So where do you rank them now. I think both just have to be in the top 10. I have rigo at 5 or 6 and Donaire at 8 .
your views?
(both should be ahead of Broner ) :cool:
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So where do you rank them now. I think both just have to be in the top 10. I have rigo at 5 or 6 and Donaire at 8 .
your views?
(both should be ahead of Broner ) :cool:
so many views and no response? Come on boxing fans
Rigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
I agree with you. Each man has done more in the ring than Broner has. Donaire shouldn't fall out of the top 10 just due to one loss to another super talent in Guillermo Rigondeaux.
Come on man, Rigo dominated Donaire , and there wasn't anything that showed that there would be a different result in a rematch. How can a dominated Donaire be higher than Rigo.? My point - both are elite fighters. Rigo is amazing , and Donaire is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosRigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
I said that Rigo would win, but Donaire didn't seem up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645Come on man, Rigo dominated Donaire , and there wasn't anything that showed that there would be a different result in a rematch. How can a dominated Donaire be higher than Rigo.? My point - both are elite fighters. Rigo is amazing , and Donaire is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosRigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
But I refuse to say a boxer with 12 fights should be higher than Broner who has more than double his fights at 10 years younger!
Chavez Jr. is a young fella and has more fights than both so shouldn't he be higher ? ;D;)Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI said that Rigo would win, but Donaire didn't seem up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645Come on man, Rigo dominated Donaire , and there wasn't anything that showed that there would be a different result in a rematch. How can a dominated Donaire be higher than Rigo.? My point - both are elite fighters. Rigo is amazing , and Donaire is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosRigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
But I refuse to say a boxer with 12 fights should be higher than Broner who has more than double his fights at 10 years younger!
Chavez is in my top 10. Klitschko and Guererro are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkChavez Jr. is a young fella and has more fights than both so shouldn't he be higher ? ;D;)Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI said that Rigo would win, but Donaire didn't seem up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645Come on man, Rigo dominated Donaire , and there wasn't anything that showed that there would be a different result in a rematch. How can a dominated Donaire be higher than Rigo.? My point - both are elite fighters. Rigo is amazing , and Donaire is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosRigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
But I refuse to say a boxer with 12 fights should be higher than Broner who has more than double his fights at 10 years younger!
I see your reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI said that Rigo would win, but Donaire didn't seem up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645Come on man, Rigo dominated Donaire , and there wasn't anything that showed that there would be a different result in a rematch. How can a dominated Donaire be higher than Rigo.? My point - both are elite fighters. Rigo is amazing , and Donaire is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosRigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
But I refuse to say a boxer with 12 fights should be higher than Broner who has more than double his fights at 10 years younger!
For 1- Rigo has had an amazing amatuer career that somewhat ups his pro career
for 2 - broner has never fought a guy as good as Donaire
for 3 - Broner should have lost to Ponce
for 4- Rigo looks much more skilled than Broner
for 5- put Rigo at LWW and Broner at LWW - Rigo would win no doubt
I tend to agree. Donaire around 10 and Rigo around 5 (despite having just 12 pro fights).
How the fuck is Chavez in your top 10. P4P is suppose to neglect weight and just account for skill. Chavez refuses to fight anyone near his size. Nowhere near a p4p fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosChavez is in my top 10. Klitschko and Guererro are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkChavez Jr. is a young fella and has more fights than both so shouldn't he be higher ? ;D;)Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI said that Rigo would win, but Donaire didn't seem up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645Come on man, Rigo dominated Donaire , and there wasn't anything that showed that there would be a different result in a rematch. How can a dominated Donaire be higher than Rigo.? My point - both are elite fighters. Rigo is amazing , and Donaire is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosRigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
But I refuse to say a boxer with 12 fights should be higher than Broner who has more than double his fights at 10 years younger!
