mubruk morsi
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mubruk morsi
Yeah how about you congratulate them once they actually figure out how to run a good stable government.
Obama looks like a fucking fool having this happen too....oh yeah he's loved a whole bunch over there, I mean that's what his people told us would happen :rolleyes:
Watched an interesting debate on Pbs last night. The motion was "better elected Islamists then dictators"
yep he is as he was born only 1000 km south of there.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
how about you get your head out of your arse and learn about democracy that doesn't begin with flag pledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Obama has fuck all to do with this and you're sounding like an idiot for bringing him in to this.
Ummm Obama has PLENTY to do with Morsi having been in power and if you don't believe that then it's rather ironic that you called ME an idiotQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missyhow about you get your head out of your arse and learn about democracy that doesn't begin with flag pledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Obama has fuck all to do with this and you're sounding like an idiot for bringing him in to this.
and the people got rid of him, you should be pleased :rolleyes:
The lesson to be learned is that the power of the people determines the course of their government. Get in the streets and fight.
The people didn't get rid of Morsi, the army did.
This is a bit of a dilemma: no matter whether we like it or not, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood were voted into power through Egypt's first ever free elections.
'Some' people (and we have no idea how many, nor what proportion of the population they were, came out on the streets to protest. The Army then intervened and - technically - carried out a military coup.
I'm not sure we would think that was OK usually.
So ...... democracy is a good thing - as long as you vote the right people in. If you make a mistake and vote in a useless government (and I can think of a few times this has happened in Western democracies), then it's OK to act undemocratically in the name of democracy?
Confused :confused:
Morsi had begun to dismantle democracy in a ploy by the Muslim brotherhood to introduce a dictatorial theocracy via the back door. The vast numbers on the street recorded by overhead cameras and independent bystanders, points in any calculable way, to being the largest protest in recorded human history. That seems pretty democratic in providing a mandate for change.
No. Obama hitched his wagon to the Arab Spring and stability was sacrificed for change. I'm not saying Mubarak and his ilk were perfect but #1 30 years worth of Egypt peacefully coexisting with Israel and #2 Egypt isn't a colony of the US they aren't a satellite state of ours how about we not get involved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
All the "anti-Obama" folks knew Morsi was shit and the Muslim Brotherhood was evil and now here we are and yet again Obama looks like a fool and makes the country look foolish too
The middle east is erupting on a few different fronts, Iraqs at it again.
I'm a little more worried about Turkey because that's heading towards Europe and we don't need further troubles breaking out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
um, poll tax?Quote:
Originally Posted by X
maybe people should actually listen to the people who live there and not the snippets on the news over here.
The egyptian people acted in a way that probably scares western govts. The way you lot are acting is as if they should have sat back and continue to wreck the country for a few more years?
The military (luckily for everyone) seem to have a good grasp of things and aren't overreaching their bounds. They are the sole reason Egypt is not a gigantic clusterfuck right now....granted I would rather the United States not fund them, but I do understand why we're Allied with them more so than the leaders of that country.
The leadership of a nation does not always have complete control over the military, history shows this to be the case more often than not.
So what you're saying is, the dictatorship that ruled Egypt for decades was a good thing and America should have continued to prop it up even though Egyptians were on the street demanding democratic elections and American foreign policy is supposed to be all about spreading democracy. America should have prevented those elections by some magical means, made all those Egyptians just go home and continue to live under dictatorship.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongNo. Obama hitched his wagon to the Arab Spring and stability was sacrificed for change. I'm not saying Mubarak and his ilk were perfect but #1 30 years worth of Egypt peacefully coexisting with Israel and #2 Egypt isn't a colony of the US they aren't a satellite state of ours how about we not get involved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
All the "anti-Obama" folks knew Morsi was shit and the Muslim Brotherhood was evil and now here we are and yet again Obama looks like a fool and makes the country look foolish too
And even though we've been propping up the previous dictatorship for decades you now think America should not get involved, even though you're blaming Obama for not getting involved to keep the dictatorship in power a couple of years ago. Got it.
It's what you call a "No win situation" Kirkland. Sure we helped solidify Mubarak's position, but then President Barack Hussein Obama recognized Morsi as President of Egypt and legitimized him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And how did the Egyptians like that?
http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/201...3122310543.jpg
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/....eaae970c-600wi
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/u...bama-Morsi.jpg
http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/ima...0713egypt1.jpg
Oh they LOVE Obama, I mean he's lowering the levels of the seas and we're loved throughout the world just as Messiah Obama had predicted
Here's a little advice for Barry "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain
But you supported a repressive dictator for decades, Lyle. You never had a problem with these dictators and how they 'controlled' the thick ignorant masses until it came to Obama playing the tried and trusted game.
