Give Bernard Hopkins his just due!

Ya know?

We started a thread on Larry Holmes, and everyone started to rant off on how he was a whiney and bitter old man- never happy, always bitchin' about how he never got his just due because of Ali's dominance. (even worse now since we enjoyed Tyson shortly after him...)

But we have also slighted Bernard Hopkins. Not only is he the oldest man to ever win a championship title, breaking his own record, but he was also THEE FIRST to unify the WBA, WBC, IBF AND WBO belts holding them all simultaneously.

Also, he is the longest reigning middleweight champion EVER, with a career spanning 10 years as a title holder. Who in the world can beat that record at that weight?

You see? Bernard Hopkins has continually been overshadowed because of the glitz and glamorous nature oft he division- division with the likes of Ray Leonard, Ray Robinson, Hagler, Hearns, Roy Jones Jr., Tito Trinidad, Monzon, Minter... and the list goes on and on.

He has particularly been overshadowed by the flashier Roy Jones Jr. and due to his loss to RJJ at their "prime" level. But Hopkins has shown us that being a champion is not about prime age, it's about being a champion!!!

He did beat RJJ in the rematch YEARS later, after RJJ got ko'd twice already in brutal fashion.

While we also like Calzaghe, Bernard did slightly a little more WITHOUT the unbeaten record.
:cool:

Let's not let B-Hop be bitted by us not recognizing him for all he has done, feats that can never be broken in this lifetime ever again.

Yes, B-Hop bee's a legend, now please just retire and get your front teeth capped.

I've already said all I'm going to about Mr. Hopkins.

*if Hopkins was more entertaining... he'd be a hero.. BUt it's the way he won. Sure, he's a HOF'er... a legend..? more like a myth...

the flops... If u watch when Hopkins floped against Roy Jones in their 2nd fight...man,it's ridiculous. He really wanted the ref to dq Jones... it's not what "LEGENDS" do... the flops against Chad Dawson..Hopkins initiats the ruff-housing and flops when it's returned...

the headbutts and cheap-shots..the holding... it's legendary how he got away with it all these years.

don't get me wrong..he can fight... but it's all the crap he did instead of fighting... it's like eating an expensive t-bone steak with a $3 bottle of wine... it doesn't go down well.

Hopkins is a legend but I was not happy with his antics of pretending to be hit low against Galzaghe.

He is a great fighter,but wish he would do more fighting instead of his stupid antics.
Rolling around on the floor , claiming low blows, and his head butting,and he can be
a boring fighter,apart from that he is a superb fighter.;D

How he keeps beating these young, undefeated, athletic, strong, seasoned world champions is truly amazing.

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Originally Posted by Master

How he keeps beating these young, undefeated, athletic, strong, seasoned world champions is truly amazing.

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*i agree..there's greatness in what he does. Have u ever heard him talk boxing? Not the ESPN stuff, but BOXING. The guy can talk hours on movement alone. It really is facinating. There really is something to note when young fighters can't touch u.. Is it fan freindly? No..but it is fascinating.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by Master

How he keeps beating these young, undefeated, athletic, strong, seasoned world champions is truly amazing.

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*i agree..there's greatness in what he does. Have u ever heard him talk boxing? Not the ESPN stuff, but BOXING. The guy can talk hours on movement alone. It really is facinating. There really is something to note when young fighters can't touch u.. Is it fan freindly? No..but it is fascinating.

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He is very knowledgeable, he could make a good trainer if he hangs up the gloves.

He lives boxing , there is nothing he does not know about the game.What he is achieving
is really incredible.

What is his next big challenge?

Hopkins is a legend and totally fine with being the bad guy and pissing people off.

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Originally Posted by Master

What is his next big challenge?

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Run for President.
:D

After it is all said and done, the record will relfect B-Hop's achievment over all other middleweights.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

What is his next big challenge?

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Run for President.
:D

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I was thinking rematch Dawson, Cleverly, Ward, moving up to Cruiserweight,

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

What is his next big challenge?