My top 10 would be
Mayweather
Martinez
JMM
Ward
Broner
Rigo
Wlad
Matthysse
Mikey Garcia
GGG
I think Donaire was found out and can no longer be in the top 10. Pac been too inactive and lost last 2 to stay in top 10
I think for sure it enters Rigo into the boxing consciousness, but we can't put him top 10 p4p on just ONE win IMO. But with another couple of good wins, he definitely does enter into the discussion
Donaire is still in my top ten, Boxing fans seem to be far too fickle and then they complain why the best never seem to fight each other. Well lo and behold in the mirror and there's your problem. Rigo beat one great boxer I want to see him beat Mares too before I put him in top 10 p4p and this is coming from someone who bet on Rigo to win the fight.
#1 Ward... he's fought and beaten evry majior fighter in his weight class and domianted Dawson...
#2 JMM... his KO over Pac had alot of weight. He did something no one could do.
#3 Mayweather... Too inactive drops him .
#4 Wlad Klitsko... over 10 title defences in a row... litterally cleaned out the div.
#5 Martinez... lack of comp lately... still, he's a solid p4p'er.
#6 Froch... His convincing KO over Bute... this guys a stud,,rematch with Kessler should b a barn burner..Froch could win it.
#7 Manny Pac... still the most dangerous man in boxing.
#8 Vitali needs to fight more..too much inactivity... but no one can beat him.
#9 Danny Garcia... Devastating Ko's over Khan and Morales... undefeated.
#10 Mikey Garcia... i called this guy a stud 2 years ago... has the talent to clean out div.
Rigo should take Donaires position.
Danny Garcia, Vitali and Froch. Very poor top 10 in my opinion. Froch beat Bute but that's it. Lost to Kessler lost to Ward. No way a P4P fighter. If he looks good and beats kess maybe you could slot him in at 10. Vitali looked shit against Chisora. He isn't that good anymore and is no longer top P4P. Danny Garcia beat an ancient Morales, caught Khan with a freak punch. No way is he a P4P top 10. He's not even number 1 in his division. Pac looks past it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
Explain JMM ahead of Money??? Do you seriously think Marquez would win if they fought this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeDanny Garcia, Vitali and Froch. Very poor top 10 in my opinion. Froch beat Bute but that's it. Lost to Kessler lost to Ward. No way a P4P fighter. If he looks good and beats kess maybe you could slot him in at 10. Vitali looked shit against Chisora. He isn't that good anymore and is no longer top P4P. Danny Garcia beat an ancient Morales, caught Khan with a freak punch. No way is he a P4P top 10. He's not even number 1 in his division. Pac looks past it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
* ur missing the whole point... u don't appoint fighters to top 10 p4p... u can't just put Rigo in there cuz he beat one fighter... u can't have May ahead of everyone cuz u think he would win...what have u done to be in the p4p list..that's how it goes...Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeExplain JMM ahead of Money??? Do you seriously think Marquez would win if they fought this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeDanny Garcia, Vitali and Froch. Very poor top 10 in my opinion. Froch beat Bute but that's it. Lost to Kessler lost to Ward. No way a P4P fighter. If he looks good and beats kess maybe you could slot him in at 10. Vitali looked shit against Chisora. He isn't that good anymore and is no longer top P4P. Danny Garcia beat an ancient Morales, caught Khan with a freak punch. No way is he a P4P top 10. He's not even number 1 in his division. Pac looks past it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
vitali hasn't lost in years... cuz u don't like the way he fights doesn't mean shit... has he kept winning... Vitali should be on everyones top 10..that's not even in question.
Froch had beaten Arthur Abrham when abrahanm was still a bad ass..then beat Glen Johnson when Johnson was still a badass... a loss to Ward shouldn't drop him too far..no one can beat him..then he beats Bute, an undefeated fighter and follows up with a KO of Mack..he's a solid #5
Danny Garcia is a fuken monster... no doubt he's a top 10...
U have Mathese and Broner..what the hell have they done and who have they beaten?
