Young favored prospect getting schooled by the veteran?

I kinda have a soft spot for these instances.

Price getting upset twice by Thompson had me thinking back to these fights.

I remembered when Calzaghe ate Lacy's soul. I'm not sure how the Brits saw that one going in, but the consensus in North America seemed to be that Lacy was going to kill Calzaghe, who was nothing more than a flower punch, brittle handed, injury prone, untested, sheltered Brit fighter.

And of course who could forget Bhop toying with then #1 MW Kelly Pavlik in a similar dominant fashion.

What were the best instances of a young, FAVORED prospect getting schooled by an underdog veteran?

I wonder if @ross has an example he'd like to share with the group? ;D

I think the consensus everywhere was that Calzaghe was going to get bashed up.

Actually high jacking Ross's example, Rothmann was supposed to wipe the floor with Thompson.

Nicky Piper was going places too until he ran into guess who.

FNF's was full of these upsets in 2012.

As ross has been notified of this thread - i'd just like to get Lolenga Mock in now. Did you know he once knocked Haye down? Amazing.

Fury isn't allowed to be mentioned in this thread as he isn't a prospect anymore... In his own words, he is the perfect specimen of a man and the best since Ali!























He's definitely a specimen...

David Haye vs Carl Thompson of course.

Ray Mercer's 1st loss. It was to an old Larry Holmes. Mercer had just stopped Tommy Morrison the fight before.
Ray Mercer against Jesse Ferguson 1 year after the Holmes loss.

Michael Grant vs Lennox Lewis.

Joe Lipsy vs Bernard Hopkins.
Kelly Pavlik vs Hopkins.

Felix Trinidad vs Bernard Hopkins. Trinidad was no prospect; he was already a Champion, but people thought the young hotshot would take out the old veteran. Instead it was a man against a boy.

The Great Joe Louis' 1st loss. To former champ, Max Schmeling.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Fury isn't allowed to be mentioned in this thread as he isn't a prospect anymore... In his own words, he is the perfect specimen of a man and the best since All!



He's definitely a specimen...

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He hasnt been beaten so no need for him to be mentioned.

But yes your right, blatantly obvious, as others have stated, Haye got well shown up against Thompson. ;)

What about Wlad v Haye, would that count?

Froch v Bute?

Hasnt Jerge Arce upset a few contenders?

Simon Brown being schooled by Marlon Starling.
Bert Cooper v Carl Williams.
Thats the best two that spring to mind

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I wonder if @ross has an example he'd like to share with the group? ;D

I think the consensus everywhere was that Calzaghe was going to get bashed up.

Actually high jacking Ross's example, Rothmann was supposed to wipe the floor with Thompson.

Nicky Piper was going places too until he ran into guess who.

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One of the best fights I've seen.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Fury isn't allowed to be mentioned in this thread as he isn't a prospect anymore... In his own words, he is the perfect specimen of a man and the best since Ali!























He's definitely a specimen...

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Too bad that specimen wasn't shot into a test tube and never used.

Jim Watt got beat and schooled by Ken Buchanan.

I ALMOST FORGOT -

Haye v Fury .

Duran demolishing Moore? Reggie Johnson welcoming William Guthrie to the real world. Rubio v Bojado. Nate Campbell battering Kid Diamond! Any random handful of Glen Johnson upsets, rob jobs and revocations of father time.

Pazienza's knockout of Rosenblatt was pretty surprising.

Charles "The Hatchet" Brewer vs. Scott Pemberton in a knock down drag out war.

Jesse James Leija vs. Lazcano, Camacho Jr. and Camacho.

For my money he beat all three, schooled em. He was a great lil fighter.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Charles "The Hatchet" Brewer vs. Scott Pemberton in a knock down drag out war.

Jesse James Leija vs. Lazcano, Camacho Jr. and Camacho.

For my money he beat all three, schooled em. He was a great lil fighter.

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Man I always really liked Brewer. The literal definition of fun tv and live by the sword due by the sword. He had a couple losses to the same 40 loss guy very early on. Thomas ? He just couldn't figure him out.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Charles "The Hatchet" Brewer vs. Scott Pemberton in a knock down drag out war.

Jesse James Leija vs. Lazcano, Camacho Jr. and Camacho.

For my money he beat all three, schooled em. He was a great lil fighter.

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Lazcano, Camacho Jr. and Bojado. He was pretty good.

Fernando Geurrero getting that ass beat by Grady brewer..

