Please take the time to do this for you and your families future health.

Avaaz - Monsanto vs. Mother Earth

The mega rich families behind Monsanto are trying to secure your food at its seed source and keep you from purchacing natural untouched food in the future.They control chemicals into foods and livestock in agriculture and these people have other stocks and interests in Chemicals in medicine.
Not hard to see what they are up too on both ends of the food chain. ;)
Now is the only chance to stop them. Take the time to sign, its one minute of your time.

This is a VERY important topic. For hundreds of years farmers have basically owned their seeds and yet this is something that has been whittled away since WW2. Farmers in the West have seen their rights stripped away and seeds are now pretty much owned and distributed by a handful of corporations. I think it was America that legally gave seed DNA control to corporations thus any farmer accused of 'hoarding' seeds would be met with long and arduous legal proceedings. Farmers in the West rely upon oil, equipment, fertilisers, and so on and even their right to control their own seeds has pretty much been taken away.

These corporations are largely controlling food commodities markets too. Thus whilst the average Englishman hasn't seen his wages go up very much since 2008, his food costs have risen by 35%. In many respects it is the new slavery and it is only going to get worse. Stock markets are a scam, but when foodmarkets act in much the same way (making a profit at the expense of others who actually do the work, or in this case, the people who need to eat) then I think you are getting into horribly shady territory.

You two are veering into Brockton conspiracy area here. GMO foods are responsible for a lot of people in the world not going hungry. I completely understand you wanting to know what goes into your food but the demonizing of Monsanto is out of control. They do have the market on soy beans currently cornered and that is b/c their insect resistant seeds are apparently the shit. Their patent runs out next year so their market share will likely drop. Farmers don't have to use Monsanto beans though and there are other options out there. If they do choose to, they sign a contract stating that they won't use the seeds from their insect resistant crop to grow more soy beans. This seems pretty normal to me otherwise you could buy the seeds once and then never again. This isn't really all that different to me than a Big Pharma spending a ton of money to create a drug and having a patent on it. Agriculture in the US is already big business with companies like Archer Daniel Mills raking in government subsidies that legislators market as helping the family farm. If you want to support the little guy then you have to make an effort to buy from farmers markets and local butchers not grocery store chains.

Good look at some bad anti-gmo science
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-gmo-activism/

Great look at how regulation hurts our food system
Creating Sustainable Agriculture Without Government Subsidies - Reason.com

I dont trust them mate , I see you point and that is quantity at low monetary cost. But to them the whole thing is about the money markets at any cost, legally bought.

They got one of their men in here into the board of land management here in NSW, he talked up how willow trees were choking out out streams with their roots etc.
Sold the idea that the nsw land department should poison all these trees in the water.
Roundup drilled into trees was the answer to irrigation. Guess what happend to the creeks and rivers on all the bends when big rains hit? People lost land, erosion is now the main problem, but Monsanto stock price went up which was the main exercise.


Thats just one little thing the further you look into them the more you find that is questionable.



Here they are fighting their own old mistakes with new genetic stock:

Monsanto, Dow Crops Face Delays as U.S. Boosts Scrutiny - Bloomberg

You wonder why cancer is rife and increasing, its chemicals coming through your food chain for the sake of money and stocks and shares.

These people have as many chemicals and growth hormones,antibiotics etc running through your soil, your chickens, your plants. Beef is the best natural filter of it so far (for our consumption,safest thing to eat) but its still tainted.

We've already lost a third of the world bees and its on the increase. Independent scientists can only come up with a microbug that is effecting the stomach of the bee and they just die.
The reason the bee cant naturally fend off this old bug is that its immune system has been weakened by agricultural chemicals (made by guess who).they cant point the finger though (we all know what would occur if they did,and they cant afford to go up against someone of that size).

Of course there are paid scientists working on the other side to disprove the independent ones because that kind of info if released and not thwarted in some way would do in the companies market value which again is their whole point.

You dont want these people cornering the market on natural produce grown in commercial quantities on organic ground. If they do this at the root or seed level and are backed by law then we lose our choice; as they will then run the price up to maintain their other major interests.

Obama signs 'Monsanto Protection Act' written by Monsanto-sponsored senator — RT USA


I dont trust him either bro.

