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Chris Byrd fought that idiot the way someone should fight that idiot. And the idiot gave up, quit, got licked. Took Vitali Klit 10 rounds to beat journeyman Obed Sullivan, that 3rd-tier fighter from the 90s. Guys suck so bad now, thats the only reason the Klits are winning.
Brockton, I'm going to be honest.....you're a fucking moron
Vitali was 88-83 up on all cards and was breezing it.
Pfffft why you fell for the OLDEST conspiracy ever you dolt! Of course Vitali was up on the cards, he's in the Illuminati! DUH!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
who the fuck are them fuckers? they crop up on my twitter every now and again with some bolloxQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongPfffft why you fell for the OLDEST conspiracy ever you dolt! Of course Vitali was up on the cards, he's in the Illuminati! DUH!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
what a bunch of nobs they are
You keep catching them and yet never change the bait.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Seriously though I don't know why Vitali chose to quit like that. You'd think he could have coasted for another few rounds. Ah well.
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Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I've never torn a rotator cuff. I have no idea whats its like or how debilitating it is.
I'm sure it sucks, but in a HW championship fight that you're winning handily in front of your home town (or second home, anyway), you gotta go for that superhuman effort. We've seen guys tear their biceps completely off the bone and keep fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I've never torn a rotator cuff. I have no idea whats its like or how debilitating it is.
had to go back and watch those last few rounds. He was still able to throw with the left hand, but I think Chris Byrd knew he was hurt and wearing down, and was going on the offensive, and Vitali knew that Chris Byrd knew that and in a moment of weakness, he quit. I bet that decision haunted him for awhile.
BTW I LOVE Chris Byrd. Totally underrated slickster in the ring.
Chris is a bad dude, took the fight on 10 days notice and made Vitali quit.
@Dark Lord Al yes he was ahead of Byrd on all3 cards, but Byrd starting landing some nice crisp and surprisingly popping overhand lefts and Vitali was feeling it, did not like it one bit, Im sure in 2 more rounds Byrd would have stunned him real nice and got the decision.
But Vitali could have ran the rest of the fight and still won. He didn't need to throw another punch. And it wasn't as if he was fighting Ike Ibeabuchi or Mike Tyson, it was Chris Byrd. The only puncher that punches softer than Byrd is Paulie Malinaggi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Vitali suffered the same injury vs Chisora as well but finished that fight out.
Yeah I don't know why he didn't at least try. I guess that was his "no mas" moment (although not nearly as embarassing, at least he had a legit injury).Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
seeing as byrd made vitali quit does that make him better than lewis as vitali was still very willing to fight on v lewis...There's only one way to find out FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lets get 101 million together, 100 to lewis and 1 to byrd and we will find out the truth here... forget tyson holyfield 3, byrd v lewis is what everyone wants to see ....
as for vitali quiting v byrd I can understand why, vitali was still on the way up at the time and if his shoulder was really bad he could have done some serious long lasting damage to it and damaged his future career.... a fight v byrd for a small title isnt really worth that..
This is what is wrong with boxing. We complain when boxers are too scared to lose their 0 and won't risk fighting one another, yet we chastise a fighter for doing the smart thing and prolonging their career.
A shoulder blow out is potentially career ending, def not worth risking the rest of your career on, but we as fans have made a loss a huger deal than it should be.
This is the one area UFC beats boxing in, all of their top fighters mix it up because they are not scared to - they won't be written off over a single loss or for tapping out of an arm bar instead of letting their arm be broken.
Can't say I really like MMA as a sport, but fuck me if the attitude of boxing fans doesn't stink sometimes compared to MMA fans.
This guy quit... This guy was exposed... This guy lost once so he's not a credible opponent for anyone... :rolleyes:
No wonder promoters are reluctant to match their fighters against opposition of the same class.
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Originally Posted by AdamGB
Usually I agree, but I don't think this scenario was so cut and dry. Would another 3 rounds really make that big a difference to the shoulder injury?
