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Did you guys see that fight? Atrocious!!! Disgraceful show and a huge waste of money. In the first five rounds, Wlad clenched more than John Ruiz clenched in his last 20 fights. Absolute nonsense.
Any other fighter would have been penalized and disqualified. Povetkin could do nothing with that BS. Absolute trash. And, I am happy the analysts are all over the place saying thee same thing!!
Sad he is still the champion, Wlad is. What a total disgrace!!
If Wlad were to put his hands around my neck like that repeatedly with no warning, I would be forced to spin him and hit him REALLY low or right below the belt line. Uncalled for and totally unacceptable!
My son thought it was a wrestling match, he loves WWE.
Sure was an ugly fight. You guys think the result would have been any different without the holding? I do not as Povetkin just doesn't have the tools to beat Wlad. He def would have been more competitive though.
I was impressed with Povetkins agrression which I have not appreaciated before. Wlad certainly landed some hard jabs and left hooks and the holding exhausted Povetkin but he still came forward and did not give up. He is the second best heavyweight out there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Povetkin had a fire lit under him like I haven't seen from him before.
Ring had him rated as the #2 heavyweight, but I don't believe it.
Stirvene, Arreola and Chisora would push Wlad more.
I hope Wilder can defeat Wlad in a year or 18 months. Has to step up the competition first n show a chin.
Uh huh you'd get smacked down like a little bitchQuote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Simply put, they need to put a ref in there that will take control of a Klitschko fight. The holding and greco roman wrestling he uses belongs in the UFC, not in boxing. UFC legend Randy Couture would do the same thing in MMA: grab guys, lean on them, and sap their energy. If Klitschko wants to do that maybe he should go over to the UFC.
I'm one of the few on here who actually is a big fan of the Klitschko's and really enjoys their tactical approach to HW fighting. They are both master technicians in the ring, but the excessive holding is getting rediculous.
absolutely yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
there is no doubt in my mind that klit would have lost his title long ago if he was made to fight within the rules
no doubt at all
if the ref started warning klit from the first round when he should have and stopping him holding, provetkin would have got to him
No. But the point is we want to see fair fights and it is bullshit if one fighter gets away with that much fouling. Wlad is a great fighter, but that shit isn't needed. Povetkin was already up against it as Wlad is a completely different class, no need to hold that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
By the mid rounds, I thought the holding and headlocks were plain embarrassing. I was amazed to see Wlad take to the top rope at the end of the fight like he was overjoyed and proud of that performance. Not sure I've ever seen as much holding like that in a fight before, even from Hatton or Berto.
this gives wlad far too much creditQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnNo. But the point is we want to see fair fights and it is bullshit if one fighter gets away with that much fouling. Wlad is a great fighter, but that shit isn't needed. Povetkin was already up against it as Wlad is a completely different class, no need to hold that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
people say its not the holding that makes him good when in fact it is the holding that makes him good, his whole strategy is based on holding and its not in the rules
if made to fight within the rules we would have a different champion right now
Not a chance. Povetkin isn't some monster puncher. Wlad was hurting him with every shot. The holding & leaning is bullshit but don't pretend like Wladimir isn't the best Heavyweight in the world. He is leagues above guys like Povetkin. He doesn't just win every fight because of holding. His footwork, stiff jab and powerful right cross have alot to do with it. I hate watching him fight, but I respect his skill set. Blame the referee for not stopping the fouls.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44this gives wlad far too much creditQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnNo. But the point is we want to see fair fights and it is bullshit if one fighter gets away with that much fouling. Wlad is a great fighter, but that shit isn't needed. Povetkin was already up against it as Wlad is a completely different class, no need to hold that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
people say its not the holding that makes him good when in fact it is the holding that makes him good, his whole strategy is based on holding and its not in the rules
if made to fight within the rules we would have a different champion right now
right we are discussing who would have won if the fight was under the rules of boxing arent we?Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnNot a chance. Povetkin isn't some monster puncher. Wlad was hurting him with every shot. The holding & leaning is bullshit but don't pretend like Wladimir isn't the best Heavyweight in the world. He is leagues above guys like Povetkin. He doesn't just win every fight because of holding. His footwork, stiff jab and powerful right cross have alot to do with it. I hate watching him fight, but I respect his skill set. Blame the referee for not stopping the fouls.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44this gives wlad far too much creditQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnNo. But the point is we want to see fair fights and it is bullshit if one fighter gets away with that much fouling. Wlad is a great fighter, but that shit isn't needed. Povetkin was already up against it as Wlad is a completely different class, no need to hold that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
people say its not the holding that makes him good when in fact it is the holding that makes him good, his whole strategy is based on holding and its not in the rules
if made to fight within the rules we would have a different champion right now
you might be right, i might be right but that fact is we will never know because it wasnt and it wasnt even close to being a fair fight, not even close
do you honestly think wlad would have dominated like he has if he was made to fight every fight?
