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Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
We always talk about the behind the scenes cheating like roids and massive weight gain at fight time but glove shaving continues right under our noses and it never gets a mention. The advantage is more then obvious.
The first two pics are from the Moises Fuentes card in Mexico last week and on the under-card, David de lamora got upset by southpaw tough guy Lecona. You cant even see the Reyes logo. Its criminal or should be.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps94838638.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps7ad2ddbe.jpg
Mab is one of my favourite fighters all time but he got away with it for years.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0c468c73.jpg
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
You can stop it from happening. Your corner man is in the other guy's dressing room watching them wrap his hands and glove up; that is his scrawl on the tape. Refuse to sign off on it.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
I never even knew this happened
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cambay411
I never even knew this happened
I think it began with the on-set of the thumbless gloves- the attached thumb gloves- and is an effort to keep the fist tighter than the glove would normally allow. That is just my opinion and observation, I haven't studied it.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
You can stop it from happening. Your corner man is in the other guy's dressing room watching them wrap his hands and glove up; that is his scrawl on the tape. Refuse to sign off on it.
If it was only that easy. Many corners leave after the knuckle wrapping and many Commissions sign off on the tape w/o really looking. How the ref allows this is also incomprehensible.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
I've never noticed this before.
I assume the goal is to make a stronger wrist/more compact fist resulting in harder punches?
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
The gloves have obviously been skinned. But they haven't been shaved. Or maybe they have. No way to tell. Who cares if they have anyway? Glove shaving is when you apply shaving gel to the glove to help break it in. It provides no advantage to a fighter at all
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
This and lightly rubbing the front of the gloves with sandpaper, just enough to make it rugged without making it obviously noticeable.
Causes cuts and grazes with ease.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Interesting I had never noticed that either. Many thanks for bringing this to light!
Who have been the worst abusers of this tactic?
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Interesting I had never noticed that either. Many thanks for bringing this to light!
Who have been the worst abusers of this tactic?
Hard to say. It goes unreported so much. Its like the culling of sled dogs. Its one of boxings dirty little secrets. Its a shame there are not uniform rules as again the advantage is patently obvious, A club vs a pillow. You wont get away with it in NY. That commission watches everything including your dick as you piss in the cup. Lots of commissions don't even watch the hand wrapping or the gloves being taped. I've only seen a ref pull tape off a few times. Once by Halpern and Mercante Sr. and I cant recall who else. It happens more at smaller venues but as Mabs pic proves the higher profile venues are not immune.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
I've never noticed this before.
I assume the goal is to make a stronger wrist/more compact fist resulting in harder punches?
Exactly.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
I've never noticed this before.
I assume the goal is to make a stronger wrist/more compact fist resulting in harder punches?
Exactly.
Easier to split the guard too I assume
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Talk about loading a glove from the outside in. Looks like a neck brace for the forearm, turns a slappy clipping shot into a club. Scuff up the tape, fold it over...viola I'm now punching you with a plastic cheese grater. I wouldn't really put it on the ref though, they have to deal with what's introduced to the ring or from corner between rounds. Should be stopped before the bell rings. We can't even count on a ref to score proper knock downs lately.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Talk about loading a glove from the outside in. Looks like a neck brace for the forearm, turns a slappy clipping shot into a club. Scuff up the tape, fold it over...viola I'm now punching you with a plastic cheese grater. I wouldn't really put it on the ref though, they have to deal with what's introduced to the ring or from corner between rounds. Should be stopped before the bell rings. We can't even count on a ref to score proper knock downs lately.
The whole point about the tape around the cuff of the glove was to eliminate the 'cheese-rater' effect. Cover up the laces. In the old days- I remember seeing this into the early 1970s- guys would use the laces on the gloves like a razor. These days you don't see the cuts and scuff marks like you used to so I don't think that the tape is much of a weapon in that fashion- most cuts, with the bigger gloves and all, come from elbows or heads.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Talk about loading a glove from the outside in. Looks like a neck brace for the forearm, turns a slappy clipping shot into a club. Scuff up the tape, fold it over...viola I'm now punching you with a plastic cheese grater. I wouldn't really put it on the ref though, they have to deal with what's introduced to the ring or from corner between rounds. Should be stopped before the bell rings. We can't even count on a ref to score proper knock downs lately.
The whole point about the tape around the cuff of the glove was to eliminate the 'cheese-rater' effect. Cover up the laces. In the old days- I remember seeing this into the early 1970s- guys would use the laces on the gloves like a razor. These days you don't see the cuts and scuff marks like you used to so I don't think that the tape is much of a weapon in that fashion- most cuts, with the bigger gloves and all, come from elbows or heads.
