How DO we beat Mayweather?

I think it's fair to suggest that we need to bring in OPEN analysis to solving the Mayweather riddle. It's not that we don't like Mayweather, but what skills would it take to beat him? I have never seen an online board talk about strategies to beat Mayweather.

Everyone has a fatal flaw. Everyone. What have you noticed that would make Mayweather take it on the chin.

I also think it's safe to say that no one is going to win a decision UNLESS Mayweather breaks both of his hands and doesn't throw a punch for more than half the fight OR gets knocked down at least 4 to 5 times in one fight (unlikely this would happen without a ref stopping the match anyways).

So, we are talk about a knockout here- or at least a TKO stoppage.

I happen to think that Mayweather is susceptible to HARD straight hand shots down the pike. No hooks unless you get him standing straight, which very rarely you see him do.

I think the guy to beat him will be a guy that can throw straight and HARD punches down the pike, straight up the middle. Straight, hard punches to the face and/or chin (preferably a STIFF AND PUNCHY LEFT JAB, or a straight left from the Southpaw stance).

The guy will have to have a "rangy" reach advantage- reach not in sync with his height, kinda like a David Tua, where his reach was nearly 5 inches longer than his height). Not necessarily longer than Floyd's, but sneaky that you won't be able to get out of the way of his punches because you would be thinking it would be an inch shorter than anticipated.

Plus, it will be a guy that can hit back while being hit with one of Floyd's punches. THIS is key. The guy to beat Floyd must have the ability to throw a punch while Floyd is throwing a punch SIMULTANEOUSLY. Timing, timing, timing.... that when you see a punch coming, you swing with it. This is harder to do, but it is the only way to hit Floyd.

Any other suggestions?

Just rewatch the delahoya fight. He solved that riddle until old age caught up with him. I also think a prime winky wright would have givin may all kinds of trouble with his defense and and stiff jab. In fact he would've stopped Floyd. IMO

Remember when Tyson said no one could challenge him with their 'primitive' skills? This is like that...Mayweather fights like an old-school fighter, not totally, but enough to be better than what passes for boxing today.
Punching when the other guy punches is something you don't see much now, when guys have 'high guards' and take turns.
To beat Mayweather you have to draw him out and make him lead.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

Remember when Tyson said no one could challenge him with their 'primitive' skills? This is like that...Mayweather fights like an old-school fighter, not totally, but enough to be better than what passes for boxing today.
Punching when the other guy punches is something you don't see much now, when guys have 'high guards' and take turns.
To beat Mayweather you have to draw him out and make him lead.

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I think that's a real good example. If you allow the guy to counter and fight off the back foot behind the shoulder you are doomed. Mayweather has got to have the best right hand in the sport. Not power wise but variation wise. A effective jab is another one like Oscar used in the first half of the fight while working behind it instead of standing still watching Floyd.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

I think it's fair to suggest that we need to bring in OPEN analysis to solving the Mayweather riddle. It's not that we don't like Mayweather, but what skills would it take to beat him? I have never seen an online board talk about strategies to beat Mayweather.

Everyone has a fatal flaw. Everyone. What have you noticed that would make Mayweather take it on the chin.

I also think it's safe to say that no one is going to win a decision UNLESS Mayweather breaks both of his hands and doesn't throw a punch for more than half the fight OR gets knocked down at least 4 to 5 times in one fight (unlikely this would happen without a ref stopping the match anyways).

So, we are talk about a knockout here- or at least a TKO stoppage.

I happen to think that Mayweather is susceptible to HARD straight hand shots down the pike. No hooks unless you get him standing straight, which very rarely you see him do.

I think the guy to beat him will be a guy that can throw straight and HARD punches down the pike, straight up the middle. Straight, hard punches to the face and/or chin (preferably a STIFF AND PUNCHY LEFT JAB, or a straight left from the Southpaw stance).