P4p is one of the most overused, overrated, meaningless terms in modern day boxing history. By that I mean the last 15 to 20 years. You can count the natural weight fighters on one hand. As you can those that moved out of the comfort zone. Many fighters today are fighting at least a division outside of where they should be. That is not p4p. P4p is Armstrong fighting Barney Ross after drinking a small lake to appear bigger on the scales and weighing 133 for a welter title. P4p is Harry Greb fighting Tunney or Robinson fighting Maxim. P4p today is a fast food drive through.
Right I'm not gonna both arguing here because I'm never gonna see things your way. P4P for me is a list if you took weight out of the equation would beat another fighter. Your argument for Broner and Matthysse not being in there could be applied to Danny Garcia and Mikey Garcia. Your argument against having Rigo in there pretty much contradicts your argument for Danny Garcia and your claims of Froch bearing a badass Glen Johnson. Seriously cop on. Abraham was never that good to start with.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug* ur missing the whole point... u don't appoint fighters to top 10 p4p... u can't just put Rigo in there cuz he beat one fighter... u can't have May ahead of everyone cuz u think he would win...what have u done to be in the p4p list..that's how it goes...Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeExplain JMM ahead of Money??? Do you seriously think Marquez would win if they fought this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeDanny Garcia, Vitali and Froch. Very poor top 10 in my opinion. Froch beat Bute but that's it. Lost to Kessler lost to Ward. No way a P4P fighter. If he looks good and beats kess maybe you could slot him in at 10. Vitali looked shit against Chisora. He isn't that good anymore and is no longer top P4P. Danny Garcia beat an ancient Morales, caught Khan with a freak punch. No way is he a P4P top 10. He's not even number 1 in his division. Pac looks past it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
vitali hasn't lost in years... cuz u don't like the way he fights doesn't mean shit... has he kept winning... Vitali should be on everyones top 10..that's not even in question.
Froch had beaten Arthur Abrham when abrahanm was still a bad ass..then beat Glen Johnson when Johnson was still a badass... a loss to Ward shouldn't drop him too far..no one can beat him..then he beats Bute, an undefeated fighter and follows up with a KO of Mack..he's a solid #5
Danny Garcia is a fuken monster... no doubt he's a top 10...
U have Mathese and Broner..what the hell have they done and who have they beaten?
Both Garcias have been fighting better opposition everytime they fight... both r undefeated and both world champions... how can u compare Mathese, who is good, but lost to Judah, a top 10...How can u give Broner ,who conssitantly cherry picks his opponents while talking smack. Bronner had a chance to back his mouth up but decided to skip the 140 div.
ALSO, u can't say"Arthur Abraham was never any good" when he was kicking ass when Froch beat him... Now we see him as a lesser fighter, but then, he was p4p... and if u don't think Glen Johnson is dangerous... then i don't what to say to u.
u know.. u can have whatever top 10 u want... i feel im wasting time.
U are wastin your time cz u are talking shite. Garcia has fought Khan and an old Morales. That is not better then what Matthysse has been fighting who was robbed in his to defeats so to me he's an unbeaten fighter but you probably haven't seen the fights. Also Garcias gonna vacate his belt after he takes on Judah to avoid Matthysse. He's also ducking a khan rematch. Mikey has beaten decent fighters in his last 2 fights but before that noone if note and the last to we're ageing horribly.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
Abraham was never that good at super middleweight. He lost all his career defining fights and Johnson was dangerous in the 90s.
Broner and Rigo have done a lot more the Borg Garcias. Rigos pretty much unified the division and Broners a 2 weight champ soon to become 3.
Seriously watch fights before you comment on them and don't just look at boxrec
If Mayweather isn't your #1 p4p, your list has serious issues.
If Rigo is in your top 10, your list has serious issues.
If Wlad isn't in your top 10, your list has serious issues.
Rigo just strolled past Donaire who was number 4 in a lot of people's P4P list. He unified a world title in 12 fights. I think he's unbeatable at his weight, no one will fight him. I can't see an argument for him not being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Wlad has cleared out his division and has been unbeaten in 9 years and don't think there is any question who is the better of the 2 at the moment. I can see why some people wouldn't have him but I think he deserves to be on it.
