Interested to hear any criticisms of Lennox Lewis here

I'll start. 1st thing that comes to mind about him---and I dont know why---is his 2 knockouts by McCall and Rahman and to a lesser extent his last fight with Klitschko.
You never saw Marciano or Ali or Foreman or Holmes get smoked/sparked with a single shot stone cold out. So it does have an effect when we recall those facts in Lewis' career. Yes Schmeling KO'd Louis but it was a combination left-right-uppercut-left I think. And of course Rocky smoked Joe but he was already old. Was Lewis old when McCall and Rahman got him? Dont think so. 1999 and 2001 right? That is still in his prime isnt it.

I rank him in the top 10 alltime great but I sometimes wonder where he actually belongs.

What criticism if any would you have about him?

The skill level in the last fight with Vitali was fucking abysmal. Mccall knocked him out with a right hand off a move Marciano used all the time. Shade to your right, get outside his jab, follow his jab home with your right hand. if you get low and make him jab down it works even better.

Lazy at times and lacked motivation.

My only criticism of Lennox Lewis is that he waited too long and played chess more than fighting sometimes.

Ina division that is primarily guys that can punch, you need to get off first and try to land the shots, if you don't, and you try to figure the other guy out and wait for a mistake you might just get caught waiting.

That is exactly what happened, he was caught because he wasn't the aggressor, if you look at the Rahman knockout, he's on the back foot.

@brocktonblockbust Marciano and most of the HW division was different, the size, strength and power now compared to then are all massively higher, if Rahman or McCall caught Marciano with one of those punches, he's 49-1.

I don't blame him so much for the Mccall fight because Mccall landed a perfect punch, and he trained that move over and over with Manny Stewart before the Lewis fight because Manny felt it would work and open him up.

But the Rahman loss was stupid as hell. It was a matter of him getting cocky, lazy and getting his dick knocked into the dirt for it. Taking an opponent for granted, especially on the world stage is a really bad quality for a champ to have.

Other than that, Lennox was a true ring general who could hit like a mule. Lennox for sure is one of the greatest HW's in the history of the sport.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

I don't blame him so much for the Mccall fight because Mccall landed a perfect punch, and he trained that move over and over with Manny Stewart before the Lewis fight because Manny felt it would work and open him up.

But the Rahman loss was stupid as hell. It was a matter of him getting cocky, lazy and getting his dick knocked into the dirt for it. Taking an opponent for granted, especially on the world stage is a really bad quality for a champ to have.

Other than that, Lennox was a true ring general who could hit like a mule. Lennox for sure is one of the greatest HW's in the history of the sport.

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Cant add much to this.

But, i would have loved to seen lewis spank bowe in the pro ranks.

It's so easy to criticise. I wish Lennox was still boxing today if only to pull Tyson Fury's head out of his own sphincter. Self belief is one thing, but thinking you are already the bees knees before you have seen the stamen is another thing entirely.

Tyson Fury unleashes a foul-mouthed Twitter tirade towards David Haye and Lennox Lewis | Boxing News | ESPN.co.uk

✔ @LennoxLewis

@tyson_Fury ☑Gold Medal ☑British ☑European ☑Commonwealth ☑WBC ☑Lineal ☑WBA ☑IBF
☑IBO ☑Ring ☑Undisputed ☑Boxing Hall of Fame

What a reply from Lewis.

Tyson is a complete clown. Accomplish something in the sport before you attack a guy like Lennox Lewis.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Lazy at times and lacked motivation.

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Agreed...Frank Bruno gave him a hell of a fight and that should have been a cakewalk for him if he was properly motivated.

There were times when he DID step up to the plate like a champ though. Golota, Grant, Botha, and the rematch vs Rahman.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Lazy at times and lacked motivation.

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Agreed...Frank Bruno gave him a hell of a fight and that should have been a cakewalk for him if he was properly motivated.

There were times when he DID step up to the plate like a champ though. Golota, Grant, Botha, and the rematch vs Rahman.

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Indeed. A motivated on top of his game Lewis most likely beats anyone in boxing history including the two holy grails.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

✔ @LennoxLewis

@tyson_Fury ☑Gold Medal ☑British ☑European ☑Commonwealth ☑WBC ☑Lineal ☑WBA ☑IBF
☑IBO ☑Ring ☑Undisputed ☑Boxing Hall of Fame

What a reply from Lewis.

