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Hello,
I was watching some of Vic Darchinyans fights and I am always annoyed by his style. He seems to enjoy throwing his opponents around, headlocks and pushing their heads down. He always reminds me of a schoolyard bully. It's too bad he resorts to these tactics as he is very active and can be fun to watch but I could never back him with his annoying tactics. I have not been around boxing as long as many here so I was curious to see who the more dirty fighters are.
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Originally Posted by walrus
Hopkins, Holyfield, Nas
'Dirty' derry
When I think of dirty it is Bhop for sure. The Keith Holmes fight comes to mind because when the ref was out of range or behind Holmes that's when Bhop would low blow or continuously tap him in the family jewels. Also Golota was a desperate dirty fighter.
Hopkins and Holyfield always come to mind first for me. Hard to leave Margarito off the list.
Vic the prick is a dirty fighter especially when he fought in the lower divisions. But that's was probably a way to make up for his lack of boxing skills. Remember how he put victor burgos in a coma? He showed no remorse for what happened and I started hating that guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
Bernard hopkins is a very dirty fighter too. He's a punk
Barrera is another dirty fighter but people usually do not call him put on it because he's a great fighter.
Ali
Winky loved the follow up elbow
Hop for sure but more sneaky cheap shot stuff when the refs on the blind side on breaks and such. Hagler was the same.
Pre neutral corner must have been a horror show.
Kid Norfolk is probably the worst thumber ever although thumbing was certainly not just his forte. It was common place with detached thumbs and ruined many greats who may have even been greater like Greb and Langford who were not choir boys either.
Saddler was a bad ass street fighter and so was Benny Leonard.
Marciano beat peoples arms until they could barely lift them.
Wlads constant leaning and Floyd bending below the waist although he has not done it lately.
Pukes like Resto go w/o saying.
Ward sure got away with the head against Kessler.
Kind of just scrapes the surface really.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Tyson biting the hell out of Holyfield or Ali laying all over and holding everyone the ref would allow during the end of his career. Tyson was good at capturing an opponents arm and trying to break it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I'd say the all the top fighters know how to fight dirty when they have to. It's not that surprising.
Tyson shouldn't be blamed for the ear incident because holy had it coming. He deserved it.
This game is dangerous as is so u should go eye for an eye.
Holyfield used his head as a third weapon so why should tyson play it fair?
Headbutting is actually one of the dirtiest tactics in boxing and it could be very dangerous.
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Originally Posted by beenKOedI'm surprised nobody mentioned Tyson biting the hell out of Holyfield or Ali laying all over and holding everyone the ref would allow during the end of his career. Tyson was good at capturing an opponents arm and trying to break it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I'd say the all the top fighters know how to fight dirty when they have to. It's not that surprising.
Agreed and I mentioned Ali w/o elaborating but his holding behind the head with both hands at times was evident almost his entire career and he rarely got warned.
Yup, Bhop is cringe worthy. I hate how he is treated like boxing royalty after fighting like a prick his entire career.
Seems you had the answer you desired before you asked the question. Can you produce some examples of this cringe worthy behavior?Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
I agree with Ward being thrown in there. I'll also put Victor Ortiz in there and dib
Mike was licensed to legally demolish a guy with his hands and instead went rabid poodle. Fuck him and his whining excuses that night. Its funny Holyfield constantly gets highlighted as "dirty". Compared to many lesser knowns, and a Tyson, he was nothing. The lead and follow thru elbow is becoming a third punch more so.Agapito Sanchez, Andrew Golota, Freddie Norwood, Ross Thompson, Fritzie Zivic, Eusebio Pedroza, Gianfranco Rosi, Tony Marshall, Ernest Mateen, Wolgast, Joan Guzman, Galento. etc etc. Love me some Terry Norris but how many times did he crank a guy in the back of his head or when he was down?
I have no answers my good man, just agreeing with my Bretheren, May I ask why you ask me for more evidence, I assume you have reason. Don't hold back.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitSeems you had the answer you desired before you asked the question. Can you produce some examples of this cringe worthy behavior?Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
You said he was cringe worthy as far as being dirty goes. I asked you for examples of this cringe worthiness. I'm not sure he would even make my top 50 list of dirty fighters. He is boxing royalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusI have no answers my good man, just agreeing with my Bretheren, May I ask why you ask me for more evidence, I assume you have reason. Don't hold back.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitSeems you had the answer you desired before you asked the question. Can you produce some examples of this cringe worthy behavior?Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
He's closing in on Archie Moore for the longest career in history and his to do list matches up pretty well with the Mongoose. Sure he's a prick and geographically challenged but so what? I just think his reputation for being a dirty fighter is exaggerated and somewhat on the extreme side.
Hey, I don't knock you for liking Bhop. you are talking to someone who likes Victor Ortiz. When I say cringe worthy perhaps it was too strong a word. I find Bhops tendency for malingering a bit over the top. Perhaps he is boxing royalty but I think he should act more like it. THANKS for clarifying, when you asked me for further evidence I thought you were implying that I knew nothing which would be pretty much on the money. I'm sure you as a Bhop fan can see why some wouldn't like him.