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Run for President.
:D

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I was thinking rematch Dawson, Cleverly, Ward, moving up to Cruiserweight,

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Good for him, but not for us. I have no appetite for B-Hop. Seriously. lololol... he's a great champion and fighter, but he really isn't must-see-tv!! Ya know?
:p

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

What is his next big challenge?

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Run for President.
:D

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I was thinking rematch Dawson, Cleverly, Ward, moving up to Cruiserweight,

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Good for him, but not for us. I have no appetite for B-Hop. Seriously. lololol... he's a great champion and fighter, but he really isn't must-see-tv!! Ya know?
:p

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Everyone watches to see if age will catch up with him.

Anyone who is winning world titles when they're damn near 50 is a legend in my book.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

After it is all said and done, the record will relfect B-Hop's achievment over all other middleweights.

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*Oh ,i don't think so... it'll show his relevance i the game over a long period of time... Hop's "greatness" is something that was never really spoken until he moved up in weight and fighting Tarver.. Cal.. Dawson... etc... as a middleweight, he was a good fighter fiesting on small game. When it mattered, he fell short.. Taylor beat him twice... Roy jones ...

Hop is a better fighter now than he ever was as a middleweight..JMHO

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

What is his next big challenge?

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Run for President.
:D

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I was thinking rematch Dawson, Cleverly, Ward, moving up to Cruiserweight,

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Good for him, but not for us. I have no appetite for B-Hop. Seriously. lololol... he's a great champion and fighter, but he really isn't must-see-tv!! Ya know?
:p

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Everyone watches to see if age will catch up with him.

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Then they are all sickos!
;D

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Originally Posted by Master

What is his next big challenge?

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Rumor has it that he wants to fight Cleverly in the U.K. And yes BHop is bad mofo, dirty fighter or not.

All time biggest bore in boxing! He gets in great shape for ANY age and should be noted that his latest wins are impressive for his age but he hand picks his opponents and knows they can't catch up to him! The guys a bore, never beat anyone of note! His best opponents beat him!!!
Is Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson or an "Overated" Calzaghe great fighters? They all beat him and Roy beat him square up when they were young! This guy comes to "spoil" not fight!!! Ray.

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Originally Posted by ray corso

All time biggest bore in boxing! He gets in great shape for ANY age and should be noted that his latest wins are impressive for his age but he hand picks his opponents and knows they can't catch up to him! The guys a bore, never beat anyone of note! His best opponents beat him!!!
Is Jermain Taylor or Chad Dawson or an "Overated" Calzaghe great fighters? They all beat him and Roy beat him square up when they were young! This guy comes to "spoil" not fight!!! Ray.

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Glen Johnson, Oscar DLH, Tito Trinidad, William Joppy, Howard Eastman, Kelly Pavlik, Jean Pascal, were all bums?

I thinks not! Actually, his record of who's who in his first 30 is far superior than RJJ's first 30. Let's not even talk about RJJ's last 25!

The best mentally prepared fighter i have ever witnessed. He truly knows his style and what his opponent brings. Understands timing, reach, space and how much energy to use and when to use it and when to conserve it. His style can be slow at times so the excitement is not their most of the time. For a casual fan his style is not that special but i love the little things he does that allows him to take advantage of less technical fighters. Maybe im a bore but sometimes i dissect his fights minute by minute. He truly is the master of his style. But i can understand why some people dont like his style. Not very fan friendly but i LOVE it. Technically sound fighter. Thats is the only way u can last to fight at age 48.

First of all the fighters you mentioned were NOT great fighters, as to "bums" thats your impression not mine. I never used the words bums!!! If Eastman and Joppy and Pascal are great what the hell was Hagler or LoMatta??? Is everyone "great" these days????
If he's great theres Ward at 168 or 75 and I'll bet GGG will let him weigh 180 for a shot! Now Hopkins isn't doing any of that and he's welcomed to pick and choose. However the "great" status goes to great fighters which he is NOT! He is not an ATG at middleweight or LtHvy and I doubt he's a top twenty-five rate in either class!

