Untapped potential

Who here has a list of fighters you think would have went farther if given the right circumstances or characteristical attributes.

ill start for an example

Zab Judah- If he was more disciplined outside of the ring and worked harder i think he would've been one of the greatest of our generation

same goes for Mike Tyson-been a top 5 p4p legend if he just didn't slip up.

Amir Khan-I think if he had a coach that can teach him to slip punches at close and far range(kinda like taylor in his prime, and as floyd does, that mm slip of straighs) And box on the outside using his jab and speed to counter shots he would've been a champ for much longer and imo wouldve cleaned out 140.

James Toney if he could lay off the cheese burgers

Jose luis lopez

Michael Grant if he had a chin

Fernando Vargas was the most talented up and coming fighter I have ever seen and was probably pushed too far and too fast too early.

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Originally Posted by Master

Fernando Vargas was the most talented up and coming fighter I have ever seen and was probably pushed too far and too fast too early.

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reminds me a little of what just happened to canelo

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Originally Posted by Boxer4life

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Originally Posted by Master

Fernando Vargas was the most talented up and coming fighter I have ever seen and was probably pushed too far and too fast too early.

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reminds me a little of what just happened to canelo

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Fernado also fell in love with his power and stopped boxing as much.

Vernon Forest, he got 2 signature wins over Shane Mosley but once the shoulder injury took his power he was done for. Paul Williams, sadly due to his motorcycle accident he didn't achieve his entire potential which could have been great (though due to the Martinez KO I think he was getting close to his plateau).

You could make this JUST about heavyweights and have a never ending list be it from their injuries, early losses, prison, inactivity, poor match making, psychological instability, drug use: Ike Ibeabuchi, Michael Grant, Andrew Golota, Joe Mesi, Sam Peter, Cris Arreola, Lamon Brewster.....


How good would Lamon Brewster have been had he never injured his knee? He was a hell of a fighter! He probably could have had a better trainer but he really was a solid fighter.

Recently in the heavyweight division, I would argue Odlanier Solis. He was a terrific amateur, and hasn't achieved much as a professional.

Have these fighters really underachieved? A guy like Zab Judah is super talented but is mentally weak. However, when comparing him with the millions that have attempted boxing is he really mentally weak?

What makes speed, power, timing more an asset than heart, brains, granite ears?

If Khan had a granite chin/ear we wouldn't currently see him as the fighter he is.

(fuck sake i'm boring myself ;D)

Add Francisco Bojado to the list... Juan Diaz came back so maybe we will see if there's more in the future for him. I was never big on ricardo Williams jr. but he might technically fit.

I can see Fenster's Point though. For many of these shooting stars that burned out too fast... they fell by the wayside not because they didn't have what they needed. They had it and took it for granted. Zab Judah could have stuck with lou duva and Ronnie shields in stead of bring his big mouth father in to keep the money in the family. Khan could have listened to instructions instead of trying to slug it out with people. Tua and Mosely could have left their wives at home. The truth is there a lot of guys that start off well because they have the right people around them. Then they p*$$ all that way for stardom and trying to cut corners with cheaper managers, more laid back trainers and the next thing you know the gym is full of hype men and hangers on.

p.s. also put Edwin Valero on that list.

Audley Harrison

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Originally Posted by Master

Fernando Vargas was the most talented up and coming fighter I have ever seen and was probably pushed too far and too fast too early.

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Never brought into him personally. Hyped too much even before the disappointing Olympics...

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Originally Posted by J_Undisputed

Add Francisco Bojado to the list...

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LOL, I remember being high on Muhammad Abdullaev too. I think the words 'new Duran' may of come from my keyboard...:o

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Originally Posted by Fettled_Man

Audley Harrison

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Saw through him from the start.

I remember doing a post on here in 2002/03 'recapping the future' of Audley's career. I had him retiring after winning his world (WBF) crown by decisioning Matt Ellis...

Francisco Bojado if he'd have not been soooo rushed... it totally spoilt his potential

I always laugh when people say Zab failed, let's be honest Zab is the reason boxers duck, but I'd rather have Zab's career than be undefeated an have no good names on my resume.

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Originally Posted by Onetime

I always laugh when people say Zab failed, let's be honest Zab is the reason boxers duck, but I'd rather have Zab's career than be undefeated an have no good names on my resume.

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No i dont think he failed, far from it, he is actually one of my favorites. I just personally think he couldve been THE guy had he stayed on track. He gave floyd and cotto hell, but imagine with only a little more fine tunning, he couldve beat them.

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Originally Posted by Master

Fernando Vargas was the most talented up and coming fighter I have ever seen and was probably pushed too far and too fast too early.

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Vargas was pushed just right. He wasn't rushed. His career pretty much ended when he hurt his back. He was never the same

I'll also add Joe Calzaghe to the list because after he beat Eubank for the title which was a fantastic win for such a young fighter he was never really showcased or pushed into superfights until 9-10 years later.

which was a waste of years for such a talented fighter IMHO

Bert Cooper. Frankie Randall, Zack Padilla.

