Jack Johson & Jack Dempsey : Who would be more effective in today's HW division?

Thoughts?

Johnson

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Johnson

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Agreed.. I think Dempsey would look pretty good against someone like Marco Huck though..

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Johnson

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Agreed.. I think Dempsey would look pretty good against someone like Marco Huck though..

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Same. Dempsey does well with many of the smaller hevs I think.

What's funny is that Ring Magazine did an article on how Wladimir would fare against the great heavyweights from the past and if I recall correctly every single expert on the panel predicted that Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson would beat him. Now I think that's a little crazy, but food for thought.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Johnson

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Agreed.. I think Dempsey would look pretty good against someone like Marco Huck though..

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Same. Dempsey does well with many of the smaller hevs I think.

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Nope, Dempsey destroyed big guys. He wasn't called Jack the Giant-Killer for nothing. It's them little $#!ts gave him some trouble as he tried to catch up to them as they skedaddled around the ring...

24 year old Dempsey spars 6'6" Big Bill Tate in preparation for Dempsey's challenge of Champion Big Jess Willard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBXligl6YI


Challenger Dempsey vs Champion 6' 6½" 245 lb Willard, who had KOed Jack Johnson for the Title.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oxdv6J9V-Q



Current champ 6' 7" 245 lb Vitali Klitschko fights just like Willard, and they're both about the same size. Except Jess had better conditioning and was more difficult to hurt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrmj6eAFGc

"As far as his style(Jack Johnson), no. I have no great interest in copying his style because if he was in the modern day, he wouldn't make a penny. Very clever, very smart, but very uninteresting. You wouldn't have to take a laxative or something to fall asleep watching him fight." - Mike Tyson on Jack Johnson.

More than anyone in Boxing history, Tyson fought so much like Jack Dempsey, except Dempsey was a taller bigger man, and showed the ability to turn a fight around when it wasn't going his way and achieve victory.

http://i31.tinypic.com/xfrfck.jpg

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Johnson

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Agreed.. I think Dempsey would look pretty good against someone like Marco Huck though..

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Same. Dempsey does well with many of the smaller hevs I think.

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Nope, Dempsey destroyed big guys. He wasn't called Jack the Giant-Killer for nothing. It's them little $#!ts gave him some trouble as he tried to catch up to them as they skedaddled around the ring...

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Don't get me started on Dempsey. He would do ok today against the little guys but that's only because of how lame the division is. Oh he beats the Primo Carneras and Willards of today's world but he gets killed by today's version of Wlad or a prime Vitali. He might beat a few guys in Lennox's day but Lewis himself would destroy him and even guys like McCall. Dempsey ducked every black fighter of his day of any consequence and even avoided Harry Greb. I could name 50 heavyweights with relative ease from his day to the present that beat him. In an era like Ali's he'd be an opponent.

Johnson.

Dempsey had nothing to hold him back fighting his best in that era and whay we saw of dempsey was all he could be.

Jack johnson was carrying fighters and was 60% of the fighter he was for fear of being killed at any point due to his black skin.

They both have different respectable styles but you have to factor in the outside influences and the fact jack destroyed everyone in his prime with ease but was holding back so much more.

Such a shame.

neither would be anywhere close fighting like they did and with the knowledge they had back then

with the aid of todays training methods and knowledge both would be up there, assuming they would have grown into real HWs

Would they not be cruiserwights today?

Although Johnson was the big strong guy in his day, his awkwardness and reflexes have me thinking he'd be a somewhere between Dokes, Chambers and Byrd.

Demspey would be a less effective Morrison or Tyson.

I think both would have some success, probably not a great deal at the very top given their size disparity but Johnson would probably have a much longer career ;D

Then again, Johnson's mindset was probably on being the big man, so as a little man he may not have the same strength in mind ???

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Originally Posted by Master

Would they not be cruiserwights today?

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if not light heavies

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Master

Would they not be cruiserwights today?

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if not light heavies

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In that case they would destroy the light heavies and cruiser weights today.

Theres no denying they had the will to win. The skill level back then wasnt as good amongst some of the fighters but its relative. They were still better than everyone else and coming throu the ranks today with todays training, skills being taught, nutrition etc they would either be very strong, huge light heavies or cruisers and could move up like Holyfield and Haye.

Neither of them would crack the top 15, but I'd say Johnson's counter punching style would fare a lot better.

Willard looks better than Vitali? All I see is a KO waiting to happen. I'd bet my left nut that Willard wouldn't last 90 seconds with Wilder.

The nutrition and the sport science of the modern era is clearly better, but the skill-level among the guys of yesteryear was better. What's interesting is outside the heavyweights, the size of the other divisions hasn't changed very much. For example, a featherweight of 1925 is roughly the same size as a featherweight of today's day and age. While there were big heavyweights back then, there are more big heavyweights today.

I guess I think styles make fights. Ultimately, Dempsey would be better against some fighters and Johnson better against others. Johnson was floored by Stanley Ketchel. Joe Louis was out-boxed by Billy Conn. Gene Tunney outboxed Dempsey.

How deep was the heavyweight division during their time? How does it stack up against the best eras? Everyone pisses on the Klitschkos because the current heavyweight division is considered weak, but how weak is it compared with Johnson's and Dempsey's era?

It's a tough question really.

Size is nothing against heart.

There eras were jokes compared to now and todays division is far form the glory days, not the golden years either. Johnson was huge compared to the guys he fought he would not have the same advantage today. As for Dempsey well he won't fight black guys and the Brothers would destroy him badly.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

There eras were jokes compared to now and todays division is far form the glory days, not the golden years either. Johnson was huge compared to the guys he fought he would not have the same advantage today. As for Dempsey well he won't fight black guys and the Brothers would destroy him badly.

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Boy, what a horrible post, 140 !
Congratulations, it's a piece of $#!t !!!

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

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Originally Posted by Mr140

There eras were jokes compared to now and todays division is far form the glory days, not the golden years either. Johnson was huge compared to the guys he fought he would not have the same advantage today. As for Dempsey well he won't fight black guys and the Brothers would destroy him badly.

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Boy, what a horrible post, 140 !
Congratulations, it's a piece of $#!t !!!

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Well I agree with some of what he said. Dempsey wouldnt qualify to be a tuneup for the Klits.. At best he would be like a Mike Mollo level fighter.

Same with Johnson.