Just to remind you a p4p list shoul have nothing to do with style or excitement just boxin skill and who you think would win if you neglect weight advantage
It's about quality not quantity. Rigo completely outclassing the "fighter of the year" (regardless of whether you agree with this title or not) is more substantial then anything Broner has done up to this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI said that Rigo would win, but Donaire didn't seem up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645Come on man, Rigo dominated Donaire , and there wasn't anything that showed that there would be a different result in a rematch. How can a dominated Donaire be higher than Rigo.? My point - both are elite fighters. Rigo is amazing , and Donaire is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosRigo had a good fight, but if its fought twice more, I think Donaire takes them both.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
Rigon isn't top 10, he only has 12 fights, that's 2 early. He has been fast tracked though.
Still saying Nonito is top 5.
But I refuse to say a boxer with 12 fights should be higher than Broner who has more than double his fights at 10 years younger!
I'm not saying it has anything to do with style or excitement. I ranked Floyd p4p #1 over Pacquaio for YEARS because, to me, the only advantage Manny had over him was punching power and excitement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
Accomplishment plays the biggest part in P4P rankings. P4P should be an overall ranking based on skill, for sure, but also largely on that fighter's accomplishments and dominance relative to their own weight division. This "who would win neglecting weight advantage" stuff is nonsense and absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to judge.
Guys fight and are molded, for the most part, by their weight class and physical abilities. A 250lb heavyweight doesn't, and shouldn't, fight like a 147lb welterweight. There are huge differences obviously in the physical attributes of the HW and the WW. The HW can't maintain the same energy output as a smaller fighter. A big guy has to fight according to his body, as does the smaller man.
So that being said, take a guy like Rigo: he fights according to his size. How the hell can you compare him, p4p, to let's say Wlad. Do we look at them at HW? Well Rigo isn't going to be moving as fast and as much as he did against Donaire. He's not going to have the same reflexes. How does his jaw hold up at that weight? Does he have the "little guy" boxing skills at HW? At Rigo's weight, does Wlad now have little guy skills? He's also now a lot faster and capable of a much higher energy output. How do you possibly compare this?
We have to go by tangibles (skill shown and accomplishment). Rigo has 1 win that means something. I don't think that should put him above guys who have 3 times the fights and way more meaningful wins.
Who has more meaningful wins? Mayweather beating???? Marquez beating Pac is fair enough. Rigo destroyed Ramos a world champ at the time, beat Cordoba, a very dangerous former world champ and big bang Casey and unbeaten Limerick traveller. It takes balls to fight one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI'm not saying it has anything to do with style or excitement. I ranked Floyd p4p #1 over Pacquaio for YEARS because, to me, the only advantage Manny had over him was punching power and excitement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
Accomplishment plays the biggest part in P4P rankings. P4P should be an overall ranking based on skill, for sure, but also largely on that fighter's accomplishments and dominance relative to their own weight division. This "who would win neglecting weight advantage" stuff is nonsense and absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to judge.
Guys fight and are molded, for the most part, by their weight class and physical abilities. A 250lb heavyweight doesn't, and shouldn't, fight like a 147lb welterweight. There are huge differences obviously in the physical attributes of the HW and the WW. The HW can't maintain the same energy output as a smaller fighter. A big guy has to fight according to his body, as does the smaller man.
So that being said, take a guy like Rigo: he fights according to his size. How the hell can you compare him, p4p, to let's say Wlad. Do we look at them at HW? Well Rigo isn't going to be moving as fast and as much as he did against Donaire. He's not going to have the same reflexes. How does his jaw hold up at that weight? Does he have the "little guy" boxing skills at HW? At Rigo's weight, does Wlad now have little guy skills? He's also now a lot faster and capable of a much higher energy output. How do you possibly compare this?
We have to go by tangibles (skill shown and accomplishment). Rigo has 1 win that means something. I don't think that should put him above guys who have 3 times the fights and way more meaningful wins.
Also the way you are describing P4P above how can you not have Wlad and Vitali on the list?