Who wins and how?
Printable View
Who wins and how?
No one's beating 88 Tyson...
No idea who but it probably ends by hook lol or looks a lot like Tua/Ike. Both individual and division records in punches thrown in that fight. Hard to believe they both remained standing.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Tyson by murder
no disrespect, but its a crazy to even think that thought
Ike wins by stoppage inside 6 , Hit Tyson hard and take his punch and he loses everytime.
Tyson was a bully.
Tyson was more than a bully he was skilled at his best and would be far cleverer than Tua. Tyson would find holes and exploit them. Still think Ike is standing at the end but like Razzor he would have busted ribs and jaw.
Hard to say...we saw Ike take Tua's punches, we saw Ike catch Byrd, but Tyson actually was the cream of the crop in the division and there was nobody to touch him at his best (in that era).
I'd go with Tyson by UD for this reason. #1 Tyson COULD box #2 We never saw Ibeabuchi reach his full potential and there were significant questions which hadn't been answered about him #3 This might be a generalization and I'm not saying "they're all alike" but you look at Nigerian heavyweights past and present: Sam Peter, David Izon, Friday Ahunaya, and Duncan Dokiwari and those guys all looked like monsters in the ring (they certainly did, don't believe me look at what was said about them before their first losses) right before they made the final step up in class, once they did that they looked slower, less skilled as boxers, less able to press the fight, less strong even....and with Ibeabuchi I'd play the odds that Ike was more like those guys rather than think he was "THE ONE" who was unbeatable. Ike certainly LOOKED like a beast though, his fight with Tua was a classic and his KO of Byrd was amazing....still there's the doubt in my mind that he'd fade at the highest level.
That'd be a fantastic fight.
I'd go with the prime Iron Mike in that one.
Yes Tyson is more skilled than Tua , but his chin isn't as good , and Ike is far better than Ruddock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
We have seen Tyson dropped , and Quit and cheat , Ike didnt show many weaknesses , im sticking to Ike by KO.
Mr President was very ill in his prime, Tyson on the other hand had for a brief period found a way of shutting out his demons.
Tyson is too skilful and fast for Ibeabuchi in his prime. Maybe Ike's chin will eventually crack, maybe it would not, that to me is the main intangible of the fight.
Tyson by 'at least' lopsided decision...
Ike didnt show many weaknesses because he only fought 2 decent fighters. Tyson went through a whole division in the eighties and left no question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYes Tyson is more skilled than Tua , but his chin isn't as good , and Ike is far better than Ruddock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
We have seen Tyson dropped , and Quit and cheat , Ike didnt show many weaknesses , im sticking to Ike by KO.
Also 1988 Tyson would not get dropped he was too good.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossIke didnt show many weaknesses because he only fought 2 decent fighters. Tyson went through a whole division in the eighties and left no question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYes Tyson is more skilled than Tua , but his chin isn't as good , and Ike is far better than Ruddock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
We have seen Tyson dropped , and Quit and cheat , Ike didnt show many weaknesses , im sticking to Ike by KO.
Ike may have a good chin but Mike didnt throw one left hook at a time. Not back then. Tis kimd of thread pops up all the time where certain people refuse to give any kimd of credit for what Mike was and achieved before King ruined him.
We may as well say that Jones Jr was also an overrated bully who was found to be taking steroids and because of all his numerous KO losses was just absolute shite;D
Most guys were intimidated before even stepping into the ring so they pretty much went in there with no confidence at all. Infact as soon as they got hit with the first punch, they knew they had no chance against mike.
Ike wouldn't have that problem and that kind of fearless mentality would be a huge factor. Mike only acted crazy but ike was truly crazy in the head, medically proven lol.
I don't know man. Ike was the complete package and perhaps he could have been the first to expose tyson, and not buster douglas.
I do not think Ike Ibeabuchi was anywhere near the 'complete package'. He had an illness that meant he choose to walk through David Tua's left hooks. That is not a smart decision, that is not sane, that is wrong. The people around Ike were just interested in money, not helping their man. If he had been given help to control his illness, I think he would very ordinary boxer. A slow lummox with a good chin and fair power, he would've lost to anyone with speed or a boxing brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
I think Mr President would have been in grave danger if he was around in 1987/88 to fight prime Tyson, he would of been badly hurt, but because of his illness, he would just kept coming forward at Tyson, who unlike Tua, in his pomp had a lot more than a ferocious left hook in offensive arsenal...