......Obama is a moron, a lightweight, a "community organizer".....he has no couth and he has no gravitas on the world stage. He's the Jeff Lacy of World Leaders....people thought he was going to be super awesome but he's just looked like a God damned fool for his entire time in office.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
But you supported a repressive dictator for decades, Lyle. You never had a problem with these dictators and how they 'controlled' the thick ignorant masses until it came to Obama playing the tried and trusted game.
There comes a time when you have to cut your ties with those dictators when they overstep certain bounds. The Egyptian people had enough of Mubarak and so they (with the help of the military) threw him out, Obama's best choice would have been to shut the hell up and allow them to do what they wanted to do and not throw support behind a different dictator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The main Egyptian Allies the United States have are in the Military and they haven't gone anywhere. And why would they we give them planes and tanks and lord knows how much money. The Military run Egypt, they'll say who stays and who goes...the people of Egypt apparently don't understand that but whatever
Point is Obama lacks finesse with these situations and he clumsily said "yeah, Morsi is a great dude, let's give him legitimacy"....SHHHHHH Obama SHHHHHH just shut the fuck up. Say nothing about Morsi, let the Egyptians run Egypt...or allow them to think they do.
Powder!Keg!
Miles, there's a term that Obama should be familiar with (he's used it so often enough in his local scandals :rolleyes: )...."Plausible Deniability".....when Obama legitimized Morsi through his words and via the actions of one Anne Patterson ( Knives Come Out for U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson | The Cable ) they have lost any and all plausible deniability and credibility in the hearts of the average Egyptian.
THANKFULLY Obama has not destroyed our friendship with the Egyptian military. Egypt is a key ally, we can't fuck that shit up. There's not many countries the West can trust in the Middle East.
anyone else think we should change 'obama' to something funny to make lyle's rants more tolerable.
He's is a poor leader....are you attempting to say otherwise Missy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
you're obsessedQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe's is a poor leader....are you attempting to say otherwise Missy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
You know who. That Guy. Elsie Tanner. Pat Butcher. Haveabannana. Hannabarba. Bush. Barry Evans. Roy's son. Iggle Piggle. Peppa Pig. Mr Blobby. Godzilla. ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
All of your leaders are poor, so at least be consistent with that argument. Also, the only reason you want 'allies' in the middle east is to sustain oil supply. You couldn't care less about Egyptian democracy in the past so I find it interesting that you now have an interest when Obama can be attached to it. America has always been in support of non-democratic regimes in the middle east in order to maintain an oil supply that is cheap. Israel and Egypt are about the region cogs working nicely and little more. Obama is like all recent Presidents in that he has next to no interest in Egyptian democracy. On that basis you cannot make Obama a special case. If you are to argue that Obama should be in support of democracy then you should apply it to all the nations that America deals with and democracy is the least of their concerns in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe's is a poor leader....are you attempting to say otherwise Missy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Even the ones who fought to make certain that where you currently reside is a free place?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfAll of your leaders are poor, so at least be consistent with that argument. Also, the only reason you want 'allies' in the middle east is to sustain oil supply. You couldn't care less about Egyptian democracy in the past so I find it interesting that you now have an interest when Obama can be attached to it. America has always been in support of non-democratic regimes in the middle east in order to maintain an oil supply that is cheap. Israel and Egypt are about the region cogs working nicely and little more. Obama is like all recent Presidents in that he has next to no interest in Egyptian democracy. On that basis you cannot make Obama a special case. If you are to argue that Obama should be in support of democracy then you should apply it to all the nations that America deals with and democracy is the least of their concerns in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe's is a poor leader....are you attempting to say otherwise Missy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Fuck off miles
Eh? You as an American today should not talk to anyone about a place being 'free' and your country couldn't care less that Korea was a dictatorship for decades afterwards. You came here for 'freedom' and stayed friends with a dictator as always. The Korean people made this place free, not America (and it was the UN including my country too). America only changes its political argument when it has lost and then it supports the other side.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongEven the ones who fought to make certain that where you currently reside is a free place?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfAll of your leaders are poor, so at least be consistent with that argument. Also, the only reason you want 'allies' in the middle east is to sustain oil supply. You couldn't care less about Egyptian democracy in the past so I find it interesting that you now have an interest when Obama can be attached to it. America has always been in support of non-democratic regimes in the middle east in order to maintain an oil supply that is cheap. Israel and Egypt are about the region cogs working nicely and little more. Obama is like all recent Presidents in that he has next to no interest in Egyptian democracy. On that basis you cannot make Obama a special case. If you are to argue that Obama should be in support of democracy then you should apply it to all the nations that America deals with and democracy is the least of their concerns in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHe's is a poor leader....are you attempting to say otherwise Missy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Fuck off miles
Your arguments are weak and silly and thus you get all defensive and angry. You couldn't care less about freedom. Where is your disgruntlement about Saudi Arabia, your biggest Middle East oil buddy? And yet you care about Egyptians now and tell me to fuck off without addressing anything I said.