and my opinion is we dont know if wlad is the best HW in the world or not
I see what you're saying and I used to argue it myself, but I think using the Povetkin fight is a bad example. With or without it, Povetkin had nothing to offer Klitschko in terms of an even fight. He's not on his level.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I think the Haye fight would have been much more interesting if he wasn't allowed to lean & hold but alot of fighters use dirty tactics. I've learnt that Boxing is about what you can get away with in a Boxing ring. Hatton used to hold and maul fighters and it was bending the rules. Really, if the referee is doing nothing about it then my advice to foul him right back. The sport couldn't be dirtier anyway. Broner kicked Malignaggi in the balls this year for fucks sake. Watch Bradley try and headbutt his way to another decision on Saturday. Until something is done to govern the sport correctly, "name" fighters will go unpunished, shady judges will get away with handing out dodgy decisions and the same referee who did nothing about blatent fouling will go out and do the same job next week.
Wlad is highly skilled. He wins his fights. I think he's proven he's the best out there. If he's fouling, it is up to the referee to stop him. Otherwise, it's fair game.
i honestly dont think you can say whether provetkin would have had more success or not because every time he moved forward wlad held himQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnI see what you're saying and I used to argue it myself, but I think using the Povetkin fight is a bad example. With or without it, Povetkin had nothing to offer Klitschko in terms of an even fight. He's not on his level.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I think the Haye fight would have been much more interesting if he wasn't allowed to lean & hold but alot of fighters use dirty tactics. I've learnt that Boxing is about what you can get away with in a Boxing ring. Hatton used to hold and maul fighters and it was bending the rules. Really, if the referee is doing nothing about it then my advice to foul him right back. The sport couldn't be dirtier anyway. Broner kicked Malignaggi in the balls this year for fucks sake. Watch Bradley try and headbutt his way to another decision on Saturday. Until something is done to govern the sport correctly, "name" fighters will go unpunished, shady judges will get away with handing out dodgy decisions and the same referee who did nothing about blatent fouling will go out and do the same job next week.
Wlad is highly skilled. He wins his fights. I think he's proven he's the best out there. If he's fouling, it is up to the referee to stop him. Otherwise, it's fair game.
and i dont think you can compare wlads holding to hattons, hatton went in punched, stoped for a second, did a bit of grappling then punched again
wlad jabs and then holds and leans and does anything but punch
and all of the other cheating you mention is not anywhere near the extreme of wlads, wlad holds and leans every few seconds of every round,
I can accept that there is an arguement to say that if you stopped wlad from holding then youd have to stop bradley from head butting, i think in terms of extemity a better example is ward, but even ward whos hit and hold tactics are extreme, they arent even in the same world as wlads
@erics44, I agree with most of what you're saying. I'm no Klitschko fan. I can't stand him. I think the holding and leaning is excessive and it should be stamped out, but after so many fights of no referee really punishing him for it until a fight is pretty much out of the opponents hands, I have chosen to assume it must be legal.
