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Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Lets review!
Bradley - I had Pacquiao up by 3 or 4 at the end of this fight and although some draws I can say "I had this guy winning but I can understand a draw" that wasn't the case here.
JMM - so he was brutally knocked out, by a guy that took 42 rounds to figure him out. The 3 previous fights were close, many say JMM should have won them, but the stats come out as Pacquiao a clear winner, either way, not unfair that he won 2 of them.
I believe he has declined a little, not much, just in foot movement, but he has the skill set and experience to adjust and learn to adapt to it.
I also believe the fight with FM jr will still be an attraction.
Thoughts? (Try and avoid PEDs talk, if you can :/ )
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Yeah, i agree with you on the Bradley fight, i had him cruising to get the decision, so i dont consider that a loss. In the JMM fight Manny looked really good up until that knockdown. That knockdown was brutal though, so that one was actually that bad cause it took away his aura of invincibility. I'm interested in seeing how he recovers from that, will he be the old Manny, or will he be damaged goods? Honestly, up until that knockout, i thought he looked way better in the first few rounds of that fight than he had in a lot of his past fights.
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The JMM One was bad, a loss is a loss at the end of the day and that stoppage in that manor shows that it could happen again to Pac. Will it happen again? I don't know but major respects to him for taking on a challenger like Rios because he could have easily had an easier one. We will see what's left of manny after this fight. If he does well it will show that the KO defeat to JMM was just a fantastic punch, if something like that happens again then Pac can't compete at the top level.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
At 1999 Pacquiao had been knocked out early.
He went 13 years without it happening again, but he is knockoutable, but managed 13 years to defend.
I don't see him getting knocked out again.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
The Marquez KO was as bad as they come. It was Hatton, Williams, or Jones Jr. bad. I agree that Pac was looking pretty good prior to that and Marquez was getting busted up and in the previous 2 rounds he was getting pretty mashed facially but then he found the keys to the mansion. The timed punch that potentially ends careers.
People give the example of Duran who came back from a bad KO, but most of the time fighters are not the same. Also, Pac in his next fight will have been out a year and his speed is the key. He is only going to get tagged more and once your brain has experienced being knocked out cold like that, I think it is something that can only deteriorate a fighters resistance. You get tagged hard again and the neurons in the brain start to hyperventilate. The brain probably doesn't enjoy it very much.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Marquez didn't take 42 rounds to figure him out, he took 6, cause he dominated him from the 6th round onward of their first fight, and continued doing so since, IMO Pacquiao is 4-0 against JMM or at the very least 0-3-1 against Marquez, the KO is just a punctuation on how much better JMM is than Manny, people can't find a valid excuse for the loss, he wasn't the older fighter, both men have climbed up in weight, both have been in wars, roughly same number of fights, so enough with the excuses for Manny, he miscalculated trying to put the cards in his favor, and well it backfired and he got whooped for the 2nd consecutive year
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
The Bradley one wasn't that bad because it was widely regarded as a bad decision.
But it's ALWAYS terrible to get KTFO by a rival. And for people that feel JMM was robbed in some of those fights (personally I believe JMM won the 1st and 3rd fight, with Pac winning the 2nd by a close margin), the huge KO was a confirmation that JMM was the better fighter.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Fights like the first 3 are close and it's who refs that counts.
All 3 fights and they're punch stats said Pacquiao won.
I'm not a huge Pacquiao fan, but I want to see him vs mayweather, so he needs at least 2 good wins.
JMM won't rematch him I bet, which is shocking because Pacquiao rematched him 3 times.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Fights like the first 3 are close and it's who refs that counts.
All 3 fights and they're punch stats said Pacquiao won.
I'm not a huge Pacquiao fan, but I want to see him vs mayweather, so he needs at least 2 good wins.
JMM won't rematch him I bet, which is shocking because Pacquiao rematched him 3 times.
i didnt think the fights with JMM were bad decisions, the last one he won there was uproar but i thought he won
pac was fighting very regularly at the very top level and usually against much bigger fighters, he looked unbeatable at one point, but he's gone off the boil a bit which is acceptable considering
people talk about carl frochs run of fights, which is amazing, pacs is much better especially considering the weights he moved up through
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Fights like the first 3 are close and it's who refs that counts.
All 3 fights and they're punch stats said Pacquiao won.
I'm not a huge Pacquiao fan, but I want to see him vs mayweather, so he needs at least 2 good wins.