Now as a boxing (and football) fan I don't necessarily WANT to open this can of worms, but could CTE caused from the Tua fight (or previous fights) have caused his mental health problems? I say there's a distinct possibility.
#1 Watch Ibeabuchi vs Tua....one hook at a time, please :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
#2 If anything people overrate Tyson more than underrate him. Just because people offer up a slight critique here and there doesn't mean they think he was a crap fighter. He was a great fighter nobody questions that, exactly HOW GREAT is the debatable point and rightfully so.
I've seen that fight recently Lyle. Tua would triple up on the hooks at times but that doesn't make him a combination puncher, he still had to reset. Tyson was a completely different animal and could hurt you from both sides at once in his day. In fact Tyson was so much better than David Tua I think this thread is kind of hilarious, but hey:D.
The worst case scenario for Tyson would be a gruelling decision win imo, and that's only assuming Ibeabuchi had it in him to go full on mental and walk through that kind of hell on any given night.
Yes, but this wasn't the plodding 1 hook every 5 minutes Tua is what I was saying and in 88 Tyson wasn't the 1 punch at a time guy he evolved into either. So I do agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
I think Tyson would win just because #1 when Ibeabuchi fought Tua & Byrd they were prospects and #2 as I've stated before the Nigerian heavyweights all seemed to fade after being brilliant as prospects 99% of them...David Izon was called "The next Tyson" by Larry Merchant if I recall correctly, and look where he ended up. Ibeabuchi is different only in that he never got the opportunity to fall from his pedestal...had he fought Lewis or Holyfield he more than likely would have just judging him by his peers
How can Mike be over rated? A man that in a space of just 2 years had 8 fights that left no question as to who the best was. He unified the title beating 3 separate belt holders, the lineal champ and absolutely anihalated Spinks the lineal champ and Holmes who went on to beat Mercer and push Holyfield and McCall.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongNow as a boxing (and football) fan I don't necessarily WANT to open this can of worms, but could CTE caused from the Tua fight (or previous fights) have caused his mental health problems? I say there's a distinct possibility.
#1 Watch Ibeabuchi vs Tua....one hook at a time, please :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
#2 If anything people overrate Tyson more than underrate him. Just because people offer up a slight critique here and there doesn't mean they think he was a crap fighter. He was a great fighter nobody questions that, exactly HOW GREAT is the debatable point and rightfully so.
There will always be questions as to who is the best now. Wlad may be beaten by Vitali if they fought. The only way for one to be the best of this era is for the other to lose or retire so his brother can win and hold that belt.
Tyson can be overrated when people (ahem) :rolleyes: talk about him as an unbeatable God of the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Again, another person wants to bring up the Klitschko's to defend an undefendable position :shakehead: focus on the topic at hand, please...I don't want to make this a Klitschko vs Tyson pissing contest it's a question of 88 Tyson vs Ibeabuchi I don't see how the Klitschko's factor into this.
Bringing up the Klitschkos was as you know full well, in response to Tyson being called over rated.
Like I said, Mike was more dominant and left no debate as to who the best in the world was whereas nowadays, who is the unquestionable best? If anyone say Wlad then he's just as over rated as Tyson. Until there is only one champ again there will never be an answer.
Ibeabuchi has to be the most over rated fighter ever! He has probably thousands of threads about him over the internet but did he ever even fight a former title challenger?
He is most known for taking lots of punches from David Tua. He would not take lots of punches from Mike Tyson;)
Also, the ref got a bit excited when he stopped Byrd. Look at this and got to 28.28. Ike never even hit him again after the first knockdown and Byrd was alert enought to be making him miss with everything.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1autctlnlHQ
Well of course, because David Tua is just a mere mortal compared to Tyson :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
This isn't total hyperbole though, if we are talking anything besides pure one punch power Tua didn't have anything much on a young Tyson:D. In fact doing some boxrec sleuthing Tua had a rougher streak around that time than I remembered. You made me think with the Nigerian fighters, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen David Izon. Tua stopped him in the 12th just two fights before meeting Ike, any idea how that went until the stoppage? Tuas fight after that was the come from behind KO of Maskaev where he was being outboxed, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell of course, because David Tua is just a mere mortal compared to Tyson :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Britkid makes a great point about Ibeabuchi likely thriving on being such a mental case, if he had any of the skills people liked to say he did, he probably would've at least boxed Tua in spots. It wasn't the hardest ask in the world for a good big man.
Tua never beat a world champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell of course, because David Tua is just a mere mortal compared to Tyson :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
How many did Mike beat? ;D
We're not talking about beating champs, we're talking about pure sledgehammer blows to the dome. Tua didn't have half of Mike's talent or skill, but if he tagged you on the chin you'd go to sleep just as fast as a Tyson haymaker.