Oh yeh without a doubt, guys could perfect a glancing lace as much as a pin point uppercut. Still though if there is the intent to bend for an advantage in the first place tape riding off the wrist may do it also. Kills me how far the sport has come but how often we still see stoppages for rewraps, flapping tape etc. I remember always hearing a few guys calling for a rule across the board to use plain ol duct tape or like more adhesive material but seems nothing came of it. Good call on the elbow...more and more I notice guys almost using a chicken wing as a short floating jab, it's hardly ever called!
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Talk about loading a glove from the outside in. Looks like a neck brace for the forearm, turns a slappy clipping shot into a club. Scuff up the tape, fold it over...viola I'm now punching you with a plastic cheese grater. I wouldn't really put it on the ref though, they have to deal with what's introduced to the ring or from corner between rounds. Should be stopped before the bell rings. We can't even count on a ref to score proper knock downs lately.
The whole point about the tape around the cuff of the glove was to eliminate the 'cheese-rater' effect. Cover up the laces. In the old days- I remember seeing this into the early 1970s- guys would use the laces on the gloves like a razor. These days you don't see the cuts and scuff marks like you used to so I don't think that the tape is much of a weapon in that fashion- most cuts, with the bigger gloves and all, come from elbows or heads.
Oh yeh without a doubt, guys could perfect a glancing lace as much as a pin point uppercut. Still though if there is the intent to bend for an advantage in the first place tape riding off the wrist may do it also. Kills me how far the sport has come but how often we still see stoppages for rewraps, flapping tape etc. I remember always hearing a few guys calling for a rule across the board to use plain ol duct tape or like more adhesive material but seems nothing came of it. Good call on the elbow...more and more I notice guys almost using a chicken wing as a short floating jab, it's hardly ever called!
They would rub the laces across the opponent's eyes in the clinches- get the ref screened to one side and, on the other side, go to work. Kind of like in pro wrestling. You can land the elbow on the follow through of any punch and some guys make it an art form. Michael Spinks and Happy Lora come immediately to mind.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Talk about loading a glove from the outside in. Looks like a neck brace for the forearm, turns a slappy clipping shot into a club. Scuff up the tape, fold it over...viola I'm now punching you with a plastic cheese grater. I wouldn't really put it on the ref though, they have to deal with what's introduced to the ring or from corner between rounds. Should be stopped before the bell rings. We can't even count on a ref to score proper knock downs lately.
The whole point about the tape around the cuff of the glove was to eliminate the 'cheese-rater' effect. Cover up the laces. In the old days- I remember seeing this into the early 1970s- guys would use the laces on the gloves like a razor. These days you don't see the cuts and scuff marks like you used to so I don't think that the tape is much of a weapon in that fashion- most cuts, with the bigger gloves and all, come from elbows or heads.
Oh yeh without a doubt, guys could perfect a glancing lace as much as a pin point uppercut. Still though if there is the intent to bend for an advantage in the first place tape riding off the wrist may do it also. Kills me how far the sport has come but how often we still see stoppages for rewraps, flapping tape etc. I remember always hearing a few guys calling for a rule across the board to use plain ol duct tape or like more adhesive material but seems nothing came of it. Good call on the elbow...more and more I notice guys almost using a chicken wing as a short floating jab, it's hardly ever called!
They would rub the laces across the opponent's eyes in the clinches- get the ref screened to one side and, on the other side, go to work. Kind of like in pro wrestling. You can land the elbow on the follow through of any punch and some guys make it an art form. Michael Spinks and Happy Lora come immediately to mind.
Like a power shot with a built in blinding jab the glove. Antonio demarco vs Edwin Valero. I like Demarco but one of those along the ropes looked as targeted as they come, Valero looked like he was attacked with a hatchet!
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
One of my favorites was Pintor vs Wilfredo Gomez. There were times when Gomez didn't even try to hide it and went with nothing but low blows and elbow smashes. And the second davila vs Happy Lora fight, Lora gave a clinic on how to use the elbows.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
One of my favorites was Pintor vs Wilfredo Gomez. There were times when Gomez didn't even try to hide it and went with nothing but low blows and elbow smashes. And the second davila vs Happy Lora fight, Lora gave a clinic on how to use the elbows.
Nice! Back when 'Nawlins knew how to host a classic. Pintor had him there pounding Gomez into hamburger meat until the roof caved in on him. Calm customer Pintor through all the rough stuff and Gomez trying to almost neuter him!