JMM won't rematch him I bet, which is shocking because Pacquiao rematched him 3 times.
punch stats don't mean shit, and Pacquiao only rematched Marquez when it was a last resort cause he had run out of other options or he felt that it was beneficial to him, it's a well known FACT that Marquez had to chase him way too long to get the 2nd and 3rd fight, the only time there isn't a huge gap is between the 3rd and 4th, and those came along because Manny and his team thought that Marquez was right there and ripe for the picking, it backfired, he payed for it end of story
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
All 3 fights and they're punch stats said Pacquiao won.
Punch stats only say who won in the amateurs.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Fights like the first 3 are close and it's who refs that counts.
All 3 fights and they're punch stats said Pacquiao won.
I'm not a huge Pacquiao fan, but I want to see him vs mayweather, so he needs at least 2 good wins.
JMM won't rematch him I bet, which is shocking because Pacquiao rematched him 3 times.
Actually that's not true.
Fight 1
Marquez Landed 158 punches 122 power punches
Pacquiao Landed 148 punches 100 power punches
Fight 2
Marquez Landed 172 punches 130 power punches
Pacquiao Landed 157 punches 114 power punches
So if you want to go by punchstats then JMM is 3-1 vs Pacquiao, but punchstats don't always tell the whole story. I actually thought JMM won more convincingly in the 3rd fight than he did the other two fights, yet punchstats had Manny Pacquiao landing more so go figure.
I don't see why JMM has to rematch him again, many people think he won the other fights. And even if you think he didn't he KO'ed Pacquiao without leaving any doubt.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Everyone seems to forget the first knockdown of the marquez pacqiou fight. MArquez was on roids, it was much more than a well timed punch. To answer your question , no they weren't that bad. he is the second best fighter of our generation and top ten p4p imo. He still has a couple good fights in him but i doubt he can be himself again after a loss that bad. But then again he seems to have that personality unlike a Roy jones where it wont mess with him mentally, the big question is if there is any lingering physical damage. And i would absolutly love to see him fight floyd, depite everything i think he is the toughest fight for floyd, floyd has trouble with akward fighters, and southpaws, pacqiou is both, but ill still take floyd to dig deep and come out on top.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
I think Manny lost from a body shot in his earlier days so that does not have too much of an effect but the KO loss to Marquez will certainly play on his mind.
Bradley loss can be put down to not being hungry enough and fighting in the comfort zone but that could be due to the fact that he is past his very best and can not hit that level again.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Marquez clearly lost against pac in every fight except the ko fight.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
At 1999 Pacquiao had been knocked out early.
He went 13 years without it happening again, but he is knockoutable, but managed 13 years to defend.
I don't see him getting knocked out again.
Yeah, just stay away from marquez.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Fights like the first 3 are close and it's who refs that counts.
All 3 fights and they're punch stats said Pacquiao won.
I'm not a huge Pacquiao fan, but I want to see him vs mayweather, so he needs at least 2 good wins.
JMM won't rematch him I bet, which is shocking because Pacquiao rematched him 3 times.
Actually that's not true.
Fight 1
Marquez Landed 158 punches 122 power punches
Pacquiao Landed 148 punches 100 power punches
Fight 2
Marquez Landed 172 punches 130 power punches
Pacquiao Landed 157 punches 114 power punches
So if you want to go by punchstats then JMM is 3-1 vs Pacquiao, but punchstats don't always tell the whole story. I actually thought JMM won more convincingly in the 3rd fight than he did the other two fights, yet punchstats had Manny Pacquiao landing more so go figure.
I don't see why JMM has to rematch him again, many people think he won the other fights. And even if you think he didn't he KO'ed Pacquiao without leaving any doubt.
punch stats are given too much weight, what if all those extra shots happened in one or two rounds? They're not generated by some super computer, it's some nerd trying to count shots as they go along.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
As far as Marquez it can easily be victory that proved 'bad' and yeh, being left in a drunken Superman pose on the canvas at the end is as bad as it gets. The Bradley fight was horrible and Manny got shafted though he did himself no favors following a one footed guy around and not trying to cement a win. Bradley being knocked around and concussed at least 6 times in his last fight and now given the oppurtunity to take out Pac's arch rival is bad also. Good for fans though. Bigger question is if he really wants to continue fighting, 100 percent focus. He can answer that vs Rios.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
The ko was bad and @Gandalf was as you Brits say spot on. Those kinds of ko's are career enders. The other defeats are insignificant damage wise with one being an absolute robbery unless a person carries a dominant stupid gene.