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Brilliant. Lewis could probably knock out Fury tomorrow if they fought.

Attachment 2837

Marciano got knocked down by Archie Moore in his last fight and promptly retired. Lewis came back to avenge both his losses.

Lennox could be very cautious he bore me against Tua and he could have beaten Tyson earlier but was afraid. He even forced Tyson to face him without a warm up.

What Bruno could do was jab, very hard ramrod type Lewis would fight lazy at times, he could
be very annoying to watch at times.
Hell of a good boxer in his right mind set, his combination punches were wonderful at times pity
he used to switch off at times.!;)

When Manny took control of him he was a brilliant fighter just like Wlad.

Lewis is near the top no doubt his resume is pretty damn good only one better then his is Ali really. I mean resume for heavyweight it goes Ali, Lewis, Holyfeild, and Foreman then other Hw are lacking compared to them. Then when it comes to Title reign defenses it goes Louis, Holmes, Ali, and then Lewis so he is in top on both sides really. That's that half the reason Wlad will be in the top ten because his names are not great but shit if he keeps defending the belt like he does. His reign is going to be so high he going to get thrown up there pretty much because hes been top so long.

During his time as Heavyweight champion I was hot and cold when it came to Lewis but when Steward got his head straight I asked myself does Manny sere espresso between rounds. When he lost to McCall and Rahman he fought like a guy who went to bed at dawn just before his defense of the title. The saying still sticks, 10 percent perspiration and the other ninety percent inspiration. That was when he got caught or took others lightly but other than that he was ring smart and powerful. When he fought 100% no one could push him around and he had inspiration in his corner.

[QUOTE=SEANIE;1164010]Marciano got knocked down by Archie Moore in his last fight and promptly retired. Lewis came back to avenge both his losses.[/QUOTE]

this has GOT to be the greatest comment ever, of all time, on Saddoboxing.com

Lennox wont ever think of coming back if Vitali is still fighting... i've never seen a guy avoid a rematch like Lennox did... he said, "ill just retire"

Lewis was a big lumbering oaf...i have a picture on my wall that moves faster than Lewis! He got nailed twice, got a bad decision with Holyfield once, then was gifted the rematch. He then got out of dodge just as the Klitschko's came to town, he would've been pulverised in a rematch with Vitali. Lewis is over rated!
There you go criticism done and dusted!

Lewis avenged his knockout losses, so major credit for that. I liked him better than I do Wlad, 'cause Lewis could transform himself into Mr. Hyde when it suited him. Imagine the size, power, and skill of Lewis.... with the temperament of Mike Tyson. :o

I think having Tyson mindset would be a step back from Lewis for a few reason. Lewis had gears he could use if he was not winning and would adjust if need to. He also had it in him when he came in out of shape and lost to make everyone know he should not have by avenging it in a big way.

Overrated and the luckiest heavyweight in history.

He basically has two noteworthy names on his record: Holyfield and Tyson. Both Holyfield and Tyson were well past their best when he fought them. Tyson in particular was completely and utterly shot and a shell of the fighter he once was. I have no doubt that a peak Holyfield would have out worked him and won a points decision while prime Tyson would have turned Lewis into soup. I also believe Vitali would have beaten him in a rematch.

Lewis was the guy who always seemed to fight the right opponents at precisely the right time and has a very flattering record as a result. He did no better against a fighter like Ray Mercer than an ancient Larry Holmes did and this was the Larry Holmes completely destroyed by a peak Tyson several years earlier. He also struggled like hell against Bruno - a very limited fighter who was, again, completely outclassed and demolished by Tyson on two occasions. I don't suppose Holyfield or Bowe would have had any difficulty in beating Bruno either.

Had he fought peak Bowe he'd have been knocked out.

All in all, a pretty fortunate champion who always seemed to be in the right place at the right time throughout his career.