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Call me thick but am I missing something? All I see is extra bandage around the wrist.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Call me thick but am I missing something? All I see is extra bandage around the wrist.
The idea is to pack the fist, so to speak. You can do the same thing with hand wraps but they keep an eye on that, so you skin (shave) the glove. Like you see with the tape.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Also, this works real well with Reyes gloves. If you notice, they have a longer cuff. Well, all that goes into the weight of the glove. An 18 oz glove doesn't mean 18 oz of padding over the knuckles. With Reyes, a lot of the weight is in the cuff and on the back of the hand, relatively light over the part where punches land; this is why they are known as punchers gloves.
What you are doing with all that tape, you are skinning it back, pushing the padding back and taping it down, because it moves, and you want your punches to land with as much of that heavily taped and tightly wrapped fist getting through as possible.
In the old days they wrapped hands with packing tape and fought with 4 oz gloves and it is a miracle (and a testament to defensive skill) that anybody survived.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
The amount of tape on those gloves is ridiculous!!! Normally I tried to peal back some of the material by crossing my laces on the backside of the glove up high and feeding the padding back toward the wrists and then secure it by tightening down the laces! Then you use tape to cover the laces!
Whats more incredible to me is how often fighters are hitting pads with "fight gloves on"!!!
Warming up in the locker area using mitts is inzane! No way does that happen to anyone I'm in charge of! Ray.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
I don't have a problem with skinning the gloves. Nothing is being taken out of the glove. And nothing is being added to the glove. The tape is just being placed a certain way. Does it help the fighter? Yes it does. But it's not illegal. So there is no reason why both fighters shouldn't be doing it
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Fuck I never even know about this. How fucking useless are the athletic commisions if guys are getting away with this shit?
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Damn just watching a card from Mexico. Javier Quiebra vs Gerardo González. The tape line is right at the bottom of the thumb. Never seen tape that high before.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Damn just watching a card from Mexico. Javier Quiebra vs Gerardo González. The tape line is right at the bottom of the thumb. Never seen tape that high before.
Got a picture? Still can't get it into my head what is the big deal.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Barrera is the first fighter that comes to mind when I hear glove shaving.. he did it often but never got called out on it.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Damn just watching a card from Mexico. Javier Quiebra vs Gerardo González. The tape line is right at the bottom of the thumb. Never seen tape that high before.
Got a picture? Still can't get it into my head what is the big deal.
Gloves should have a smooth shiny surface that glides over skin, not a rough surface that creates friction and pulls the skin.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Damn just watching a card from Mexico. Javier Quiebra vs Gerardo González. The tape line is right at the bottom of the thumb. Never seen tape that high before.
Got a picture? Still can't get it into my head what is the big deal.
Already some in the thread but here:
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1261988488
I cant find a pic from last night yet but have a gif but it was worse then the above. Its not hard to imagine what this does for punches. Imo its loading gloves w/o putting anything in or taking anything out.
This I also posted. Its a fight awhile back between Lecona vs Fuentes and Fuentes was upset. Like the Mab pic, you cant even see the Reyes logo. I'm not trying to single out Mexico but its quite prominent.
http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/fuen...-vs-verde6.jpg
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Why do Mexican fighters cheat so damn much? Why is it that Mexican boxing so much more dirtier than any other boxing town? Geezus... I would never fight in Mexico if I were a fighter, and would have the strictest rules for Mexican fighters fighting me on my home turf or away from Mexico.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
to clarify, it would make sense to me that by binding the glove higher it 'may' cause it to compact - some of you are you are saying the opposite is true, that you are able to 'massage' the padding down the glove away from the knuckle.
A rep from the opposing fighers corner if not the trainer, commission are present when wrapping and they don't complain. The ref doesn't complain, they will say 'as discussed in the dressing room these shorts are a little high', etc. The rest of the corner and fighter could also complain before the first bell.....so why don't they?
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
to clarify, it would make sense to me that by binding the glove higher it 'may' cause it to compact - some of you are you are saying the opposite is true, that you are able to 'massage' the padding down the glove away from the knuckle.
A rep from the opposing fighers corner if not the trainer, commission are present when wrapping and they don't complain. The ref doesn't complain, they will say 'as discussed in the dressing room these shorts are a little high', etc. The rest of the corner and fighter could also complain before the first bell.....so why don't they?