What I don't agree with is how anyone can argue Povetkin is on Klitschko's level. It terms of skill, they are leagues apart and I don't think you can argue he had anything to offer Wlad.
i dont think there is any boxing skill in what klitchko does, in particular what he was doing on saturday night, after the fight i still dont know who would have won in a boxing matchQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
what he is doing is fouling, out of all the other sports i have an interest in very rarely do you get away with fouling
Theres a lot of money involved so he is allowed to get away with it, the wlad klit situation goes a long way as evidence of boxing being the most corrupt of main stream sports
None at all? The jab is a powerful weapon. It is no range finder, it is very hurtful. His footwork is immense as well. For a Heavyweight who is 6'7" he is very light on his feet. He picks his punches well too and is very accurate. I'd say that is pretty skillful.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44i dont think there is any boxing skill in what klitchko does, in particular what he was doing on saturday night, after the fight i still dont know who would have won in a boxing matchQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
what he is doing is fouling, out of all the other sports i have an interest in very rarely do you get away with fouling
Theres a lot of money involved so he is allowed to get away with it, the wlad klit situation goes a long way as evidence of boxing being the most corrupt of main stream sports
If I was the ref there would be a new world champion.
erics44 if Wlad had no skill then he would have lost a lot more than 3 fights
The point of the game is to WIN not to make it look pretty and lose. WINNING is #1 on the hierarchy of what's important in boxing pyramid....having a fun fan friendly fight is way on down.
If you asked ANY professional fighter "Would you rather win and be in a boring fight or lose and be in an exciting fight?" 100% of the fighters who are any good will say "I want to WIN" everything after that is erroneous
And if your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncleQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
i agree he has a good jab , but remember people with champion material jabs can jab and move their feet and body to jab again or throw another punch or do a range of things within the rules following the jab, klit jabs and leansQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnNone at all? The jab is a powerful weapon. It is no range finder, it is very hurtful. His footwork is immense as well. For a Heavyweight who is 6'7" he is very light on his feet. He picks his punches well too and is very accurate. I'd say that is pretty skillful.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44i dont think there is any boxing skill in what klitchko does, in particular what he was doing on saturday night, after the fight i still dont know who would have won in a boxing matchQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
what he is doing is fouling, out of all the other sports i have an interest in very rarely do you get away with fouling
Theres a lot of money involved so he is allowed to get away with it, the wlad klit situation goes a long way as evidence of boxing being the most corrupt of main stream sports
and although he is quick on his feet his footwork on saturday was not really for the most part boxing related, throw a jab move quickly to lean
certainly without any doubt in my mind, the boxing skill shown on saturday night was not that of a long standing multimillion pound a fight heavyweight champion
i wouldnt say even slightly close
i just had a quick peak at eastside boxing and someone has an artcle titled should klit have been DQ'd, the answer is absolutely yes
And you're so feminine that if you had a dick you'd still wear a tampon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd if your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncleQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Oh no, ***GASP*** I've been insulted on the internet, HELP, HELP police!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosAnd you're so feminine that if you had a dick you'd still wear a tampon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd if your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncleQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Typical queer, you gays love a man in uniform.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOh no, ***GASP*** I've been insulted on the internet, HELP, HELP police!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosAnd you're so feminine that if you had a dick you'd still wear a tampon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd if your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncleQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Jonny Nelson has a boring style that wins, but he fights within the rules, therefore that question is completely unrelated to what happened on saturday nightQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
wlad cheated, fouled constantly, he doesnt deserve to be the winner
i am honestly shocked that even you could still defend what happened, he has a cheating style in all of his other fights anyway, that on saturday was the extreme of the extremes
i am a fan of carl froch, if he fought like wlad did on saturday (or even half way close) i would be the first to admit what happened
Ummmm so you get what out of calling me gay? You trying to wind me up? Or are you trying to feel better about yourself? You got "bad touched" as a kid didn't you? That's probably made you a bit confused....there there little child, you'll be okQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosTypical queer, you gays love a man in uniform.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOh no, ***GASP*** I've been insulted on the internet, HELP, HELP police!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosAnd you're so feminine that if you had a dick you'd still wear a tampon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd if your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncleQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Little child lol, I've probably got tattoos older than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongUmmmm so you get what out of calling me gay? You trying to wind me up? Or are you trying to feel better about yourself? You got "bad touched" as a kid didn't you? That's probably made you a bit confused....there there little child, you'll be okQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosTypical queer, you gays love a man in uniform.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOh no, ***GASP*** I've been insulted on the internet, HELP, HELP police!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosAnd you're so feminine that if you had a dick you'd still wear a tampon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd if your aunt had a dick she'd be your uncleQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
But what's interesting is the rule I once learned during my PC Technology degree, that people who bring up child sex abuse on a forum, are more prone to attempting it in reality.