The guy will have to have a "rangy" reach advantage- reach not in sync with his height, kinda like a David Tua, where his reach was nearly 5 inches longer than his height). Not necessarily longer than Floyd's, but sneaky that you won't be able to get out of the way of his punches because you would be thinking it would be an inch shorter than anticipated.

Plus, it will be a guy that can hit back while being hit with one of Floyd's punches. THIS is key. The guy to beat Floyd must have the ability to throw a punch while Floyd is throwing a punch SIMULTANEOUSLY. Timing, timing, timing.... that when you see a punch coming, you swing with it. This is harder to do, but it is the only way to hit Floyd.

Any other suggestions?

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We stop buying his PPV's.

Ive have thought about it and my answer is -

with a baseball bat.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Ive have thought about it and my answer is -

with a baseball bat.

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I think @Dark Lord Al has knocked it out of the park.

Something I though would work is not going forward.

Going on the back foot and refusing to fight Floyd unless he walks to you.

It would make the fight stink, which essentially hurts Floyd's money/sales of his next fight, so I Imagine he'd come forward to try and make some excitement and make the fans stop booing, then he may be open.

But it's farfetched.

If anyone knew the answer mate, someone would have done it. Quite simply, even at 36, he's unbeatable.

That's from someone who doesn't like him very much.

I still think a guy who is just as fast, with a Juggernaut stamina/endurance, k.o power and continues to leave him no room. Match his foot work/speed and punch him anywhere, especially on his bicep/tricep to wear that guard down. Frustrate him by continuing to match his footwork maybe even tangle legs just to get him uncomfortable. DO NOT WAIT FOR HIM LIKE A LOT OF HIS OPPONENTS DO, HE WILL PICK YOU APART! PUSH HIM, HEADBUTT HIM, YOU GOTTA REALLY WANT TO FORCE HIM OUT OF HIS COMFORT ZONE. Throw an early low blow once a round for the first 2-3 round just to get it in his head, you don't give a fuck you will continue on punching and staying on his ass. DO NOT GET TIRED OR STOP TO MATCH HIS CHESS GAME MIND, CAUSE YOU WI LL LOSE, keep punching and don't worry about losing points cause if you do you would be way behind on points anyways.

I hope all that made sense... :-\

I think Paul Williams would have beaten him with reach, speed and workrate.

Every and anything is doable.

:p tough call. Who we working with against him? Whos our hero? Be nice to have a fighter with everything:-\

Short stocky puncher with a head like a brick?
Exploit what you know about him. Dont fear his speed right hand, dip your head and block his straight opening rights with your forehead as you dip forward into attacking it covering your chin and face and have your feet in place to move and hook him over the top of it as it returns. If you are that good to be in the ring with him you should be able to pull that one off, he wont throw that right hand again all fight cause it'll be a touch broken.

Others: Throwing straight shots at this chest and where he is moving to never at his head when he is moving sideways with straight shots cause you'll miss and he will counter you (follow the path of the target instead) cause he reads everyone too well and when you got a shot in over the top of one of his arms as he's moving that shot you just threw is then in his way and he'd have to take a second read on you and adjust or follow your arm back so you move in and double up.
You also could train to meet his punch with a punch like a head on and his hands will come off worse too. theres lots of things but you'd need a fighter who knows why he moves to a certain spot and doesnt just dance around in and out looking for an opening, he is 90% one step ahead of anyone who only works like that.
You'd have make him get a question in his head and want to change tactics to have any hope at all of landing more than one shot on him per exchange, so you may as well make that one shot really count and know exactly when and how you can get inside on him moving on an already spent side etc and practice that for months. Cant see any other way in on him. Manny may have got lucky cause he would follow the path of a target with weight and speed behind the turn but it was erratic. I Dont think he'd have that reaction anymore.

I think one point out of all of this is to NOT be afraid of the speed and accuracy of his right hand.

