Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

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10-30-2013, 08:48 PM
ykdadamaja

Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Hey guys,

I'm not sure if you know about "Pro Wrestling" terminologies, like "jobbers", "heels", "faces" or "kayfabe", etc, etc...?? But, what do you guys feel about "selling" punches in boxing?

A "sell" is when a guy throws a punch, does a manouvre, and the guy who the punch or manouvre is being used on over-reacts to the contact. Sorta like flopping in basketball, without the fouls, etc...

Now, I know, I know, boxing is death serious. But, hear me out here!! Ask yourself: WHY did we "really" like Arturo Gatti? Deigo Corales, and his match vs. Castillo? Why did we REALLY like Rocky movies?

You know why we liked those movies and the characters, and the boxing stars I just mentioned? Because they gave us the DRAMATIC comeback. A dramatic comeback like when Diego Corales was getting pounded by Castillo for most of the fight, and suddenly turned around and scored a spectacular, come from behind KO on Castillo? (which, in hindsight, makes me a little upset at when they stopped his fight against Money Mayweather. Perhaps he was selling it a bit?!?! ... I digress!)
;D;D

But, why did we REALLY like Gatti? Because Gatti had, not only KO power, but he got battered and bruised and cut in the ring, only to turn it around and then come back in SPECTACULAR fashion and grit out the second half of the fight on route to a KO win for him or a decision victory. He gave us excitement, drama, something to see unferl. Something we can root and cheer for!!

I need not say anything about Rocky vs. Drago in Rocky 4 (for the sods that don't know their Roman Numerals), the most profitable Rocky movie ever produced. but the drama, Rocky getting pummeled, Apollo Creed (his best friend) getting killed in the ring by Drago and all of the HYPE surrounding the comeback kid, Rocky Balboa, vs. the mean, tough, nasty, hard hitting Ivan Drago from the HATED USSR. (a little political and social backdrop made it all the more special)

But, with the Rocky film-fights and the "real fights" I just mentioned, one thing was certain to bring people to the gate and PPV- THE SELLING OF THE DRAMA IN-FIGHT.

Maybe today's fighters SHOULD take a page out of Pro Wrasslin's book- SELL a little bit of the punches and the drama.

Be like Mayweather for a time- BE A HEEL (no doubt, more people probably buy PPV's for Mayweather to be knocked out unconscious, than it is to see him and his mastery of the squared circle.).

Or, be like Gatti to some extent and take a "cut"... or how wrasslin' does it, "blade" yourself. "Blading" being the intentional cutting of ones-self to draw blood and make the fighting look more realistic. This one may be a stretch to an extent, and a bit dangerous as well as not necessary seeing that guys can get cut anyways... but fans like to see a guy fight out on sheer guts and instinct when he is cut and blinded by blood out of one of his eyes!! Sad, but true!

So, what do you guys think? Should legitimate professional boxers, find it within their circles, to "sell" some of those pitty-patter punches? It would help BOTH the guy "selling" and the guy throwing the punch.

Can you imagine if Ike Ibeabuchi had "sold" some of Chris Byrd's feather dusters, and then come back for a spectacular KO like he did in their match? Do you know what that would have done for Byrd's career and pocketbook? Would have definitely got him a few extra dollars to see the "hard hitting Chris Byrd... hehehehhehe... (I can only laugh as I type that!!)

What do you think?
;D;D
10-30-2013, 10:58 PM
beenKOed

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Hey guys,

I'm not sure if you know about "Pro Wrestling" terminologies, like "jobbers", "heels", "faces" or "kayfabe", etc, etc...?? But, what do you guys feel about "selling" punches in boxing?

A "sell" is when a guy throws a punch, does a manouvre, and the guy who the punch or manouvre is being used on over-reacts to the contact. Sorta like flopping in basketball, without the fouls, etc...