It seems like you are seeing correlation with some of that and assuming causation. I'm no friend of mega agri-business but I also enjoy not paying through the nose for good produce. We try to balance price with desire. When we can afford it we do mostly organic and local. Anyway, I think the scrutiny on Monsanto is justified but the gmo=bad crowd just seems oblivious to the amount of people in the world that don't go hungry b/c of GMO foods. It doesn't help that in the US the anti-GMO crowd is also the anti-vaccine crowd.

Yeah you are right, some people are even anti the non anti and the anti like some hobby.

It isn't conpiracy theory and the records show what is happening to the crops produced by farmers and the number of corporations distributing seeds. Corporations are basically taking out patents on crop variations and are trying to stamp out resistance on the part of farmers and it has been happening for 50 years. We are heading towards what is a corporate monopoly on basic seeds, which is very bad news.

As for GM foods helping to stamp out global hunger and keep costs down. Well, 35% price increases over 5 years to people in the West is an awful lot more than that to people in most parts of the world. The corporations have the seeds under wraps and they have also now got the markets in their hands too.

These developments are NOT about stopping people going hungry, they are about control and profit.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

It isn't conpiracy theory and the records show what is happening to the crops produced by farmers and the number of corporations distributing seeds. Corporations are basically taking out patents on crop variations and are trying to stamp out resistance on the part of farmers and it has been happening for 50 years. We are heading towards what is a corporate monopoly on basic seeds, which is very bad news.

As for GM foods helping to stamp out global hunger and keep costs down. Well, 35% price increases over 5 years to people in the West is an awful lot more than that to people in most parts of the world. The corporations have the seeds under wraps and they have also now got the markets in their hands too.

These developments are NOT about stopping people going hungry, they are about control and profit.

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What exactly are you talking about in the bolded part? Please provide a link to support it. As a family of 5 we pay close attention to our grocery bill and it hasn't gone up by 35%. Regardless there are a multitude of factors that affect price so suggesting that the overwhelming cause is Agri-Business Conglomerates price gouging farmers seems a bit daft. This article from your countrymen suggests bad weather has a much bigger role.

BBC News - Q&A: Why food prices and fuel costs are going up

As far as the patents go, do you really think a company that spends millions on r&d to create a drought/bug/herbicide resistant seed shouldn't be allowed to maintain some proprietary rights? I'm not naive to think that Monsanto makes these things out of the goodness of their heart but you cannot deny that them and companies like them design seeds/plants that can be grown in places they otherwise either wouldn't at all or wouldn't in the amount they do now which results in a reduction in world hunger.

Food crop diversity is diminishing and seed distribution has become largely monopolised by a handful of corporations and I mean that in particular reference to the US. There are plenty of seeds, but they are frankenstein seeds and provided by only a few corporations and in particular Monsanto. Farmers are sued if their crop is infected with these strands and once they buy seeds from these companies they are not allowed to retain them. It is highly unethical and seemingly supported by US law. A basic Google search will supply you with data that you know already. Corporations like Monsanta have practically unchecked control over food markets and unchecked in the way that too many things are unchecked in America.

DuPont says U.S. must curb Monsanto seed monopoly | Reuters

Again with regard to food prices, if you follow the news as I am sure you do, then you will know that food prices are rampant. It's there in the news and I am sure most have experienced it. I certainly have, so it is definitely not a news conspiracy. 2008 was a bumper year for harvests and yet hey presto prices went up massively. You always hear about the weather etc, but food commodities markets were a significant factor. They have been for over a decade now. Food increases have been above inflation for a long time and over half a decade have gone up around 35% for the average Brit. Once the prices go up, they don't come down. Pick a year and it is easy to find articles such as this.

Food inflation 'could go beyond 10pc before next year' - Telegraph


It is no coincidence that monopolisation of the seed also resulted in record busting increases in the cost of new seeds. It is market control both at the distribution level and then when you factor in heavy speculation, what you end up with is very expensive food and food that isn't statistically reducing global hunger in the slightest. It is making a few very rich and creating havoc in the ordinary lives of hundreds of millions. In fact more Americans are going hungry than at any stage in decades, so it isn't even just a problem having to be faced by the global poor.