There are plenty of over rated Heavyweights but Lewis is not one of them. Seriously this thread is developing a higher Bullshit quota than the Rose gardens at the Chelsea Flower Show. He is the Last undisputed heavyweight champion of the world and because he happens to be tall, many of you are lumping him in with fighters not fit to do up his laces. Serious case of Butthurt form many Americans and irrationality from the others. Anyone would think he was some timid safety first pug who dwarfed everybody he fought. Revisionist krap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjC8W6iLEQ

Lewis was the best HW of the '90's imo. He could be quite lazy, in the way he fought and his mentality, but when he was focused he was top class. He fought some very good fighters and has the distinction of beating every man he ever fought. He didn't do it by staying at home and fighting no hopers either. As for the Vitali thing, well, an out of shape, 39 year old Lewis fought an entertaining, even fight with a young Vitali and left his face looking like it had been run over by a lawnmower. A rematch would have been nice but he was under no obligation to do it. We complain when fighter's keep having "one more fight" and damage their legacy by going on too long, but when Lewis decides that at the age of 39 he no longer has the desire or ability to box at an elite level he's accused of ducking someone he'd just stopped :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

There are plenty of over rated Heavyweights but Lewis is not one of them. Seriously this thread is developing a higher Bullshit quota than the Rose gardens at the Chelsea Flower Show. He is the Last undisputed heavyweight champion of the world and because he happens to be tall, many of you are lumping him in with fighters not fit to do up his laces. Serious case of Butthurt form many Americans and irrationality from the others. Anyone would think he was some timid safety first pug who dwarfed everybody he fought. Revisionist krap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjC8W6iLEQ

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Thank fuck for that.
This thread is embarrassing.
Just on the height thing -

Lennox Lewis 6'4 3/4" vs

V Klitschko 6'7
M Grant 6'7
A Golota 6'5
H Akinwande 6'7
T Tucker 6'5
T Biggs 6'5

These are some of the guys (the ones I could think of) that were taller than Lewis. His record against them - 6(5) & 0.

Well look who has a better resume then Lewis in top ten list Ali, Holyfeild has a case but he beat him although he was a tad older, then we have Foreman. Those are the only guys that could try to go against or bit better in resume. As for tittle reign there are few that come to mind a head of him but it is a few and i mean a few. Lewis no doubt breaks the top ten in the higher part i say in atg heavyweights and people saying he was lucky well missed him getting hit with not lucky but pretty rare well landed punches he showed were kinda flukes to beat him in rematch.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

There are plenty of over rated Heavyweights but Lewis is not one of them. Seriously this thread is developing a higher Bullshit quota than the Rose gardens at the Chelsea Flower Show. He is the Last undisputed heavyweight champion of the world and because he happens to be tall, many of you are lumping him in with fighters not fit to do up his laces. Serious case of Butthurt form many Americans and irrationality from the others. Anyone would think he was some timid safety first pug who dwarfed everybody he fought. Revisionist krap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjC8W6iLEQ

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oh come on Beanz. I couldnt give a shit about American vs English fighters vs Russian fighters, fuck them all and their flags. My faves were Duran of Panama, Tszyu of Russia, Scmeling of Germany and of course Rocky and Foreman and Aaron Pryor. National pride has piss to do with it with me. I just thought Lewis made a habit of leaning on the backs of his opponents, pushing down on their heads, holding behind the head, and holding and hitting, kinda like Ali. Powerful guy, no doubt, great jab, blew away Golota and etc....

but really why did he struggle with Mercer (Larry Holmes iced Mercer at age 43 the year before), why did he get hit so much against Zjelko Mavrovic, why did he get sparked stone cold against McCall and Rahman, why did he struggle so with Bruno?

Too many questions about him in my book. Alltime Great? YES. But up near #10, definitely not below #9.

Running like a bitch into retirement to avoid an ass whoopin from Vitali.

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Originally Posted by 15rounder

Running like a bitch into retirement to avoid an ass whoopin from Vitali.

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Like he did when he stopped him. Vitali got stopped by a cut big enough to hold a game of football in along with a myriad of other pot holes. Lennox was thinking of retirement before he fought him and is not obligated to stop the same man twice.

Not really. I cannot think of a major beef I have with him but when he first came around I couldn't stand him. A goofy footed new born elk...then he totally demolished Ruddock and I sat up straight! I actually really respect what he accomplished and the fact he fought all available. His go with Tucker was a snore. Don't hold his war with Mercer against him at all, he needed that. Should'nt have held down Grant like that but he was going to whip him regardless. Snoring slob vs McCall and it was right to be stopped and who cares if McCall melted down in rematch, that his fault. Thought Holyfield won the rematch but Lewis the 1st. Have to admit the whole Canadian-Jamaican-English thing was a mind fuck at first. Didn't he sue the wbc...so thats a plus. The Mavrovic fight was a bore. His win over Tua was master class I thought. Fat waddling troll doll that Tua was that night. On a mic for HBO he was a struggle, but often clashed with Kellerman which was fun. He was a top flight heavyweight champion and the sport was better for him!