Speak volumes about you.
Then by that rational you're gayQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Your turn princess
No you misunderstand the logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThen by that rational you're gayQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Your turn princess
It's not illegal to be gay, therefore you wouldn't have to use the Internet to be gay :)
Next you'll mention the nazis, which again with someone like you is an inevitability, so see Godwin's Law before you do.
NOTE: The law states at the mention of the nazis the conversation is redundant and essentially over, so lets just assume, and go on the notion that you're an idiot and will mention the nazis sooner or later and we can end this conversation here, without furthering my decline in intellect caused by reading your posts.
Understandably I mentioned them out of context, so the conversation isn't far from dead anyways.
Legality has 0 to do with the reasoning you have attempted to use Queenie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
You mentioned Nazi's....why would you even bring them up?
I'm really bored and this is entertaining the shit outta me on what is an otherwise mundane money afternoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLegality has 0 to do with the reasoning you have attempted to use Queenie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
You mentioned Nazi's....why would you even bring them up?
So arguments are entertaining to you......yeah, that's a little gay at the very least a feminine quality, but hey props to you for being honest and open about itQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI'm really bored and this is entertaining the shit outta me on what is an otherwise mundane money afternoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLegality has 0 to do with the reasoning you have attempted to use Queenie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
You mentioned Nazi's....why would you even bring them up?
I have to say I am a married heterosexual and I am finding this thread very entertaining. On a serious note a few people here stated Wlad has good footwork. Of course you couldn't tell that from this fight but I have never seen impressive movement from him. Granted, I don't watch a lot of his fights, even when he isn't clinching for 12 rounds I still find him boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongSo arguments are entertaining to you......yeah, that's a little gay at the very least a feminine quality, but hey props to you for being honest and open about itQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI'm really bored and this is entertaining the shit outta me on what is an otherwise mundane money afternoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLegality has 0 to do with the reasoning you have attempted to use Queenie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
You mentioned Nazi's....why would you even bring them up?
You guys that are complaining about Walds fight last night is fine it was kinda of a bad night. If were going into his whole career then you guys complaining about his holding have not seen some of the greats do it i am guessing. Ali all time great would practically hold a guys head to his dick and that was on more then one occasion. Have you guys ever seen a Hopkins fight before there are more head butts and grappling then punches yet again a great fighter clinching is a rule that is broke like ever fight.
Evander Holyfield??? Never heard of him, never seen one of his fights. "Oh but it was OK if Evander clinched or made a fight ugly because he was trying to knock his opponent out with his head" :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Are you still defending that debacle that Wlad would call a boxing maul I mean match?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongEvander Holyfield??? Never heard of him, never seen one of his fights. "Oh but it was OK if Evander clinched or made a fight ugly because he was trying to knock his opponent out with his head" :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Again, like many others you said 0 about Hatton or Lewis Master.....quite telling....quite telling indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
hatton held, lewis heldQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAgain, like many others you said 0 about Hatton or Lewis Master.....quite telling....quite telling indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
on the next level ward holds, Hopkins holds
many levels above, wlad holds to the extreme of extremes, there has never been and never will be a boxer considered anywhere near championship level that holds to the extreme that wlad holds, he is a disgrace and the sooner he retires the better it will be for everyone other than the corrupt cheats that are making the money from his fights