You would think with genetically superior products that weather would be a fading excuse, but surprisingly it only ever gets worse and costs never stop rising and farmers and consumers alike suffer at the hands of insidious monopolistic corporations. It is because it isn't just down to the weather, it is other factors equally significant and they get downplayed by a biased mainstream media.

Come in @VictorCharlie do you copy, I only have one issue with the basic inoculation thing and thats they are given not on the body weight of children just on age, same dose for the lot of them,of course some slender lightweight kids are going to get double the risk of side effects if they are that way inclined already then those one will be well fucked by it.
Over. ;D

You know America was well ahead of us here in regards knowing ill effects of some chemicals,you guys had 2-4-d and 2-4-5 t banned years before we did here. I think it was a decade. They couldn't sell it to you, so they sold off their stock to our old farming communities knowing full well the damage to the unborn and the future cancer causing effects to adults on the land and through consumption.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Food crop diversity is diminishing and seed distribution has become largely monopolised by a handful of corporations and I mean that in particular reference to the US. There are plenty of seeds, but they are frankenstein seeds and provided by only a few corporations and in particular Monsanto. Farmers are sued if their crop is infected with these strands and once they buy seeds from these companies they are not allowed to retain them. It is highly unethical and seemingly supported by US law. A basic Google search will supply you with data that you know already. Corporations like Monsanta have practically unchecked control over food markets and unchecked in the way that too many things are unchecked in America.

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Your article says Monsanto's biggest competitor (Dow Chemical) is claiming that Monsanto has a monopoly. Well color me shocked that one massive agri-business wants the government to help its market share against another massive agri-business. Hell the article also states that there are over 4k different corn variations and 2k soy in the market. That sounds like there are a lot of options out there just not of the drought/herbicide resistant kind. There's 100% freedom. No one is forced to buy Monsanto soybeans. You can buy from another company. You can save soybean seed from a non-patented variety. You can go to your local university and get seed from a publicly-developed or heirloom variety and start your own freaking company. Monsanto has a monopoly on herbicide resistant soy and some other specific staple crops b/c their patented seed allows farmers to plant almost twice as much per acre. Spend some time at a grain elevator or coop and you will see there are plenty of options they just aren't as good as the resistant strains. Now your portion about farmers being sued b/c Monsanto seeds blew into their fields is totally false.
There is no record of this every happening but there is a record of farmers using this as a defense once they were found growing Monsanto plant w/o paying for the seeds. Hell Monsanto has flat stated they won't sue for this. PUBPAT > Appeals Court Binds Monsanto To Promise Not To Sue Organic Farmers Monstanto's price increases are also having a negative effect on their market share. More US farmers planting non-GMO soybeans this year

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Again with regard to food prices, if you follow the news as I am sure you do, then you will know that food prices are rampant. It's there in the news and I am sure most have experienced it. I certainly have, so it is definitely not a news conspiracy. 2008 was a bumper year for harvests and yet hey presto prices went up massively. You always hear about the weather etc, but food commodities markets were a significant factor. They have been for over a decade now. Food increases have been above inflation for a long time and over half a decade have gone up around 35% for the average Brit. Once the prices go up, they don't come down. Pick a year and it is easy to find articles such as this.

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Your article says nothing about a GMO monopoly causing the price increase but strangely enough does mention weather patterns and inflation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

It is no coincidence that monopolisation of the seed also resulted in record busting increases in the cost of new seeds. It is market control both at the distribution level and then when you factor in heavy speculation, what you end up with is very expensive food and food that isn't statistically reducing global hunger in the slightest. It is making a few very rich and creating havoc in the ordinary lives of hundreds of millions. In fact more Americans are going hungry than at any stage in decades, so it isn't even just a problem having to be faced by the global poor.

You would think with genetically superior products that weather would be a fading excuse, but surprisingly it only ever gets worse and costs never stop rising and farmers and consumers alike suffer at the hands of insidious monopolistic corporations. It is because it isn't just down to the weather, it is other factors equally significant and they get downplayed by a biased mainstream media.

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So again you are drawing false conclusions that you can't seem to support and then claiming causation when you are actually struggling to even show causation. Stick to Korea buddy, as usual you aren't nearly as smart on the US as you think you are.