That means come to Floyd with 3-4 shot combo's, because almost certainly when you hit him he is going to counter. (someone said work rate)

There are three guys who at any weight class I think would have been the downfall of Floyd #1 Tommy Hearns, he had power, a great delivery system, range, and he was athletic #2 Roberto Duran, very solid fighting on the inside, good pop on his punches, GREAT at the prefight mind games, solid chin, good at making fighters fight his style GRANTED a Leonard 2 kind of fight could occur with him, but for a big time, big money, 1st shot, I bet Duran would bring his A game and #3 Pernell 'Sweet Pea' Whittaker, defensive genius, fast hands, underrated and underused power, and also a master mind game player.

Floyd is an exceptional talent, I mean I didn't even put Ray Leonard in there because at this point in time its hard for me to say. Granted SRL was bigger and could brawl a bit more, but shit Floyd is an All-Time Great as well....you don't get where he is by being a pushover.

I didn't mention Ray Robinson simply because I think that era was different, it's like saying "How would Marciano do as a heavyweight today?". The training is different, the styles are different...not by a little, by a LOT. That said, Ray was super talented and I'd take him in a fight vs damn near anyone from 147 to 160

As far as how do you BEAT Floyd....well get him to bite on a feint, catch him, shake him off you, and flurry like a son of a bitch to try and drop him or stop him. Either that or muscle your way inside and make the fight ugly. Or if you're Tommy Hearns, land your big shot & follow up....other than that IDK...but there IS a way to beat Floyd, there's a way to beat anyone, but it's just a difficult one.

if i was a trainer id get my fighter to really mix it up

1st round pan im

2nd round run

3rd round hold

4th round bum'im

5th round rough it

or whatever

probly wont work like but its worth a try

Leonard, Robison and Tommy Hearns with technical skills, speed, height, power and greatness.

Shane that beat ODH,
ODH that beat Vargas
Vernon Forrest that beat Shane
Tito that destroyed Blocker

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Originally Posted by Master

Leonard, Robison and Tommy Hearns with technical skills, speed, height, power and greatness.

Shane that beat ODH,
ODH that beat Vargas
Vernon Forrest that beat Shane
Tito that destroyed Blocker

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No Duran then? No Whittaker?....I think the Duran that beat Leonard would bust up just about anyone and let's remember he's the GREATEST lightweight of All-Time....and Pernell is probably #2 of the "modern era". The Mayorga that demolished Forrest???? Yes he was crude and raw, but had a great chin and was brave in the ring

There's no real answer. Maybe top quality boxers and trainers have tried to figure it out, so I doubt a bunch of dicks on a message board will find the equation.

I have to laugh at people who think Oscar found a "formula"... he got taken to school.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

No Duran then? No Whittaker?....I think the Duran that beat Leonard would bust up just about anyone and let's remember he's the GREATEST lightweight of All-Time....and Pernell is probably #2 of the "modern era". The Mayorga that demolished Forrest???? Yes he was crude and raw, but had a great chin and was brave in the ring

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I say Pernell schools Duran, but that's, like, just my opinion.

Stiff jab and a fast counter left hook for his straight. Someone mentioned De La Hoya and I agree whenever he used the jab he was neutralizing Floyd for the round.

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Originally Posted by Master

Leonard, Robison and Tommy Hearns with technical skills, speed, height, power and greatness.

Shane that beat ODH,
ODH that beat Vargas
Vernon Forrest that beat Shane
Tito that destroyed Blocker

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Also add winky that beat Shane and Tito

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

There's no real answer. Maybe top quality boxers and trainers have tried to figure it out, so I doubt a bunch of dicks on a message board will find the equation.

I have to laugh at people who think Oscar found a "formula"... he got taken to school.

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Rewatch the first few rounds before he pooped out lol

You wait for him to get old and slower.

Then you storm him and just charge through his punches.

Someone like Alvarez or Broner will give him fits in a couple years.