The first fights with Marquez were all close. I had the first fight a draw but had the first round been called correctly Manny would have won the fight. I had Marquez winning the second and Manny winning the third. The fourth was also close prior to the punch of the year.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
The kayo from jmm is the baddest kayo ever. Too bad it will never be avenged. A consolation would be if Pac stops Rios in Nov.
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I'm a Pacquoia fan just like a lot of us.
He was screwed in the Bradley fight.
Marquez smoked him in their last fight. Marquez had a lot of rounds to figure out Pacquoia but Manny had just as many rounds to figure out Marquez and he came up short.
I'm thinking Manny has slipped a little so the Rios fight is do or die for him, he has to win and look good doing it, in my opinion.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
How anybody could give the 3rd fight to Manny is still beyond me... ???
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Good chance that I mixed up 2 and 3.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
How anybody could give the 3rd fight to Manny is still beyond me... ???
Class & craft boxing there, all composure.
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Manny never slipped.
Dont discredit 40 yr old marquez.
Like i said before if manny fought marquez after oscar pacmania would not exist.
Great fighters like manny just cant deal with smart fighters.
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I stopped reading when you said it took 42 rounds to figure Pacquiao out, JMM-Pacquiao 3 was voted robbery of the year
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
I'm a Pacquoia fan just like a lot of us.
He was screwed in the Bradley fight.
Marquez smoked him in their last fight. Marquez had a lot of rounds to figure out Pacquoia but Manny had just as many rounds to figure out Marquez and he came up short.
I'm thinking Manny has slipped a little so the Rios fight is do or die for him, he has to win and look good doing it, in my opinion.
Huggers Denial ........ Pac was looking better then ever until he got caught with a perfectly delivered punch. If there is slippage it remains to be seen until his next fight
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
The kayo from jmm is the baddest kayo ever. Too bad it will never be avenged. A consolation would be if Pac stops Rios in Nov.
Not if JMM stops Bradley. If does Pac has no business having the lions share of the purse
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Lets review!
Bradley - I had Pacquiao up by 3 or 4 at the end of this fight and although some draws I can say "I had this guy winning but I can understand a draw" that wasn't the case here.
JMM - so he was brutally knocked out, by a guy that took 42 rounds to figure him out. The 3 previous fights were close, many say JMM should have won them, but the stats come out as Pacquiao a clear winner, either way, not unfair that he won 2 of them.
I believe he has declined a little, not much, just in foot movement, but he has the skill set and experience to adjust and learn to adapt to it.
I also believe the fight with FM jr will still be an attraction.
Thoughts? (Try and avoid PEDs talk, if you can :/ )
JJM is Pac-mans bogey fighter he has Mannys number, Ali had Norton close controversial fights,
but the KO of Pac, gave JMM the edge,!
Bradley well was lucky simple, Manny has not taken a lot of punishment, he has dished a lot out
but has taken very little, he is far from washed up and is still a great little fighter.
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Re: Where Pacquiaos losses actually that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dia bando
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Lets review!
Bradley - I had Pacquiao up by 3 or 4 at the end of this fight and although some draws I can say "I had this guy winning but I can understand a draw" that wasn't the case here.
JMM - so he was brutally knocked out, by a guy that took 42 rounds to figure him out. The 3 previous fights were close, many say JMM should have won them, but the stats come out as Pacquiao a clear winner, either way, not unfair that he won 2 of them.
I believe he has declined a little, not much, just in foot movement, but he has the skill set and experience to adjust and learn to adapt to it.
I also believe the fight with FM jr will still be an attraction.
Thoughts? (Try and avoid PEDs talk, if you can :/ )
JJM is Pac-mans bogey fighter he has Mannys number, Ali had Norton close controversial fights,
but the KO of Pac, gave JMM the edge,!
Bradley well was lucky simple, Manny has not taken a lot of punishment, he has dished a lot out
but has taken very little, he is far from washed up and is still a great little fighter.
I don't agree with that maybe not currently apart from the JMM fights, but he took alot of punishment in his early career. And let's not forget the two wars with Morales, although I agree he's not washed up. I thought Pacquiao looked better in the 4th JMM fight than he did in his last few fights, and JMM is older and has been in just as many wars as Pacquaio if not more.
