight earlier in his career. To me that's the real difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyashMany fighters could benefit from 'living tough', look at Katsidis. His training camps abroad sounded bruutal, he knew he had to do it in order not to lose his edge. He was considered limited by many but who knows, he may not have achieved half of what he did without the mental toughness and physical fitness he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitTrue enough and another quality post.Losing a fight or 2 or 5 was not the end of a career. Perhaps whats lacking here is poverty. All 3 of the guys mentioned came out of squalor. Khan seems to come from a privileged back ground was put on a pedestal like Harrison and was probably and early millionaire. Celebrity trainers don't help either. Btw I'm no fan of Khan but if he could get his head on straight instead of surrounding himself with yes men and go back to the grind he could change things around. If I were him I'd go find me a trainer in East Philly or something who has trained for 50 years and nobody knows his name. I'd cancel his twitter and fb accounts and not allow the cameras into his camps. Complete and utter re-dedication to his craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyashI understand what you are saying and I'm not saying that i'm right or wrong, it's just my personal thoughts towards Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI can see the point you make and specifically in Khans case it may have helped him when he was against the wall in future fights but they decided not to and as it turns out Prescott has turned out to me essentially a one hit wonder anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyash
Benny Leonard was cold cocked in his first fight and his 12th and then once again in his 16th and 20th and he never rematched any of them except Flemming and he lost that fight also by decision.
Henry Armstrong was laid out in his first fight and lost 2 of his next three but he never bothered to hunt down Al Lovino.
Arguello was knocked out in his 5th fight and then lost to a guy he beat previously right after and he never did seek revenge over Amaya.
Its a good point that the Prescott loss could be haunting him still and that a revenge match may have changed things but those above persevered in spite of early blow outs and went on to become legends.
I know Prescott has turned out to be nothing special, I never actually expected him to be after the Khan fight. He just happened to be the first person who could finish Khan off once he had hurt him, Khan had already been hurt on numerous occasions just no one had capitilised on it. Khan was an olympic silver medallist who was telling everyone he could rule the world. No one knew what Prescott would go on to do but that shouldn't matter. He could have been a 15-20-5 journeyman. Either way Prescott continually shouted for him to take the opportunity. (for the payday i'm sure :))
Thanks for mentioning the other fighters who never went after their conquerers, it does in a way undermine my own views to some extent. The only difference being that these guys were fighting more often and against tough guys, and probably were not expected to achieve what they did. Khan rebuilds against guys much smaller, which long term can't help him out.
As I said i'm not saying i'm right in my beliefs but the way Khan goes about things is not what I admire. I may be a bit harsh saying that no matter what he achieves i'll never be a fan.
Now this might sound gay but Rocky 3 was always my favourite. Apollo Creed took Rocky away from his luxuries and soft living to remind him what it took to be a hungry fighter. I agree with you 100% about cameras in camps, facebook etc but these guys need their egos feeding. It's normal for a lot of these guys to be surrounded by yes men and they probably wouldn't function properly without them.
A loss shouldn't matter but unfortunately it does. If guys were able to fight once a month it wouldn't matter so much as it could be erased from memory with a few quick wins. Khan was a millionaire quickly (either that or was rich very quick) There was a show on Sky sports abut him relatively early and he was driving around in flash cars wearing decent clothes before he had barely made a dent in the pros.
It must be hard when a guy is that young but fighters have to remember what they are and why they do what they do.
I'm not talking about musical chairs with celebrity trainers whose student/teacher ratio is about as good as a university tutorial. I'm talking an environmental change which includes an Eddie Futch like trainer still working at some gym in some inner city eating pork and beans out of a can. A complete refit. I also know that such is not going to happen and he will most likely be an ink blot on a historical database listing title holders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axHow many times have we heard this? Just get a new trainer, box more and work on defense, find a new location, beat up some 'cans or get some better sparring partners to rebuild your confidence, et al. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
You can put lipstick on a pig and put a dress on it, and it's still a fucking pig. Khan is what he is, an over-hyped, solid boxer, who isn't good enough to take it to the elite level, his chin will always betray him.
I'm not a fan of Khan but am fast becoming one just because of the way he is being crucified. Again go have a look at Benny Leonards first 25 fights. Talk about chinless. I actually think that the chin thing overall in boxing is extremely overplayed. I also think fighters today are to easily dismissed.