Smart, Yes! Taking advantage of boxing demiss, Yes!
Great well rounded boxer, No! tremendous puncher, No!

He's good, he's slick & well schooled! He takes no chances because he's already picked his opponent and knows he won't have to! He's alot smarter than most fans thats for sure! HA!! Ray.

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Originally Posted by ray corso

First of all the fighters you mentioned were NOT great fighters, as to "bums" thats your impression not mine. I never used the words bums!!! If Eastman and Joppy and Pascal are great what the hell was Hagler or LoMatta??? Is everyone "great" these days????
If he's great theres Ward at 168 or 75 and I'll bet GGG will let him weigh 180 for a shot! Now Hopkins isn't doing any of that and he's welcomed to pick and choose. However the "great" status goes to great fighters which he is NOT! He is not an ATG at middleweight or LtHvy and I doubt he's a top twenty-five rate in either class!

Smart, Yes! Taking advantage of boxing demiss, Yes!
Great well rounded boxer, No! tremendous puncher, No!

He's good, he's slick & well schooled! He takes no chances because he's already picked his opponent and knows he won't have to! He's alot smarter than most fans thats for sure! HA!! Ray.

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You said he didn't beat anyone of note- all of those names, during that era, not to mention Antwun Echols and Simon Brown, were all solid fighters who could win on any given night.

Everyone had their one or two defining fights. Haggler had two- Sugar Ray and Hearns, even beating Duran at that age was kinda of not in character.

So, don't piss on the man for his achievments! He won- it's like Lebron fans hating on Kobe Bryant.

[QUOTE=ykdadamaja;1145486]

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Originally Posted by ray corso

You said he didn't beat anyone of note- all of those names, during that era, not to mention Antwun Echols and Simon Brown, were all solid fighters who could win on any given night.

Everyone had their one or two defining fights. Haggler had two- Sugar Ray and Hearns, even beating Duran at that age was kinda of not in character.

So, don't piss on the man for his achievments! He won- it's like Lebron fans hating on Kobe Bryant.

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*Whoa!...ur comparing Simon Brown and Antwan Echols to Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns... u should be ashamed of urself.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

After it is all said and done, the record will relfect B-Hop's achievment over all other middleweights.

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*Oh ,i don't think so... it'll show his relevance i the game over a long period of time... Hop's "greatness" is something that was never really spoken until he moved up in weight and fighting Tarver.. Cal.. Dawson... etc... as a middleweight, he was a good fighter fiesting on small game. When it mattered, he fell short.. Taylor beat him twice... Roy jones ...

Hop is a better fighter now than he ever was as a middleweight..JMHO

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Hopkins never had a middleweight division full of stellar competition but I'd say he had the opportunity to show how good he was after he left more so then he turned into a better fighter.
He still made 20 title defenses and dominated a division for a decade. And during that run he would have been a handful for any middleweight in history. Its not his fault that many of his opponents were weaker anymore then it is Wlads or was Calzaghes.

I don't think its fair to keep on claiming that he beat smaller men. Tito was a huge welterweight and walked around an in shape 170 pounds. Hopkins fought at the same weight on fight night that he weighed in at a day before.He was a natural middleweight just as Floyd is a natural welter and so far the only undisputed champion of this century. You never hear about Monzon feasting on x welterweights.

When you think about what he has done, how he did it and the when its nothing short of unbelievable. He's like a modern day Archie Moore. Sure he looks a little sloppy and yet once again just schooled Cloud.

I think Hopkins may actually surpass Moores active record.

*Hopkins beat alot of decent B fighters as a middleweight...that's it. I'm not sure how many defences.., but name one HOF'er... DeLaHoya and Tito were small guys trying to make the fight cuz Hopkins being Hopkins, wouldn't budge... BUT,that's the truth.

Hopkins has made his name beating B fighters... every name fighter he fought, he lost to... Cal..Roy Jones.. Dawson...