I think he was a boring fighter and was the blueprint for Wlad who has taken it to the extreme. I watch a lot of older fights in my freetime, but I avoid Lewis like the plague. Just a boring man and a boring fighter. It was a joke fighting Tyson 15 years after his best and acting like it would seal the deal on his career.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I think he was a boring fighter and was the blueprint for Wlad who has taken it to the extreme. I watch a lot of older fights in my freetime, but I avoid Lewis like the plague. Just a boring man and a boring fighter. It was a joke fighting Tyson 15 years after his best and acting like it would seal the deal on his career.

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It did seal the deal on his career. There were loads of "experts" picking Tyson. He hadn't lost since Holyfield. It was never viewed as a mismatch. It was the highest earning fight in history (second now to Oscar-Floyd).

Just imagine how many threads, and how many thousands of boxing fans today, would be claiming "Tyson would have killed Lewis" had that fight not taken place?

A big criticism of Lewis was that he was always a terrible press conference brawler. Inside the ring he was a beast, but outside he was always getting his arse kicked.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I think he was a boring fighter and was the blueprint for Wlad who has taken it to the extreme. I watch a lot of older fights in my freetime, but I avoid Lewis like the plague. Just a boring man and a boring fighter. It was a joke fighting Tyson 15 years after his best and acting like it would seal the deal on his career.

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It did seal the deal on his career. There were loads of "experts" picking Tyson. He hadn't lost since Holyfield. It was never viewed as a mismatch. It was the highest earning fight in history (second now to Oscar-Floyd).

Just imagine how many threads, and how many thousands of boxing fans today, would be claiming "Tyson would have killed Lewis" had that fight not taken place?

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Fenster, anyone with any sense knew Tyson was a shell and was going to get destroyed. Stop making up stories.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I think he was a boring fighter and was the blueprint for Wlad who has taken it to the extreme. I watch a lot of older fights in my freetime, but I avoid Lewis like the plague. Just a boring man and a boring fighter. It was a joke fighting Tyson 15 years after his best and acting like it would seal the deal on his career.

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It did seal the deal on his career. There were loads of "experts" picking Tyson. He hadn't lost since Holyfield. It was never viewed as a mismatch. It was the highest earning fight in history (second now to Oscar-Floyd).

Just imagine how many threads, and how many thousands of boxing fans today, would be claiming "Tyson would have killed Lewis" had that fight not taken place?

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Fenster, anyone with any sense knew Tyson was a shell and was going to get destroyed. Stop making up stories.

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Plenty of "experts" have no sense then. I'm not the one rewriting history, i'm giving the truth, my personal views are not part of it.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

✔ @LennoxLewis

@tyson_Fury ☑Gold Medal ☑British ☑European ☑Commonwealth ☑WBC ☑Lineal ☑WBA ☑IBF
☑IBO ☑Ring ☑Undisputed ☑Boxing Hall of Fame

What a reply from Lewis.

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Lennox finally shaved his locks off!!

That means he's never coming back :(

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I think he was a boring fighter and was the blueprint for Wlad who has taken it to the extreme. I watch a lot of older fights in my freetime, but I avoid Lewis like the plague. Just a boring man and a boring fighter. It was a joke fighting Tyson 15 years after his best and acting like it would seal the deal on his career.

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It did seal the deal on his career. There were loads of "experts" picking Tyson. He hadn't lost since Holyfield. It was never viewed as a mismatch. It was the highest earning fight in history (second now to Oscar-Floyd).

Just imagine how many threads, and how many thousands of boxing fans today, would be claiming "Tyson would have killed Lewis" had that fight not taken place?

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You've got to be kidding.

Tyson was completely shot when he fought Lewis and was blowing hard after a couple of rounds. He was there for the taking and basically little more than an exhibition fighter at the time. He only ever had a puncher's chance and that was it.

Had they fought at Tyson's peak, Lewis would have been knocked out, no question. Anyone who gets stiffed by McCall and Rahman and struggles with an old Ray Mercer and Frank Bruno is not going to last very long with a peak Tyson.

The way Lewis talks anyone would think he had beaten the best fighters in their prime. The truth is he fought an old and knackered Tyson and a pretty much shot Holyfield. As I said, right place, right time.

He was also one of the most boring heavyweight champions in and out of the ring.