Now, I know, I know, boxing is death serious. But, hear me out here!! Ask yourself: WHY did we "really" like Arturo Gatti? Deigo Corales, and his match vs. Castillo? Why did we REALLY like Rocky movies?

You know why we liked those movies and the characters, and the boxing stars I just mentioned? Because they gave us the DRAMATIC comeback. A dramatic comeback like when Diego Corales was getting pounded by Castillo for most of the fight, and suddenly turned around and scored a spectacular, come from behind KO on Castillo? (which, in hindsight, makes me a little upset at when they stopped his fight against Money Mayweather. Perhaps he was selling it a bit?!?! ... I digress!)
;D;D

But, why did we REALLY like Gatti? Because Gatti had, not only KO power, but he got battered and bruised and cut in the ring, only to turn it around and then come back in SPECTACULAR fashion and grit out the second half of the fight on route to a KO win for him or a decision victory. He gave us excitement, drama, something to see unferl. Something we can root and cheer for!!

I need not say anything about Rocky vs. Drago in Rocky 4 (for the sods that don't know their Roman Numerals), the most profitable Rocky movie ever produced. but the drama, Rocky getting pummeled, Apollo Creed (his best friend) getting killed in the ring by Drago and all of the HYPE surrounding the comeback kid, Rocky Balboa, vs. the mean, tough, nasty, hard hitting Ivan Drago from the HATED USSR. (a little political and social backdrop made it all the more special)

But, with the Rocky film-fights and the "real fights" I just mentioned, one thing was certain to bring people to the gate and PPV- THE SELLING OF THE DRAMA IN-FIGHT.

Maybe today's fighters SHOULD take a page out of Pro Wrasslin's book- SELL a little bit of the punches and the drama.

Be like Mayweather for a time- BE A HEEL (no doubt, more people probably buy PPV's for Mayweather to be knocked out unconscious, than it is to see him and his mastery of the squared circle.).

Or, be like Gatti to some extent and take a "cut"... or how wrasslin' does it, "blade" yourself. "Blading" being the intentional cutting of ones-self to draw blood and make the fighting look more realistic. This one may be a stretch to an extent, and a bit dangerous as well as not necessary seeing that guys can get cut anyways... but fans like to see a guy fight out on sheer guts and instinct when he is cut and blinded by blood out of one of his eyes!! Sad, but true!

So, what do you guys think? Should legitimate professional boxers, find it within their circles, to "sell" some of those pitty-patter punches? It would help BOTH the guy "selling" and the guy throwing the punch.

Can you imagine if Ike Ibeabuchi had "sold" some of Chris Byrd's feather dusters, and then come back for a spectacular KO like he did in their match? Do you know what that would have done for Byrd's career and pocketbook? Would have definitely got him a few extra dollars to see the "hard hitting Chris Byrd... hehehehhehe... (I can only laugh as I type that!!)

What do you think?
;D;D

If it's not the the real deal, I'm not interested even a little.
10-31-2013, 04:10 AM
greynotsoold

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

That has been part of boxing for years. Not every fighter is in there to win, and I'm not just talking about 'dives.'
There was a guy that was state commissioner in the state I lived in before this one. He went to fight in another guy's hometown. The other guy was undefeated and on his way up (he ended up going too far up in weight and losing at LHW). The future commissioner was not supposed to win but, the evening of the fight, he held out for an extra $1500 (good money in the late 1960s), or he'd go out and try to win. he got the money.
"Selling" it has always been part of boxing.
10-31-2013, 04:22 AM
IamInuit

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

That has been part of boxing for years. Not every fighter is in there to win, and I'm not just talking about 'dives.'
There was a guy that was state commissioner in the state I lived in before this one. He went to fight in another guy's hometown. The other guy was undefeated and on his way up (he ended up going too far up in weight and losing at LHW). The future commissioner was not supposed to win but, the evening of the fight, he held out for an extra $1500 (good money in the late 1960s), or he'd go out and try to win. he got the money.
"Selling" it has always been part of boxing.