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*Hopkins beat alot of decent B fighters as a middleweight...that's it. I'm not sure how many defences.., but name one HOF'er... DeLaHoya and Tito were small guys trying to make the fight cuz Hopkins being Hopkins, wouldn't budge... BUT,that's the truth.

Hopkins has made his name beating B fighters... every name fighter he fought, he lost to... Cal..Roy Jones.. Dawson...

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Unfortunatley for Hopkins he couldn't dig up the prime corpses of a Hagler or Hearns and that cannot be held against him. You play the hand you are dealt. He beat, literally, every Ring ranked middleweight as a champion save for a Swede. What did he fail in the big picture to do that the same Jones, Calzaghe etc did? He beat up a run of mandatorys just as Roy. Joe beat up a shot ghost in Roy, and had a debatable win over Hopkins...feel free to hang your hat on that if ya want. He cleaned out a division...then he jumped up and set records then broke them. Tito was a legitimate middle after thrashing Joppy from pillar to post and a heavy favorite v Hopkins and that fight alone was being billed as the best middle unification since a Hagler-Leonard. Literally. And being honest Dawson is but a name in his own household but the fact is we are talking about Bernard before, during and after him now. Dawson had to twice fight guys who Hopkins literally dominated but once.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

After it is all said and done, the record will relfect B-Hop's achievment over all other middleweights.

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*Oh ,i don't think so... it'll show his relevance i the game over a long period of time... Hop's "greatness" is something that was never really spoken until he moved up in weight and fighting Tarver.. Cal.. Dawson... etc... as a middleweight, he was a good fighter fiesting on small game. When it mattered, he fell short.. Taylor beat him twice... Roy jones ...

Hop is a better fighter now than he ever was as a middleweight..JMHO

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Hopkins never had a middleweight division full of stellar competition but I'd say he had the opportunity to show how good he was after he left more so then he turned into a better fighter.
He still made 20 title defenses and dominated a division for a decade. And during that run he would have been a handful for any middleweight in history. Its not his fault that many of his opponents anymore then it is Wlads or was Calzaghes.

I don't think its fair to keep on claiming that he beat smaller men. Tito was a huge welterweight and walked around an in shape 170 pounds. Hopkins fought at the same weight on fight night that he weighed in at a day before.He was a natural middleweight just as Floyd is a natural welter and so far the only undisputed champion of this century. You never hear about Monzon feasting on x welterweights.

When you think about what he has done, how he did it and the when its nothing short of unbelievable. He's like a modern day Archie Moore. Sure he looks a little sloppy and yet once again just schooled Cloud.

I think Hopkins may actually surpass Moores active record.

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I don't think Hagler or Hearns could have kept up with Hopkins pressure. Call me a heretic if you wish!!!

Pressure???? What pressure, the guy runs he doesn't apply any pressure at all!

Hagler would hunt him down, it may well take all of 10 rounds to do it but Hopkins is no Hagler.
Ray.

People shit on Bhop for whipping smaller guys, but then say he isn't on Hagler's level, a guy who is most famous for his fights with 3 smaller guys who had moved up to middleweight (KO'd Hearns, was given BIG trouble by former LW champ Duran, and then obviously lost to Ray Leonard who hadn't fought for 3 years prior to their fight).

I see a bit of a double standard there, no?

Bernard has been fighting for 25 years professionally, he's now 48 years old, and we've NEVER seen him get his ass kicked. We've never seen him outclassed. He's lost 6 times in that span, ALL decisions, only 2 of which were unanimous (and one of those is controversial). Four SD's and MD's, most of which were also controversial.

Nobody has ever looked good against Hopkins. Nobody has ever beat him up. And for those of you who say his opposition has been crap... you're crazy. He's fought a ton of killers. People love to go on about the virtues of guys like Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Duran... well, besides themselves, how many other great fighters did they fight? They fought some tough opposition, and they also fought a lot of forgettable names like anyone else.