Zab was more than a prospect by this time, but a younger and huge favorite. Kostya took him to chin school.

That KO was the first time I've ever seen a guy get up and then fall after looking like he got hit again. The fall after was harder than the actual contact fall. He did the stanky leg. He even looked te wrong way, away from his opponent. I love Zab , but that's an all time memory burnt into my brain.

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Originally Posted by jon09

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Charles "The Hatchet" Brewer vs. Scott Pemberton in a knock down drag out war.

Jesse James Leija vs. Lazcano, Camacho Jr. and Camacho.

For my money he beat all three, schooled em. He was a great lil fighter.

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Lazcano, Camacho Jr. and Bojado. He was pretty good.

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Yes. Damn it I had a brain lapse and wrote Camcho for some reason. Bojado got schooled and Ledderman had it scored for Bojado the crook!

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs verteran. The rest are just moronic examples

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs verteran. The rest are just moronic examples

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Not when he lost to Thompson. Thompson had been around years and been dropped in nearly all his later fights, lost 6 times KO'd 5. He had just beaten Rothman but took an absolute hiding before stopping Rothman and he then retired. Haye was coming through and brought Thompson out of retirement to have his name on his record and the concesus was that Haye would rip right through him but after throwing everything at Thompson and failing even to drop him, he started getting tagged himself. He got dropped and was on shaky legs while Thompson wailed away and the ref had to jump in and save him at the same time Booth was throwing the towel in;)

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs veteran. The rest are just moronic examples

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Not when he lost to Thompson. Thompson had been around years and been dropped in nearly all his later fights, lost 6 times KO'd 5. He had just beaten Rothman but took an absolute hiding before stopping Rothman and he then retired. Haye was coming through and brought Thompson out of retirement to have his name on his record and the concesus was that Haye would rip right through him but after throwing everything at Thompson and failing even to drop him, he started getting tagged himself. He got dropped and was on shaky legs while Thompson wailed away and the ref had to jump in and save him at the same time Booth was throwing the towel in;)

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Yeah there's a I reason wrote that in red

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs verteran. The rest are just moronic examples

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I dunno meing, Guthrie had a trinket but in reality he was as pure untested 'prospect' as they come. Took courts and judges for a shot at a stripped gimme trinket and then pole axed by written off inactive, totally unranked veteran in Johnson, who was jumping up not one but two weight classes. Poor dude peaked and crashed for good all in 4+ rounds?! I got Rubio clowning Bojado above Leija pulling it off.

What some here fail to realize is that because fighters are protected nowadays, and only fight maybe 4 times per year, and there's not too many fight-teachers anymore, the result is guys nowadays become champions without learning the nuances of their trade. When they do finally end up in deep waters, they don't have an answer. They literally don't know what to do when there reasonably-limited way of fighting isn't working.

The old way, guys fought every month on the way up against all kinds of styles which meant they really learned their trade before getting a title-shot, they usually took a couple of early losses because they were over-matched or the test was a little too much for the undeveloped fighter at the time. They learned how to switch gears, to be multi-dimensional. Take Floyd Mayweather, a well-schooled boxer who baffles his more unrefined opponents, and and whos skills seem extraordinary to some young fans. In the 80s, Floyd's skills wouldn't have been seen as anything out of the ordinary: they were seen as skills every boxer is supposed to work on and develop in that profession. There were guys that were better defensive boxers too like Pernell Whitaker for example. I blame America and their bizarre fixation on being undefeated. The old way, as long as the 2 men fought bravely and put on a great, entertaining show, it didn't matter too much who lost: they'd pay to see him again.

Point being, young fighters used to learn their trade early; they didn't become champions while still undeveloped like nowadays...

Mathews did not school Could but he did hand him his first defeat.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs verteran. The rest are just moronic examples

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I dunno meing, Guthrie had a trinket but in reality he was as pure untested 'prospect' as they come. Took courts and judges for a shot at a stripped gimme trinket and then pole axed by written off inactive, totally unranked veteran in Johnson, who was jumping up not one but two weight classes. Poor dude peaked and crashed for good all in 4+ rounds?! I got Rubio clowning Bojado above Leija pulling it off.

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Guthrie was 31 years old. How is that a "Young" prospect?

Randall Bailey flattening Mike Jones was a big recent one that I see nobody has mentioned. I know Randall can bang, but I never saw that outcome.

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

Randall Bailey flattening Mike Jones was a big recent one that I see nobody has mentioned. I know Randall can bang, but I never saw that outcome.