That side of their legal battle is very tough to fight and defend on a %. If they own and plant side by side in set crop areas you cant stop a delivery or a mass of workers because of wind.

I dont know about US practices,but we used to have super phosphate dropped on our roof by crop dusters so that went straight into our water tanks you could hear the pellets hitting the roof like bullets, they were ment to spread it out on the grass next door not near us, but wind etc. Thats the stuff we could hear, when they came across spraying chemicals thats worse, (not knowing what next door ordered in while you were at work etc).
Automation and chemicals has had its down sides, if it gets into your dna your whole line will pay.

Andre, when I first heard about farmers being sued due to monsanto seeds being accidentally grown I was pretty shocked but as it turned out Monsanto has never sued any b/c of unintentional growth. It is just an urban myth floated by groups that want to demonize the group. Monsanto is a huge corporation and I don't doubt they do some shady shit. Just like anyone they are going to do what is in their best interest but I just don't believe and the fact don't really bear out this reptilian overlord bit. I'm with you on the chemicals though man. We make every effort to do organic. Hell we recently donated all of our pot/pans and went all cast iron to avoid cooking on non-stick chemicals.

VC, there might be 'thousands' of seeds, but when a few companies control the vast majority of seed distribution and then impose stringent rules on things that can and do grow naturally thus seed, then you are into dangerous territory. I don't understand why you are so defensive about monopoly control.

As for farmers being given a rough time by Monsanta. Again, there are articles all over the place saying that this is indeed what they do.

Also when it comes to commodities markets, again you seem to be putting your head in the sand a bit. Clinton deregulated the markets and thus financial players started playing games. Goldman Sachs and many other notorious financial institutions have made a lot of money from playing games with food. Again, on the record. Commodities markets are prey to rampant speculation that didn't exist for much of this century.

Weather will always be a factor, but as I keep stating, it is amazing how these companies are making exorbitant profits on 'superproducts' that are seemingly not so super after all. The seed prices are rampant and the markets more volatile than ever. However, anyone who says so is always anti America it couldn't be that the corporations involved are American and it was the US government that deregulated markets that were working well.

Miles,

If your posts are just "The U.S. Agriculture per Miles" then fine but you are making some statements as fact that at a minimum I'm not familiar with the supporting references (I'm not just trying to be contrary either. If you have some facts I'm not aware of then I genuinely would like to read them). There is no shortage of options for farmers it is just that Monsanto's products have changed the way agri-business in the US is run. There are a lot of legal issues between farmers and Monsanto but much of that stems from Monsanto protecting their patent which as I said expires in 2014. Speculation does play a role and while I'm familiar with Clinton's deregulation of the financial sector by repealing Glass Steagal I'm not familiar with it in the agriculture sector. So please inform me. All that being said we had pretty stellar job growth under Clinton in the 90s. If the products weren't superior then farmers wouldn't buy them and as I showed earlier Monsanto's price increases have pushed farmers away from them versus simply extorting them. I'm not accusing you of being anti-american....in this instance but I think you just aren't as informed on American specific issues as you think you are.

Interesting conversation too.

Got off track slightly though,this was about closing off loopholes in old laws in Europe allowing people with huge resources to gain ownership of popular grown natural seed types not gm ones. Which would force the market in a way that would make those seed types eventually untouchable and if you had your own stock and seed already, eventually you would still have to prove it legally against them and we know who would win so thats not defensible against their lawyers.

Mansanto in 2005 took over the majority of USa grown produce by buying Seminis group.

Seminis then controlled 40 percent of the U.S. vegetable seed market and 20 percent of the world market—supplying the genetics for 55 percent of the lettuce on U.S. supermarket shelves, 75 percent of the tomatoes, and 85 percent of the peppers, with strong holdings in beans, cucumbers, squash, melons, broccoli, cabbage, spinach and peas. The company’s biggest revenue source comes from tomato and peppers seeds, followed by cucumbers and beans.


That sort of forced many organic growers into niche markets and away from the more popular varieties (which has other benefits for them and us as consumers, theres no denying that).

Still, the cornering of the market legally by such giants has its obvious mass product benefits and affordability to the masses but in the long run we'll all pay (my belief is we'll pay in health via their chemical practices in addition but we'll save in the pocket).