Wanker.
miles your views are always and forever 100% Anti-America...you bitch and whine over slavery and slaughter of Indians and you lament those things as if they fucking happened 10 minutes ago. I don't respect your view on America because you're at your core an anti-American you feign outrage over various scandals but it means fuck all because YOU ALWAYS HATE AMERICA....ALWAYS you never fucking change and I'm tired of it. We know your fucking views on America already you dim witted cunt....I don't have to read your posts, I already know. Fuck off miles, take your anti-establishment and white guilt and peddle that shit elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
You still failed to address a single point and that is because you are brainwashed with no idea about the real world having never lived beyond your borders nor your television. You have no idea about how people really percieve Americans, they despise you. You have an Empire and feed your population on cheap oil and greasy food. It is unsustainable and that is why your country wants to befriend countries like Saudi Arabia, gives billions to Israel, and invades countries like Iraq and arms Syrian rebels.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabongmiles your views are always and forever 100% Anti-America...you bitch and whine over slavery and slaughter of Indians and you lament those things as if they fucking happened 10 minutes ago. I don't respect your view on America because you're at your core an anti-American you feign outrage over various scandals but it means fuck all because YOU ALWAYS HATE AMERICA....ALWAYS you never fucking change and I'm tired of it. We know your fucking views on America already you dim witted cunt....I don't have to read your posts, I already know. Fuck off miles, take your anti-establishment and white guilt and peddle that shit elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I have no guilt whatsoever as I was never complicit and have always told the truth. You on the other hand are a complete hypocrite based an false party distinctions.
The point is you hate America 100%, it's founding and everything that's happened afterwards ergo your views are irrelevant. Do you understand that? Do you get that? And yet you still act like you like Americans and you want them to like you....how fucking dumb do you have to be miles?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfYou still failed to address a single point and that is because you are brainwashed with no idea about the real world having never lived beyond your borders nor your television. You have no idea about how people really percieve Americans, they despise you. You have an Empire and feed your population on cheap oil and greasy food. It is unsustainable and that is why your country wants to befriend countries like Saudi Arabia, gives billions to Israel, and invades countries like Iraq and arms Syrian rebels.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabongmiles your views are always and forever 100% Anti-America...you bitch and whine over slavery and slaughter of Indians and you lament those things as if they fucking happened 10 minutes ago. I don't respect your view on America because you're at your core an anti-American you feign outrage over various scandals but it means fuck all because YOU ALWAYS HATE AMERICA....ALWAYS you never fucking change and I'm tired of it. We know your fucking views on America already you dim witted cunt....I don't have to read your posts, I already know. Fuck off miles, take your anti-establishment and white guilt and peddle that shit elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I have no guilt whatsoever as I was never complicit and have always told the truth. You on the other hand are a complete hypocrite based an false party distinctions.
It is a stupid asinine argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThe point is you hate America 100%, it's founding and everything that's happened afterwards ergo your views are irrelevant. Do you understand that? Do you get that? And yet you still act like you like Americans and you want them to like you....how fucking dumb do you have to be miles?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfYou still failed to address a single point and that is because you are brainwashed with no idea about the real world having never lived beyond your borders nor your television. You have no idea about how people really percieve Americans, they despise you. You have an Empire and feed your population on cheap oil and greasy food. It is unsustainable and that is why your country wants to befriend countries like Saudi Arabia, gives billions to Israel, and invades countries like Iraq and arms Syrian rebels.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabongmiles your views are always and forever 100% Anti-America...you bitch and whine over slavery and slaughter of Indians and you lament those things as if they fucking happened 10 minutes ago. I don't respect your view on America because you're at your core an anti-American you feign outrage over various scandals but it means fuck all because YOU ALWAYS HATE AMERICA....ALWAYS you never fucking change and I'm tired of it. We know your fucking views on America already you dim witted cunt....I don't have to read your posts, I already know. Fuck off miles, take your anti-establishment and white guilt and peddle that shit elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I have no guilt whatsoever as I was never complicit and have always told the truth. You on the other hand are a complete hypocrite based an false party distinctions.
This thread is saying 'Well done Egypt' and you stormed in talking complete nonsense. I broke down your argument perfectly, brilliantly and all you could do was say 'Fuck off, miles'. Well, that is fine with me and you can say I hate America all you want. These are not the McCarthy hearings. You are not driving me away, and as you can see, nobody agrees with you.