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Jones was already a contender. He wasn't a prospect any more

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

Randall Bailey flattening Mike Jones was a big recent one that I see nobody has mentioned. I know Randall can bang, but I never saw that outcome.

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Jones was already a contender. He wasn't a prospect any more

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I thought of that one as I'm a big Bailey fan and watched that one live. BUT, Bailey did not "school" the prospect, he lost every round save maybe 1 or 2 and then landed a couple hail mary shots.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs verteran. The rest are just moronic examples

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I dunno meing, Guthrie had a trinket but in reality he was as pure untested 'prospect' as they come. Took courts and judges for a shot at a stripped gimme trinket and then pole axed by written off inactive, totally unranked veteran in Johnson, who was jumping up not one but two weight classes. Poor dude peaked and crashed for good all in 4+ rounds?! I got Rubio clowning Bojado above Leija pulling it off.

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Guthrie was 31 years old. How is that a "Young" prospect?

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In ring experience he was a pup and hardly building up wear and tear, ring miles is what I think largley counts. You got alot of guys not even hitting notoriety or trinkets until late 20's. Guerrero was a deeper 'contender' than Guthrie, though younger he had logged tougher comp in only a couple fights less at time of loss.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

Randall Bailey flattening Mike Jones was a big recent one that I see nobody has mentioned. I know Randall can bang, but I never saw that outcome.

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Jones was already a contender. He wasn't a prospect any more

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I'm aware of this, but since the thread starter mentioned Pavlik-Hopkins when Pavlik was the best Middleweight in the world, I figured mentioning when an undefeated guy with no title or world class level experience getting beaten by an old pro was relevant.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs verteran. The rest are just moronic examples

---

I dunno meing, Guthrie had a trinket but in reality he was as pure untested 'prospect' as they come. Took courts and judges for a shot at a stripped gimme trinket and then pole axed by written off inactive, totally unranked veteran in Johnson, who was jumping up not one but two weight classes. Poor dude peaked and crashed for good all in 4+ rounds?! I got Rubio clowning Bojado above Leija pulling it off.

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Guthrie was 31 years old. How is that a "Young" prospect?

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In ring experience he was a pup and hardly building up wear and tear, ring miles is what I think largley counts. You got alot of guys not even hitting notoriety or trinkets until late 20's. Guerrero was a deeper 'contender' than Guthrie, though younger he had logged tougher comp in only a couple fights less at time of loss.

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I just don't consider any fighter who's champion to be a prospect

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

There's a big difference between prospect and contender. Not to mention prospect and former champion. Prospect and actual champion? I'm not even gonna bother with that one. Damn near all the ones mentioned don't even apply.

Joe Calzaghe-Jeff Lacy
Bernard Hopkins-Kelly Pavlik/Felix Trinidad
Michael Grant-Lennox Lewis
Ray Mercer-Jesse Ferguson/Larry Holmes
Jesse James Leija-Juan Lazcano
Reggie Johnson-William Guthrie
Carl Froch-Lucian Bute
Wladimir Klitschko-David Haye

Lacy, Bute, Haye and Trinidad where actual champions when they lost. Pavlik, Mercer and Guthrie were former champions. Lazcano (who didn't even lose) and Grant were contenders. None of them were close to being consider a young prospect.

Leija-Bojado. Guerrero-Brewer and Thompson-Haye apply. Those are good examples of prospect vs verteran. The rest are just moronic examples

---

I dunno meing, Guthrie had a trinket but in reality he was as pure untested 'prospect' as they come. Took courts and judges for a shot at a stripped gimme trinket and then pole axed by written off inactive, totally unranked veteran in Johnson, who was jumping up not one but two weight classes. Poor dude peaked and crashed for good all in 4+ rounds?! I got Rubio clowning Bojado above Leija pulling it off.

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Guthrie was 31 years old. How is that a "Young" prospect?

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In ring experience he was a pup and hardly building up wear and tear, ring miles is what I think largley counts. You got alot of guys not even hitting notoriety or trinkets until late 20's. Guerrero was a deeper 'contender' than Guthrie, though younger he had logged tougher comp in only a couple fights less at time of loss.

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I just don't consider any fighter who's champion to be a prospect

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Yeh, I get ya there dude. Just thinks its all become so watered down now and just a selling point with trinkets handed out hand over fist for the next guy.

There are some fights i am going to look up because I do not remember all of them