I dont think its to do with moving the padding. More likely that its done as an extra bonus that something extra is there to drag across the skin on the face should the punch not land clean.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Why do Mexican fighters cheat so damn much? Why is it that Mexican boxing so much more dirtier than any other boxing town? Geezus... I would never fight in Mexico if I were a fighter, and would have the strictest rules for Mexican fighters fighting me on my home turf or away from Mexico.
Its not just Mexico but it seems almost normal there. They do it all over Asia and lets not forget that many have gotten away with it in the States also. Ones fist becomes the end of a cast. I bet the ko% in a study would be somewhat alarming.
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People need to understand that prefight stuff is shockingly lax compared to what you'd expect.
Trainers watching the opponent wrap is actually rare.
Different commission have different rules. Sometimes a commissioner will leave it to his deputy to watch the wrap. Some commissions watch the wrap and then leave the dressing room.
New York stays the whole time and watches everything but that's the exception not the rule. Different rules for different places.
If you need the money you aren't going too complain and risk not getting paid. Until there is unity in boxing you have to protect yourself. That's sad, you should only have to worry about fighting.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
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Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
to clarify, it would make sense to me that by binding the glove higher it 'may' cause it to compact - some of you are you are saying the opposite is true, that you are able to 'massage' the padding down the glove away from the knuckle.
A rep from the opposing fighers corner if not the trainer, commission are present when wrapping and they don't complain. The ref doesn't complain, they will say 'as discussed in the dressing room these shorts are a little high', etc. The rest of the corner and fighter could also complain before the first bell.....so why don't they?
I dont think its to do with moving the padding. More likely that its done as an extra bonus that something extra is there to drag across the skin on the face should the punch not land clean.
that would make more sense but again. Everyone involved should take responsibility for the safety of the fighter - including the fighter!
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
People need to understand that prefight stuff is shockingly lax compared to what you'd expect.
Trainers watching the opponent wrap is actually rare.
Different commission have different rules. Sometimes a commissioner will leave it to his deputy to watch the wrap. Some commissions watch the wrap and then leave the dressing room.
New York stays the whole time and watches everything but that's the exception not the rule. Different rules for different places.
If you need the money you aren't going too complain and risk not getting paid. Until there is unity in boxing you have to protect yourself. That's sad, you should only have to worry about fighting.
Then they have a shitty trainer. The guys I know look after their fighters well and being pissy and saying no to anything shady is part of that job.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
You wonder why, in all those pictures, one guy has his gloves taped up high and the other guy doesn't? If it is such an incredible advantage...is one side ignorant of that? I doubt that one camp is that much more ethical than the other- my experiences tell me that that is not the case. Maybe they think they are gaining some advantage by taping the other way?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
People need to understand that prefight stuff is shockingly lax compared to what you'd expect.
Trainers watching the opponent wrap is actually rare.
Different commission have different rules. Sometimes a commissioner will leave it to his deputy to watch the wrap. Some commissions watch the wrap and then leave the dressing room.
New York stays the whole time and watches everything but that's the exception not the rule. Different rules for different places.
If you need the money you aren't going too complain and risk not getting paid. Until there is unity in boxing you have to protect yourself. That's sad, you should only have to worry about fighting.
Then they have a shitty trainer. The guys I know look after their fighters well and being pissy and saying no to anything shady is part of that job.
I agree fundamentally. But it's not that black and white. In North America or Europe it should be that simple. But what about the guy in San Salvador who has training expenses and needs his pay to keep food on the table. He is going to go forward with the fight if there's razor wire onthe gloves. Not everyone can afford a proper team or even a proper trainer.
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Re: Glove shaving. It should be outlawed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Damn just watching a card from Mexico. Javier Quiebra vs Gerardo González. The tape line is right at the bottom of the thumb. Never seen tape that high before.
Got a picture? Still can't get it into my head what is the big deal.
Just picture a pillow, you can grab a pillow by the very corner fabric and suspend it whilst the padding falls to the bottom part of a fabric. The padding in the boxing glove obviously doesn't shift that dramatically but the principle is the same. So what these guys are doing is shifting more of the padding towards the lower part of the glove and keeping it in place by securing it with the tape that should only be there to keep the laces intact. It should be illegal but you see it in Mexico constantly. What happened the cuffs Everlast had come out with that covered the tape or could in effect render tape useless. They were designed to go over the laces but the commissions still made guys tape up anyways. Mandating those would probably eliminate this and there would be no more stoppages for loose tape. At least the cuff over the tape would make any attempts at "skinning" completely obvious.
Jermain Taylor wearing those cuffs I mentioned. http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...g-lacy-jpg.jpg