Be nice to able to choose which type of veg as well as organic or gm instead of being forced out into the rarer types at more expense and the reverse occurring where people cant afford choice.

Also these mass companies using their own chemicals: they know the use is accumulative in animals and our human system and drops our natural immunity levels until eventually the weaker part of the natural system becomes a cancer risk (I buy into that belief).
Im not linking chemicals to growing for any reason other than its their business practice for profit.

I say grow your own. We have a pretty vibrant herb garden and tomato harvest. When we lived in the home we own we had a pretty big garden. That is something I miss now that we rent again.

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Miles,

If your posts are just "The U.S. Agriculture per Miles" then fine but you are making some statements as fact that at a minimum I'm not familiar with the supporting references (I'm not just trying to be contrary either. If you have some facts I'm not aware of then I genuinely would like to read them). There is no shortage of options for farmers it is just that Monsanto's products have changed the way agri-business in the US is run. There are a lot of legal issues between farmers and Monsanto but much of that stems from Monsanto protecting their patent which as I said expires in 2014. Speculation does play a role and while I'm familiar with Clinton's deregulation of the financial sector by repealing Glass Steagal I'm not familiar with it in the agriculture sector. So please inform me. All that being said we had pretty stellar job growth under Clinton in the 90s. If the products weren't superior then farmers wouldn't buy them and as I showed earlier Monsanto's price increases have pushed farmers away from them versus simply extorting them. I'm not accusing you of being anti-american....in this instance but I think you just aren't as informed on American specific issues as you think you are.

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With deregulation the food commodities markets have grown exponentially. They were small pretty well controlled markets prior to Clinton, but since have ballooned and swollen to horrible degrees. Some of the people who I wouldn't trust will argue that you cannot prove the link between prices and speculation, but others will say quite the opposite and that it is perhaps a leading factor.

I'm not an expert on agriculture and don't know that much, but it is something I became interested in a few months ago in a couple of documentaries looking at seeds and farmers in America. I then did a little bit of reading for myself and that is all I know. I think I was in the same boat as most until the documentary in that most are simply not aware about the food and practices that go on in providing food. The same goes for a lot of areas in life. Most live in quiet ignorance and just hope someone is looking out for them, but seemingly nobody really is and that is why Andre is cool for starting this thread. It is something constructive.

This article outlines some of the issues with deregulation and commodities markets, but again I am not a super expert. I read news stories for about an hour everyday and don't bookmark every interesting thing I read. My field is the work I do and news and posts about politics are just a hobby horse. I put forth what I know, but find it hard to post links and stuff sometimes and especially in the final week of a semester when even this post has me putting down 30 papers that should really be getting graded.

UN Pleads for Curbing Speculation in Food Commodities

And sure, if people would seperate the corporatism and the politics which I do always bang on about, then they would see I'm not all that anti-American. If we are talking literature and music, I am into America a lot, but when it comes to old farts and their war rhetoric and lies. Well, I am not so enamoured.

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Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

I say grow your own. We have a pretty vibrant herb garden and tomato harvest. When we lived in the home we own we had a pretty big garden. That is something I miss now that we rent again.

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We are lucky here, we do that.

Its funny though down the road is a large commercial grower they are on the high ground side of the road ,over the road a guy rented a block and sold organic veg, turned out it got a bit tainted just on the water run off. :( So he went back to his other area away from them. (they also use chemically treated sewage water just to water the stuff).
We have to watch out for Chinese produce for similar reasons they are a step or more further behind us in regulations and yet we are ripping out and burning our fruit trees because of cheaper imports.:( Soon those prices will soar.The Chinese had pollinate their pear trees with people and brushes because the bees are all dead from their over use of chemicals.Fuck and we lost thousands of acres of trees last week.

Its madness,governments all over the show trade off imports for export rights and shake hands on deals that cross over from industry to mining to agriculture without balancing the future of the middle men. Big business stocks and shares its all it is about.:(

Miles,

This has been entirely too congenial discussion. Surely one of us should call the other a cunt to maintain the status quo.;D

Ha! You cunt! :)

I am just being jocular there. It's nice to have a quieter discussion and it is a subject that interests me as it does seem to be a growing issue for the future. Get it? Growing issue! :D