...how many did Shavers beat or Ron Lyle.....doesn't mean they couldn't clean your clock Mr. Erroneous ArgumentQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell of course, because David Tua is just a mere mortal compared to Tyson :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
No he didnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
They too were also mere mortals.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...how many did Shavers beat or Ron Lyle.....doesn't mean they couldn't clean your clock Mr. Erroneous ArgumentQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
I think Ike would have been mentally beaten by the time the bell rang. We really only have the Byrd fight and Tua fight to go by and the fact that he was a mental nut job. Tyson by knockout in a Seldon type win.
Seldon?!?! Now I agree Ibeabuchi would lose but SELDON?!?!?! That's the kind of overrating I'm talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Not really.
If Tyson never fought Spinks and he had the rest of his career as it happened would anyone have ever thought that Mike would have won that fight in 91 seconds?
I can imagine a ref asking for time and a half pay as well as being required to renew his life insurance before this.
Seriously though, I think Ibeabuchi is very over assumed off of the Tua fight. Basically he came to fame from two fights, thats it. Marion f'n Wilson managed to frustrate him even. Tyson had his problems but on speed and shift I think he makes Ibeabuchi look like a statue standing still. Compared to Tua Tyson was a very sharp accurate puncher with considerably more variation and it would be Ike losing his marbles and doing something to lose points or get DQ'd.
Yea Mike bites Ike's ear off , then Ike pulls a gun on Mike , all hell breaks loose , then maybe the fan man drops in.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
both get 5 years :)
Ha! Can you imagine the security prior, it would be insane. Special guest dual ref night.. Vince McMahon/ any random local D.A ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYea Mike bites Ike's ear off , then Ike pulls a gun on Mike , all hell breaks loose , then maybe the fan man drops in.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
both get 5 years :)
This would have been a really good match up , but as the saddo kid ross's hero , Fury would easily beat them both , as he has already beaten a formidable former world title challenger , in Kevin Johnson who has an amazing 14 KO in 29 wins and hits harder than either Mike or Ike.
Did you lot know Ike never beat a former world title challenger ?
amazing fact that one , he did beat a guy who went on to win the title but that doesn't matter at all.
but u have to remember ..ur saying Tyson of 88... 86-87-88, no one was ever better. Tua hits hard, but Tyson had talent... Tyson had an awesome jab, he had air for days, he had speed... for a moment... I say again,he was "the baddest man on the planet"
p.s..the Tyson that bit Holy's ear isn't the same man... the guy that lost to Lennox is a shell of young Tyson... the Tyson that had Rooney and Cuz isn't the same after Rooney left...
Prior to fighting Tua, Ike really fought nobody with a winning record outside of say Anthony Wade. He had only fought over 8 rounds twice. Tua was his 17th fight. Tua on the other hand had fought 27 times. Tua at the time was being touted as the next Tyson and had recently blasted out Ruiz, Wilson, Izon and Maskaev. Tua had been fighting 10 and 12 round fights for 4 or 5 years. At the time, it was being said that Ike was a flash in the pan and a coddled contender. As it turns out he was not the sum of his past opponents. Dark Lord Al makes a great point in that Ike would have had no fear and it may have been Tyson who got intimidated. That is a huge factor imo. Tyson may have fought about 15 times in a year but let’s be honest here, he was spoon fed more than Ike or Tua. He never even fought any kind of a perceived threat until 1987 and that was Thomas. I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here.
Would you prefer a Berbick type ko? I say Seldon because like I said Ike was an unstable type of individual who would have folded as soon as Mike put the pressure on him maybe. Its hypothetical anyways and who knows maybe Ike would have eaten Iron Mikes best shots and knocked him out Holyfield style.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongSeldon?!?! Now I agree Ibeabuchi would lose but SELDON?!?!?! That's the kind of overrating I'm talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Fair post, except that it's purely speculation that Tyson would've been intimidated in his day, as is most anything that points to Ike having much of a shout here imo. Tua hardly blased out Maskaev either, for what thats worth. He was looking pretty damn pedestrian and being soundly outboxed until he caught up late. If Ibeabuchi had any inclination to box that may have been a clear win for him, I actually thought Tua could've easily got the nod instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Watching Ibeabuchi vs Tua .....honestly a decent jab could have turned the tide in that fight good news for Tyson. Both guys did get staggared in the fight.