Don't fall into the trap thinking that you automatically have to chase the guy around because that's the only way to beat him. Keep just outside of his range and make Floyd come to you. As perfect as his fans make him out to be, Floyd still leaps in with his lead left hooks and straight right hands. When you see him with his back heel raised, rear foot toes pointed at you and weight on his front foot your pretty much guaranteed two things will happen - he'll either counter your jab with the pull counter right or if you freeze and don't throw he'll leap in with the lead right hand. At least double up on the jab, throw the first at his head then the second at his right shoulder to disrupt the incoming right. Finish it off with with a right uppercut as you know Floyd always ducks after throwing the right hand then weaves away to your blindside. When he's engaged in his shoulder roll defense move to his left and land jabs to the belly and shoulder as you know that his left hook is pretty much disabled whilst his left arm protects his body. Every now and then throw a left hook to the body off the jab then smother and push him to the ropes. Do what Cotto did when he's there - if you can't land any power punches throw sneaky, short, jolting jabs on the inside. It's the closest punch to him and he won't expect it plus it will disrupt his vision and balance enough for you to start landing body punches. Just don't step straight back out into range like Cotto did after you've finished your work unless you want to eat a barrage of right hands and left uppercuts :-\ When Floyd's raising the shoulder fake the right hand then throw it as he tries to counter it with his own. Doesn't have to be hard just another quick, jolting punch that will disrupt his vision again just enough for you to set up some left hooks to the body and head. When Floyd puts on the earmuffs he's inviting you to jab his body which he will then jab over the top of. Feint a jab there then follow up with the overhand right. This is something you can also do when he gets in that "sprinting" position I mentioned earlier but you want to straighten the right so that you can land earlier than his. Floyd also has a habit of raisin his chin when he jabs. If you stay outside of range this will happen even more as he has to leap in to land it. Let him leap in with a few jabs then slip inside and throw the left uppercut. The way to beat a counterpuncher is to force him to lead and therefore pull him out of his comfort zone. Feints, staying on the outside and not being afraid to stink out the place more than him will help alot more than playing the bull because everyone expects it.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Leonard, Robison and Tommy Hearns with technical skills, speed, height, power and greatness.

Shane that beat ODH,
ODH that beat Vargas
Vernon Forrest that beat Shane
Tito that destroyed Blocker

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No Duran then? No Whittaker?....I think the Duran that beat Leonard would bust up just about anyone and let's remember he's the GREATEST lightweight of All-Time....and Pernell is probably #2 of the "modern era". The Mayorga that demolished Forrest???? Yes he was crude and raw, but had a great chin and was brave in the ring

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Definately agree with the Duran comment especially if that Duran fought the Mayweather of a few years ago. Floyd's bulked up and seems alot stronger recently but if they were to fight a while back I just see Duran walking him down then mauling him. It would be like the Cotto fight but Duran would be alot more wiley on the inside. No way do I see him stepping straight back out and letting Floyd top any of the work he did on the inside. Plus Duran had very underrated defense even when moving forward and was a great counterpuncher in his own right.

I just rewatched the first 5 of the may vs judah fight. judah kept the jab in floyds face and frustrated floyd. He even scored a kd in round 2 with a counter shot. He also caught floyd quite a few time with counter uppercuts after floyd would through the right hand. If zab had kept this up he wouldve won that fight...but we all know what happened.

so to beat floyd you need to throw the jab to keep him guarding and slip the straight in. you also need to be fast enough to counter him. YOu have to also not be afraid to mix it up with him and give him no respect. I think the best thing zab was doing was throwing the jab. He barley landed anything with the jab but the straights and counters gave floyd trouble.

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Originally Posted by chris6878

I just rewatched the first 5 of the may vs judah fight. judah kept the jab in floyds face and frustrated floyd. He even scored a kd in round 2 with a counter shot. He also caught floyd quite a few time with counter uppercuts after floyd would through the right hand. If zab had kept this up he wouldve won that fight...but we all know what happened.

so to beat floyd you need to throw the jab to keep him guarding and slip the straight in. you also need to be fast enough to counter him. YOu have to also not be afraid to mix it up with him and give him no respect. I think the best thing zab was doing was throwing the jab. He barley landed anything with the jab but the straights and counters gave floyd trouble.