I get that completely. Boxing wouldn't be able to exist nowadays with fighters in action so often, Big fights are such big events that they need building up, it wouldn't be possible to fight a lot more than they do. I wouldn't want to see fighters sacrifice their health for my entertainment. Only point I was making was that some fighters nowadays spend as long being celebs as they do fighters. I know fighters are products of their surroundings, back in the 'old' days fighters fought as often because they had to if they wanted to get anywhere and they wanted to make ends meet.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitBut see that's a real fundamental difference. These guys are products of their surroundings and at times we as fans can have unreasonable expectations. Imo if a guy with Khans skills tuned out and got rid of the plastic around him for even a few years he might be a different fighter. Greb fought close to 50 times one year. Today we make a big deal about a guy who fights 5 times a year even if three of them were tomato cans.Then when a fighter has a setback we toss them. Modern day boxing at the high levels is probably the most unforgiving sport on earth. Moore took 800 bucks to Maxims 100,000 for his shot and routinely fought for 10 bucks a fight earlier in his career. To me that's the real difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyashMany fighters could benefit from 'living tough', look at Katsidis. His training camps abroad sounded bruutal, he knew he had to do it in order not to lose his edge. He was considered limited by many but who knows, he may not have achieved half of what he did without the mental toughness and physical fitness he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitTrue enough and another quality post.Losing a fight or 2 or 5 was not the end of a career. Perhaps whats lacking here is poverty. All 3 of the guys mentioned came out of squalor. Khan seems to come from a privileged back ground was put on a pedestal like Harrison and was probably and early millionaire. Celebrity trainers don't help either. Btw I'm no fan of Khan but if he could get his head on straight instead of surrounding himself with yes men and go back to the grind he could change things around. If I were him I'd go find me a trainer in East Philly or something who has trained for 50 years and nobody knows his name. I'd cancel his twitter and fb accounts and not allow the cameras into his camps. Complete and utter re-dedication to his craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyashI understand what you are saying and I'm not saying that i'm right or wrong, it's just my personal thoughts towards Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI can see the point you make and specifically in Khans case it may have helped him when he was against the wall in future fights but they decided not to and as it turns out Prescott has turned out to me essentially a one hit wonder anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by armyash
Benny Leonard was cold cocked in his first fight and his 12th and then once again in his 16th and 20th and he never rematched any of them except Flemming and he lost that fight also by decision.
Henry Armstrong was laid out in his first fight and lost 2 of his next three but he never bothered to hunt down Al Lovino.
Arguello was knocked out in his 5th fight and then lost to a guy he beat previously right after and he never did seek revenge over Amaya.
Its a good point that the Prescott loss could be haunting him still and that a revenge match may have changed things but those above persevered in spite of early blow outs and went on to become legends.
I know Prescott has turned out to be nothing special, I never actually expected him to be after the Khan fight. He just happened to be the first person who could finish Khan off once he had hurt him, Khan had already been hurt on numerous occasions just no one had capitilised on it. Khan was an olympic silver medallist who was telling everyone he could rule the world. No one knew what Prescott would go on to do but that shouldn't matter. He could have been a 15-20-5 journeyman. Either way Prescott continually shouted for him to take the opportunity. (for the payday i'm sure :))
Thanks for mentioning the other fighters who never went after their conquerers, it does in a way undermine my own views to some extent. The only difference being that these guys were fighting more often and against tough guys, and probably were not expected to achieve what they did. Khan rebuilds against guys much smaller, which long term can't help him out.
As I said i'm not saying i'm right in my beliefs but the way Khan goes about things is not what I admire. I may be a bit harsh saying that no matter what he achieves i'll never be a fan.
Now this might sound gay but Rocky 3 was always my favourite. Apollo Creed took Rocky away from his luxuries and soft living to remind him what it took to be a hungry fighter. I agree with you 100% about cameras in camps, facebook etc but these guys need their egos feeding. It's normal for a lot of these guys to be surrounded by yes men and they probably wouldn't function properly without them.
A loss shouldn't matter but unfortunately it does. If guys were able to fight once a month it wouldn't matter so much as it could be erased from memory with a few quick wins. Khan was a millionaire quickly (either that or was rich very quick) There was a show on Sky sports abut him relatively early and he was driving around in flash cars wearing decent clothes before he had barely made a dent in the pros.
It must be hard when a guy is that young but fighters have to remember what they are and why they do what they do.