But that's not what he's really talking about brother. He's talking about exaggeration on steroids and the WWFing of boxing.

Things like this http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...35621101_1.gif

or thishttp://i646.photobucket.com/albums/u...occerfight.gif

I cant even entertain the thought.
10-31-2013, 05:43 AM
Spicoli

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS1v6qtSLmA ??? I dunno bro, too much of this skill and we'll have the WBC pushing Bluto into a vacant heavyweight trinket affair! Toooooot toooot :o

Boxing has too many snake oil salesman and guys padding records with actors already ;D
10-31-2013, 01:37 PM
ykdadamaja

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

That has been part of boxing for years. Not every fighter is in there to win, and I'm not just talking about 'dives.'
There was a guy that was state commissioner in the state I lived in before this one. He went to fight in another guy's hometown. The other guy was undefeated and on his way up (he ended up going too far up in weight and losing at LHW). The future commissioner was not supposed to win but, the evening of the fight, he held out for an extra $1500 (good money in the late 1960s), or he'd go out and try to win. he got the money.
"Selling" it has always been part of boxing.

That's called scripting a match... not exactly "selling" punches or pain. But I dig it with regard to the corruption on boxing. For sure.
10-31-2013, 01:38 PM
ykdadamaja

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicoli

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS1v6qtSLmA ??? I dunno bro, too much of this skill and we'll have the WBC pushing Bluto into a vacant heavyweight trinket affair! Toooooot toooot :o

Boxing has too many snake oil salesman and guys padding records with actors already ;D

But we have all of that without the excitement and drama.... just dramatize it. SELL IT!! That's alls I'm saying.
;D
10-31-2013, 01:54 PM
Bo-Bo24

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Put simply, you want another Don King type guy to come along and sell fights to the public?
10-31-2013, 04:05 PM
beenKOed

Boxing sells boxing or it should! That's what pisses me off about Hopkins' executioner mask, extended ring entrances, Wilder's puffed up boxing record, cheating bastards on PEDS, cheating bastards tampering with gloves, cheating promoters, pissant belts, pissant boxing orgs.
I could go on and on, and now you are asking if we should 'sell' boxing by allowing phony shit in the ring. I'm glad you are only asking because if you were suggesting we should, I'd be suggesting that your head would look good on a pole on the side of the road!
Would you really enjoy boxing more if you knew there was phony shit going on during a fight?
Without a doubt, there is more cheating/phony shit in boxing than ever before but let's do everything we can to keep the actual fights as real as possible.
10-31-2013, 09:23 PM
ykdadamaja

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenKOed

Boxing sells boxing or it should! That's what pisses me off about Hopkins' executioner mask, extended ring entrances, Wilder's puffed up boxing record, cheating bastards on PEDS, cheating bastards tampering with gloves, cheating promoters, pissant belts, pissant boxing orgs.
I could go on and on, and now you are asking if we should 'sell' boxing by allowing phony shit in the ring. I'm glad you are only asking because if you were suggesting we should, I'd be suggesting that your head would look good on a pole on the side of the road!
Would you really enjoy boxing more if you knew there was phony shit going on during a fight?
Without a doubt, there is more cheating/phony shit in boxing than ever before but let's do everything we can to keep the actual fights as real as possible.

Since it happens anyways, we may as well turn it into high drama.
;D

As said, can you imagine if Ibeabuchi had "sold" some of Chris Byrd's feather dusters?!!? lolol... what it would have done for the night and that fight!!!
:cool:
10-31-2013, 09:50 PM
Master

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Entertainment does not hurt boxing, it makes it fun. You need substance otherwise you will end up a laughing stock like Audley.
10-31-2013, 10:12 PM
ykdadamaja

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master

Entertainment does not hurt boxing, it makes it fun. You need substance otherwise you will end up a laughing stock like Audley.