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Yes the first five rounds from Judah were great. From what I remember he was out counterpunching Floyd until Floyd raised the tempo of the fight and stopped Judah from getting settled enough to time him. He actually started to walk down Judah behind a high guard instead of trying to box him in the middle of the ring and Zab just didn't have the same depth of game to match him. That was an awesome performance by both fighters

1 part wishful thinking, 1 part praying for Father time and 1 part Jose Luis Castillo :thinking2: :jesus: :work33: ???

Or just win more than 3 clear rounds and call it a moral victory

Or borrow Al's baseball bat

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

Something I though would work is not going forward.

Going on the back foot and refusing to fight Floyd unless he walks to you.

It would make the fight stink, which essentially hurts Floyd's money/sales of his next fight, so I Imagine he'd come forward to try and make some excitement and make the fans stop booing, then he may be open.

But it's farfetched.

If anyone knew the answer mate, someone would have done it. Quite simply, even at 36, he's unbeatable.

That's from someone who doesn't like him very much.

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Are you suggesting someone use the old Cory Spinks method?;D

GGG to drop weight and Smash everybody!

Disconnect his brain from his body. I know for sure you are not going to beat him by committee!
Floyd's fight plan is always the same, he watches his opponent for a couple of rounds, then starts picking them apart. He lets them get away with a few things at first, then turns up the speed.
Floyd's speed, ring generalship, boxing IQ, ability to wait patiently and almost never getting called for holding are tought to beat.
He's the man, it's pure and simple!

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Rewatch the first few rounds before he pooped out lol

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Winning the first few rounds doesn't mean anything (and I don't agree he did). He presented something and Floyd adapted to it like he does to every opponent.

peak naz would hae blasted him at featherweight

bruno is also lb4lb better

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Leonard, Robison and Tommy Hearns with technical skills, speed, height, power and greatness.

Shane that beat ODH,
ODH that beat Vargas
Vernon Forrest that beat Shane
Tito that destroyed Blocker

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No Duran then? No Whittaker?....I think the Duran that beat Leonard would bust up just about anyone and let's remember he's the GREATEST lightweight of All-Time....and Pernell is probably #2 of the "modern era". The Mayorga that demolished Forrest???? Yes he was crude and raw, but had a great chin and was brave in the ring

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I have never rated Sweat Pea at welter just thought he came at the right time but at lightweight he was untouchable.

Floyd now certainly is stronger at the weight then when he first fought against Baldimor although he only weight 145lb is against Guerrero?

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Originally Posted by jahmez

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Originally Posted by chris6878

I just rewatched the first 5 of the may vs judah fight. judah kept the jab in floyds face and frustrated floyd. He even scored a kd in round 2 with a counter shot. He also caught floyd quite a few time with counter uppercuts after floyd would through the right hand. If zab had kept this up he wouldve won that fight...but we all know what happened.

so to beat floyd you need to throw the jab to keep him guarding and slip the straight in. you also need to be fast enough to counter him. YOu have to also not be afraid to mix it up with him and give him no respect. I think the best thing zab was doing was throwing the jab. He barley landed anything with the jab but the straights and counters gave floyd trouble.

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Yes the first five rounds from Judah were great. From what I remember he was out counterpunching Floyd until Floyd raised the tempo of the fight and stopped Judah from getting settled enough to time him. He actually started to walk down Judah behind a high guard instead of trying to box him in the middle of the ring and Zab just didn't have the same depth of game to match him. That was an awesome performance by both fighters

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That was Floyd's last great test- vs Judah. Even vs. Cotto and Hatton you had the feeling he had the match well in hand. Judah was the last fight I ever saw Floyd had to dig in to win....

Judah always had concentration issues. He always got sloppy.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by jahmez

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Originally Posted by chris6878

I just rewatched the first 5 of the may vs judah fight. judah kept the jab in floyds face and frustrated floyd. He even scored a kd in round 2 with a counter shot. He also caught floyd quite a few time with counter uppercuts after floyd would through the right hand. If zab had kept this up he wouldve won that fight...but we all know what happened.

so to beat floyd you need to throw the jab to keep him guarding and slip the straight in. you also need to be fast enough to counter him. YOu have to also not be afraid to mix it up with him and give him no respect. I think the best thing zab was doing was throwing the jab. He barley landed anything with the jab but the straights and counters gave floyd trouble.