I don't like him. I respect what he has done in the sport regardless and think he gets a way worse reputation then he deserves based on the last few twilight years of his career at close to 50 and a few short of 30 years in.
Cringe worthy? U really asking for Hop's cringe worthy moments as if you dont know?
I could go on and on but just to give a few examples. If I remember correct in the Roy rematch, Roy barely grazed him in the head and this con man Hopkins started rolling all over the canvas like he got shot. Not only did that made me cringe was but for the first time, it made me hate a fighter.
Dawson-Hopkins 1.. enough said.
Hopkins is not a throwback fighter like he claims to be.
Great fighters most of the time are dirty because they know how to bend the rules and get away with it. Holyfeild makes Hopkins look clean his head was more dangerous then anything seen in a ring. Still Holyfeild is one of my favs and his avenged win over Bowie and his demolishing of Tyson and Moorer are great moments. People this is boxing not patty cake there trying to kill one another in the ring. If you look at alot of great fighters they did some dirty shit and would not think a thing about it when there hand was raised as the winner. I don't know why after so many years people still are so buged by it really its funny i mean every seen fights in old days. Today guys are not even close to the old guard when it came to making a boxing match into a street fight shit they wait above the guy to knock him out back then.
Like I said people seem to be basing this claim on one or two fights at the end of his career which you are now sustaining. And the flopping around from a shoulder lift from Dawson has very little with him being dirty. In order for him to make a top dirty list the evidence should be all over the place in close to a 30 year career. He does not make the cut. And if he's not a throwback I don't know who is.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Calling Hopkins a "dirty" fighter is not really an insult, just about everyone he's ever faced has called him "dirty," and he himself has admitted so in several interviews, seemingly taking great pride in being seen that way.
He doesn't view it as cheating, he sees it as him being smarter than everyone else - the ref, judges, opponent.
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Originally Posted by Fenster
He calls himself dirty because he sports the vocabulary of a duck billed platypus. He's certainly no all time dirty fighter, actually paling in comparison to others. He may take a few cheap shots here and there and then call himself dirty during a vapour lock in an interview but he does not meet the requirements that he is credited for.
You know that I also respect Hopkins and I think that, more than any other fighter of this era, he has worked hard in the gym to overcome other fighters with physical superiority AND I think that he is a smart tactician in the ring who is prepared to adapt to almost any style. That said, I think that a part of his willingness to 'adapt' is his willingness to bend or outright break the rules. He holds and hits where he can get away with it, he has wrestled fighters (was in Robert Allen he tossed around? I can't remember) and he got into something of a foul-fest with Echols, didn't he? Going off of memory there, so don't know that I have that quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitLike I said people seem to be basing this claim on one or two fights at the end of his career which you are now sustaining. And the flopping around from a shoulder lift from Dawson has very little with him being dirty. In order for him to make a top dirty list the evidence should be all over the place in close to a 30 year career. He does not make the cut. And if he's not a throwback I don't know who is.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Anyway, he used his head against Winky, Taylor, and I'm sure against countless other fighters (my opinion - I don't have evidence handy - again, I am going off of memory) - but then he has also turned in masterful performances against Tito, Oscar, Pavlik, and Tarver with minimal fouling if any.
I think that his mentality can turn to the dark side at any time and part of the reason that he is considered a dirty fighter is by his own personna. He is a win at all costs guy - he believes he is justified any time that he uses dirty tactics because he feels that the referees don't always take care of stuff. Still, he ups the ante (my opinion again) when that happens and I think that he is fairly dirty a fair amount of the time and, in part DUE to his longevity, he has had his share of fighting dirty.
You're probably right...Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
He calls himself dirty because he sports the vocabulary of a duck billed platypus. He's certainly no all time dirty fighter, actually paling in comparison to others. He may take a few cheap shots here and there and then call himself dirty during a vapour lock in an interview but he does not meet the requirements that he is credited for.
Just saying he is not offended by this label, to him it's about "tricks of the trade" etc. As long as you win you win. And he's a bloody good winner.
Ward
Wlad
Tyson Fury
Tszyu could be just as bad as Hatton
Tyson ( Mike )
Holyfield
Chavez Snr
They have all bent/broke the rules on occasion. There are many, many more but I can't think of them right now.
I just don't see bending and working a ref, finding advantage as dirty by definition. A guy can be boarderline street ish, guile and exploiting a less experienced fighter. To me that's Hopkins. Theatrics etc, that's not 'dirty'. Every single fight night has headbutts occur. Hopkins works the system on top of being a masterful craftsman and his biggest advantage may also be he could care 100 percent less what anyone thinks, who he offends or how many friends he makes. In large part it's how he's able to still be at the top of the game pissing off kids half his age.
Two Ton Tony Galento,and Roberto Duran was no saint.