Point being, championship boxing is a shark tank, and you don't get to stay in Bhops spot for so long without being great, especially at his age.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Bernard has been fighting for 25 years professionally, he's now 48 years old, and we've NEVER seen him get his ass kicked. We've never seen him outclassed. He's lost 6 times in that span, ALL decisions, only 2 of which were unanimous (and one of those is controversial). Four SD's and MD's, most of which were also controversial.

Nobody has ever looked good against Hopkins. Nobody has ever beat him up. And for those of you who say his opposition has been crap... you're crazy. He's fought a ton of killers. People love to go on about the virtues of guys like Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Duran... well, besides themselves, how many other great fighters did they fight? They fought some tough opposition, and they also fought a lot of forgettable names like anyone else.

Point being, championship boxing is a shark tank, and you don't get to stay in Bhops spot for so long without being great, especially at his age.

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Exactly. He is a real warrior champion!
;D

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

[COLOR="darkred
Hopkins has made his name beating B fighters... every name fighter he fought, he lost to... Cal..Roy Jones.. Dawson... [/COLOR]

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Unfortunatley for Hopkins he couldn't dig up the prime corpses of a Hagler or Hearns and that cannot be held against him. You play the hand you are dealt. He beat, literally, every Ring ranked middleweight as a champion save for a Swede. What did he fail in the big picture to do that the same Jones, Calzaghe etc did? He beat up a run of mandatorys just as Roy. Joe beat up a shot ghost in Roy, and had a debatable win over Hopkins...feel free to hang your hat on that if ya want. He cleaned out a division...then he jumped up and set records then broke them. Tito was a legitimate middle after thrashing Joppy from pillar to post and a heavy favorite v Hopkins and that fight alone was being billed as the best middle unification since a Hagler-Leonard. Literally. And being honest Dawson is but a name in his own household but the fact is we are talking about Bernard before, during and after him now. Dawson had to twice fight guys who Hopkins literally dominated but once.

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*If u think Tito was a legitimate middleweight... then nothing i say will make a difference.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

[COLOR="darkred
Hopkins has made his name beating B fighters... every name fighter he fought, he lost to... Cal..Roy Jones.. Dawson... [/COLOR]

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Unfortunatley for Hopkins he couldn't dig up the prime corpses of a Hagler or Hearns and that cannot be held against him. You play the hand you are dealt. He beat, literally, every Ring ranked middleweight as a champion save for a Swede. What did he fail in the big picture to do that the same Jones, Calzaghe etc did? He beat up a run of mandatorys just as Roy. Joe beat up a shot ghost in Roy, and had a debatable win over Hopkins...feel free to hang your hat on that if ya want. He cleaned out a division...then he jumped up and set records then broke them. Tito was a legitimate middle after thrashing Joppy from pillar to post and a heavy favorite v Hopkins and that fight alone was being billed as the best middle unification since a Hagler-Leonard. Literally. And being honest Dawson is but a name in his own household but the fact is we are talking about Bernard before, during and after him now. Dawson had to twice fight guys who Hopkins literally dominated but once.

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*If u think Tito was a legitimate middleweight... then nothing i say will make a difference.

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Ask Joppy if Tito was a middlewieght. ;)

The guy is a living legend. I think he's probably on drugs now, but that's besides the point.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Bernard has been fighting for 25 years professionally, he's now 48 years old, and we've NEVER seen him get his ass kicked. We've never seen him outclassed. He's lost 6 times in that span, ALL decisions, only 2 of which were unanimous (and one of those is controversial). Four SD's and MD's, most of which were also controversial.

Nobody has ever looked good against Hopkins. Nobody has ever beat him up. And for those of you who say his opposition has been crap... you're crazy. He's fought a ton of killers. People love to go on about the virtues of guys like Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Duran... well, besides themselves, how many other great fighters did they fight? They fought some tough opposition, and they also fought a lot of forgettable names like anyone else.

Point being, championship boxing is a shark tank, and you don't get to stay in Bhops spot for so long without being great, especially at his age.

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This is all very true

;D

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

What is his next big challenge?

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Run for President.
:D

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