Poster Boy...

Joan Guzman

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Originally Posted by Saddo

I'll also add Joe Calzaghe to the list because after he beat Eubank for the title which was a fantastic win for such a young fighter he was never really showcased or pushed into superfights until 9-10 years later.

which was a waste of years for such a talented fighter IMHO

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YES! Fight RJJ, Toney, Hopkins during prime years! Calzaghe would have really improved his standing outside of England (hard to believe but true) had he done that win or lose (as long as he was competitive)

I thought Hopkins was still fighting at an elite level when Joe beat him

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Originally Posted by Jerry Rice

I thought Hopkins was still fighting at an elite level when Joe beat him

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True enough on him

Victor Ortiz

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Bert Cooper. Frankie Randall, Zack Padilla.

Poster Boy...

Joan Guzman

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That's just wrong. :shakehead: Homeboy was forced to retire

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Bert Cooper. Frankie Randall, Zack Padilla.

Poster Boy...

Joan Guzman

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It must be frustrating to manage a fighter like Guzman. There was a time when many fans were picking him to beat Pacquiao and maybe he could have under the right condition. With the style that he had, i could see pacman swinging for the fences against this guy..

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Bert Cooper. Frankie Randall, Zack Padilla.

Poster Boy...

Joan Guzman

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It must be frustrating to manage a fighter like Guzman. There was a time when many fans were picking him to beat Pacquiao and maybe he could have under the right condition. With the style that he had, i could see pacman swinging for the fences against this guy..

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I saw guzman fight live against the russian guy whose name i wont try to spell, beating pacqiou is a feat he couldnt dream of accomplishing

Guzman is 37 and light-years past his best.

Back in the day, when his immense talent covered up his lack of dedication, he looked awesome. I'd have backed him to wipe the floor with Pac not just beat him.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Zack Padilla

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Brilliant call. Anyone who regularly throws 1500ish punches in 12 round fights, catches my attention.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Zack Padilla

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Brilliant call. Anyone who regularly throws 1500ish punches in 12 round fights, catches my attention.

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I had to rewatch him blowing up Meyers and Gonzalez last night. Just a whirlwind! Regardless of losing 5+ yrs early and coming back at 29 he only improved. Still got totally snubbed by ranking for carrying wbo trinket then injured right at a peak. Much harsher circumstances than some dude who blew his career because he opted to put a pipe in his mouth.

I use to like Paul Hodgkinson, Liverpool fighter, who eventually won the title but then had to fight Goya Vargas in his first defence.

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Originally Posted by Master

I use to like Paul Hodgkinson, Liverpool fighter, who eventually won the title but then had to fight Goya Vargas in his first defence.

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Sadly he was cursed with soft skin around the eyes.

I am sure you remember the first Villasana fight, where he put on a master class ;) of face first brawling, dominating the teak tough Mexican, until he became so swollen around the eyes, he was basically blind, and the fight had to be stopped.

At least he got revenge, and a title, which I believe he did defend a few times (He stopped Stevie Cruz, amongst others I believe). If he had beaten Vargas, he would have got a money fight with the then unbeaten American sensation Kevin Kelley. But the Vargas fight ruined him, and he was a shell when battered into retirement against Steve Robinson.

Thread title made me think of a hot ass, 18 year old virgin..

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by Master

I use to like Paul Hodkinson, Liverpool fighter, who eventually won the title but then had to fight Goya Vargas in his first defence.

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Sadly he was cursed with soft skin around the eyes.

I am sure you remember the first Villasana fight, where he put on a master class ;) of face first brawling, dominating the teak tough Mexican, until he became so swollen around the eyes, he was basically blind, and the fight had to be stopped.

At least he got revenge, and a title, which I believe he did defend a few times (He stopped Stevie Cruz, amongst others I believe). If he had beaten Vargas, he would have got a money fight with the then unbeaten American sensation Kevin Kelley. But the Vargas fight ruined him, and he was a shell when battered into retirement against Steve Robinson.

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You are right Paul did make 3 defences which makes me feel happier.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by Master

I use to like Paul Hodkinson, Liverpool fighter, who eventually won the title but then had to fight Goya Vargas in his first defence.

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Sadly he was cursed with soft skin around the eyes.

I am sure you remember the first Villasana fight, where he put on a master class ;) of face first brawling, dominating the teak tough Mexican, until he became so swollen around the eyes, he was basically blind, and the fight had to be stopped.

At least he got revenge, and a title, which I believe he did defend a few times (He stopped Stevie Cruz, amongst others I believe). If he had beaten Vargas, he would have got a money fight with the then unbeaten American sensation Kevin Kelley. But the Vargas fight ruined him, and he was a shell when battered into retirement against Steve Robinson.

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You are right Paul did make 3 defences which makes me feel happier.

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Stopping Benichou stands out amongst them.