Audley was the ultimate foil. He made for great fun. The second fight with Sprott had me on EDGE.
11-01-2013, 02:42 AM
Violent Demise

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

What do you think?
;D;D

You don't really wanna know. I'm just gonna do you a favor and pretend you never created this thread
11-01-2013, 02:45 AM
ykdadamaja

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

You guys have no imagination man, none whatsoever!
11-01-2013, 07:18 PM
Master

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

As crap and washed up as Chris Eubanks became after the brutal rights with Benn and Watson, he made great money entertaining people on Sky and fighting crap fighters defence after defence.
11-02-2013, 04:00 PM
ykdadamaja

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master

As crap and washed up as Chris Eubanks became after the brutal rights with Benn and Watson, he made great money entertaining people on Sky and fighting crap fighters defence after defence.

Exactly. Why do you think RJJ has been on a semi-successful world tour? From Australia to Russia, etc... he is on the world-wide selling tour of RJJ. :)

Too bad he still thinks of himself as a serious fighter. The days are long gone. Even guys he is supposed to be beating with ease are hurting him.

But, to be real, his fights against Danny Green and the Dennis Lebedev were not fights I would have taken for him. They were serious contenders. Anyone in the top 20 RJJ should NOT be in the ring with.
11-02-2013, 04:52 PM
IamInuit

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master

As crap and washed up as Chris Eubanks became after the brutal rights with Benn and Watson, he made great money entertaining people on Sky and fighting crap fighters defence after defence.

Exactly. Why do you think RJJ has been on a semi-successful world tour? From Australia to Russia, etc... he is on the world-wide selling tour of RJJ. :)

Too bad he still thinks of himself as a serious fighter. The days are long gone. Even guys he is supposed to be beating with ease are hurting him.

But, to be real, his fights against Danny Green and the Dennis Lebedev were not fights I would have taken for him. They were serious contenders. Anyone in the top 20 RJJ should NOT be in the ring with.

But that is not what you started out saying. That kind of selling ^ has been happening for over a hundred years. I was commenting on the selling of punches that either did not happen like Lampley shouts broadcast after broadcast or fake reactions to meaningless punches. In other words no longer boxing but reality tv.

I like realness likehttp://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...g/arguello.gif orhttp://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...play_image.jpg

Judges have enough problems with the real 10 point must system. Leave the plastic on the shelves with the rest of the toys. They start selling fake shit and I'll drop this sport.
11-02-2013, 10:26 PM
ray corso

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

When you watch a Gatti vs Ward you get two men who leave the concern of pacing to get the 10 rounds in. They give everything they have each round, they are BOTH exhausted after the final bell rings.
If EVER major bout was fought with that type of desire with the willingness to win every part of every round your question would have no relivance to towards the sport.
If the Mayweathers and Wlads of the sport gave max effort when the bell rang the sport would return to its glory. Instead they're reluctance to give all and simply do as little as possible to win brings no excitement or interest. They're performances are sold as "quality boxing" which has become a phrase used for a cover of "boredom Boxing"!

The big events seem staged because their so predictable just like a "pro wrestling script"!

Can you imagine that Mayweather earns 40mil+ for a set up spar session against opponents predetermined and actually groomed in some cases and then its fed to the public and the public buys it? Amazing, what do Gatti & Ward walk away with? I understand the importance in winning but I also want to see the "real deal" (as in Holyfield) HA!!! I'm tired of the cheaters! Cheaters in the fact that its packaged and sold and the effort is all in the promo not the fight. Mayweather and Canelo wren't even tired at the end of the bout hell they probablt went dancing.........................all the way to the bank off the fans who accept this "pro rastling" type garbage!
So to answer your question,,,,,,........yes its become an event............not a boxing/fight match! Ray
11-05-2013, 03:02 AM
ykdadamaja

Re: Selling in boxing- do you think we need that era?

Alls i'm saying is "professional fighters" should on some zazz during the fights.