You keep bringing intelligence into it and it is something I have noticed a lot with you recently and of course hating America. I love American people. Lou Reed, Noam Chomsky, Steven Spielberg etc etc. They are all American, they are all Jewish too.
See it is that issue you have. You cannot differentiate politics from people. YOU hate Obama and all that support him and yet blame ME for hating America. You are completely off your rocker. You hate America a lot more than I do!
Yes you do make it so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I don't hate America at all, the people you name HATE America....fuck Noam Chomsky that old fuck, he's as dumb as dog shit! He doesn't deal in reality he deals in theories, the classroom is the land of make believe miles....real shit doesn't happen in classrooms.
What would you know about that? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYes you do make it so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I don't hate America at all, the people you name HATE America....fuck Noam Chomsky that old fuck, he's as dumb as dog shit! He doesn't deal in reality he deals in theories, the classroom is the land of make believe miles....real shit doesn't happen in classrooms.
Noam Chomsky is merely a front for all the hard work. The local people do the hard work.
What do you know about anything, Lyle? You have never lived beyond your own state, let alone a border, or in a place knowing what your nations foreign policy is really like.
You critique classrooms and I would agree with you if you are talking your own. America is done if you are the consequence.
Chomsky is a bloated idiotQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I know a lot more about America than you do miles. You've got your head rammed so far up Chomsky's ass I'm surprised you can read what I've posted.
I am the consequence of thinking for myself which is why I constantly question the media and the government. You are the consequence of putting your faith in a man who has made his money spouting bullshit and NEVER having the balls to test his quaint little theories in the real world....you're a teacher you don't live in the real world, you live in a classroom.....pathetic
Eh? Again. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongChomsky is a bloated idiotQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I know a lot more about America than you do miles. You've got your head rammed so far up Chomsky's ass I'm surprised you can read what I've posted.
I am the consequence of thinking for myself which is why I constantly question the media and the government. You are the consequence of putting your faith in a man who has made his money spouting bullshit and NEVER having the balls to test his quaint little theories in the real world....you're a teacher you don't live in the real world, you live in a classroom.....pathetic
You know as much about America as your television, Lyle. You hate your President in all kinds of irrational ways and don't back it up with facts. Chomsky has always backed it up with facts and doesn't reverse and lie like you do. You lie about Obama as you supported Bush doing the same things. Show me the same Chomsky hypocrisy and I might agree with you, you pathetic horrid, bullying piece of shit. And yes, Lyle, you avoided EVERY previous argument.
Examples of my "lies about Obama"? and my supporting of Bush doing "the same things"?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfEh? Again. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongChomsky is a bloated idiotQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I know a lot more about America than you do miles. You've got your head rammed so far up Chomsky's ass I'm surprised you can read what I've posted.
I am the consequence of thinking for myself which is why I constantly question the media and the government. You are the consequence of putting your faith in a man who has made his money spouting bullshit and NEVER having the balls to test his quaint little theories in the real world....you're a teacher you don't live in the real world, you live in a classroom.....pathetic
You know as much about America as your television, Lyle. You hate your President in all kinds of irrational ways and don't back it up with facts. Chomsky has always backed it up with facts and doesn't reverse and lie like you do. You lie about Obama as you supported Bush doing the same things. Show me the same Chomsky hypocrisy and I might agree with you, you pathetic horrid, bullying piece of shit. And yes, Lyle, you avoided EVERY previous argument.
You are asking for facts now after telling me to fuck off?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongExamples of my "lies about Obama"? and my supporting of Bush doing "the same things"?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfEh? Again. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongChomsky is a bloated idiotQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I know a lot more about America than you do miles. You've got your head rammed so far up Chomsky's ass I'm surprised you can read what I've posted.
I am the consequence of thinking for myself which is why I constantly question the media and the government. You are the consequence of putting your faith in a man who has made his money spouting bullshit and NEVER having the balls to test his quaint little theories in the real world....you're a teacher you don't live in the real world, you live in a classroom.....pathetic
You know as much about America as your television, Lyle. You hate your President in all kinds of irrational ways and don't back it up with facts. Chomsky has always backed it up with facts and doesn't reverse and lie like you do. You lie about Obama as you supported Bush doing the same things. Show me the same Chomsky hypocrisy and I might agree with you, you pathetic horrid, bullying piece of shit. And yes, Lyle, you avoided EVERY previous argument.
Your lies and distortions are obvious. Where are your facts about Chomsky, the bloated idiot, you fat disgusting slob of a sweaty freak?