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Yes the first five rounds from Judah were great. From what I remember he was out counterpunching Floyd until Floyd raised the tempo of the fight and stopped Judah from getting settled enough to time him. He actually started to walk down Judah behind a high guard instead of trying to box him in the middle of the ring and Zab just didn't have the same depth of game to match him. That was an awesome performance by both fighters

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That was Floyd's last great test- vs Judah. Even vs. Cotto and Hatton you had the feeling he had the match well in hand. Judah was the last fight I ever saw Floyd had to dig in to win....

Judah always had concentration issues. He always got sloppy.
:rolleyes:

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I agree. I actually thought he was gonna lose then zab imploded

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

Disconnect his brain from his body. I know for sure you are not going to beat him by committee!
Floyd's fight plan is always the same, he watches his opponent for a couple of rounds, then starts picking them apart. He lets them get away with a few things at first, then turns up the speed.
Floyd's speed, ring generalship, boxing IQ, ability to wait patiently and almost never getting called for holding are tought to beat.
He's the man, it's pure and simple!

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He also has a plan B and C if required. Mosley nailed him early and yet Mayweather wasn't rattled, he simply adjusted and never lost another round! He is the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, his ability to size up his opponents is uncanny, at first you think he might have trouble with a guy and then by the end of round 4 or 5 the fight result is in no doubt because Mayweather has already stepped into gear and has everything under control. You really have to nail him hard within the first two rounds, you have to dictate the fight first or he will destroy you mentally, Mayweather just takes control, works you out and just cruises to the end. The Pacquiao of 3 years ago was the best chance anyone had of beating Floyd, he had the angles, the pressure and the power to do it, he doesn't have that anymore and will be lucky to beat Rios in November. Alvarez has youth on his side, but i fear that Floyd will make a fool of him if they fight this year! In answer to the question posted "How do we beat Mayweather" ?... I'll be fucked if i know!

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Originally Posted by chris6878

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by jahmez

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Originally Posted by chris6878

I just rewatched the first 5 of the may vs judah fight. judah kept the jab in floyds face and frustrated floyd. He even scored a kd in round 2 with a counter shot. He also caught floyd quite a few time with counter uppercuts after floyd would through the right hand. If zab had kept this up he wouldve won that fight...but we all know what happened.

so to beat floyd you need to throw the jab to keep him guarding and slip the straight in. you also need to be fast enough to counter him. YOu have to also not be afraid to mix it up with him and give him no respect. I think the best thing zab was doing was throwing the jab. He barley landed anything with the jab but the straights and counters gave floyd trouble.

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Yes the first five rounds from Judah were great. From what I remember he was out counterpunching Floyd until Floyd raised the tempo of the fight and stopped Judah from getting settled enough to time him. He actually started to walk down Judah behind a high guard instead of trying to box him in the middle of the ring and Zab just didn't have the same depth of game to match him. That was an awesome performance by both fighters

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That was Floyd's last great test- vs Judah. Even vs. Cotto and Hatton you had the feeling he had the match well in hand. Judah was the last fight I ever saw Floyd had to dig in to win....

Judah always had concentration issues. He always got sloppy.
:rolleyes:

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I agree. I actually thought he was gonna lose then zab imploded

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Notice how Zab fights? Straigh South-Paw punches down the middle, you hardly see Zab throw hooks. If he had more power, Floyd would have more than that one knock-down in the fight. YES, Zab gave Floyd a knoc-down!!

Notice the punch? A short, crisp shot- with Floyd coming in. It wasn't exactly a hook, but more like a crisp shot on the inside.

But, Judah was hitting Floyd with straight hands down the pike AND SCORING until he imploded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIsMK33hZZ4