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Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Usually I agree, but I don't think this scenario was so cut and dry. Would another 3 rounds really make that big a difference to the shoulder injury?
It could have been a career ender and as mentioned it later haunted him with Del boy. Vitali gets the benefit of the doubt with me. He never did anything like that before or after. I dont consider what he did a quit. Its like saying Greb quit against Graves. We simply do not know how serious it was at the time. Maybe someone could find a copy of the x-rays and then we could put an APB out for an x-ray technician Losing and arm in a boxing match tends to make the task at hand a little difficult.
Speaking directly from personal experience - yes. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Usually I agree, but I don't think this scenario was so cut and dry. Would another 3 rounds really make that big a difference to the shoulder injury?
True, but with a lot of money at stake you would see it through.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBSpeaking directly from personal experience - yes. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Usually I agree, but I don't think this scenario was so cut and dry. Would another 3 rounds really make that big a difference to the shoulder injury?
Take time to think that over miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfTrue, but with a lot of money at stake you would see it through.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBSpeaking directly from personal experience - yes. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Usually I agree, but I don't think this scenario was so cut and dry. Would another 3 rounds really make that big a difference to the shoulder injury?
Money from 1 fight vs money you can make in a career.
Look at what happened to Evander Holyfield when he screwed up his shoulders vs James Toney...he was never the same. Granted he was an older fighter, but still. Look at Robert Helenius, he suffered a MAJOR setback with his shoulder injury.
Can't compare regular joes like us to a super athlete like Vitali though.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Well I think it's undisputable that he quit, I guess the argument is just whether or not it was justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I'm not saying it was a full bitch-out, pussy move like Duran's No mas, but at the same time he didn't show the warrior's spirit, the "never say die" attitude that we've come to expect (right or wrong) from world champion boxers.
Whether or not he saved his career by quitting, I have no idea. But my question would be how did he know for certain he had a torn rotator cuff? It could have been just a strained or pulled muscle in the shoulder. In that moment, I doubt he could have known that it was potential career ender, even with his education in sports science.
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Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell I think it's undisputable that he quit, I guess the argument is just whether or not it was justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I'm not saying it was a full bitch-out, pussy move like Duran's No mas, but at the same time he didn't show the warrior's spirit, the "never say die" attitude that we've come to expect (right or wrong) from world champion boxers.
Whether or not he saved his career by quitting, I have no idea. But my question would be how did he know for certain he had a torn rotator cuff? It could have been just a strained or pulled muscle in the shoulder. In that moment, I doubt he could have known that it was potential career ender, even with his education in sports science.
He stopped due to injury to what might be classed as a tad imperative in a boxing match. The use of an arm. "Quit" suggests something dishonourable. Duran quit. Vitali was unable to continue because of a torn rotator cuff. Big difference to me but if its the same to you then no sense continuing here. In my mind he never quit.
You guys are thinking past the obvious here.. way past it. Doing anything with a torn shoulder hurts so bad, you just cannot imagine. Even holding your arm up at a level to protect your face. He was not thinking about the future or anything but the pain he was in THAT moment. 3 rounds with a professional heavyweight would be devastating.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Usually I agree, but I don't think this scenario was so cut and dry. Would another 3 rounds really make that big a difference to the shoulder injury?
A broken fist (knuckles, what have you) at least you can defend yourself.
Yeah... Way more to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerCan't compare regular joes like us to a super athlete like Vitali though.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Meanwhile in a any town U.S.A Starbucks Byrd is serving Lattes and coffee cake to customers and Vitali runs for President elsewhere ;D The label of quitter is thrown around way too loosely. I think Vitali may have mentally unraveled a tad against a very sharp fighter and down a limb but the injury proved legit and as would be proven he was very capable to come back from adversity. It's easy to say a guy should "just suck it up and warrior on" but there is something to say about intelligence when both your offense and defense are both at a big disadvantage. I dunno, I don't get punched in the face for a living.
But he did have use of his left arm. Obviously it was nowhere near fully operational, but he was throwing punches with it in the round before he quit. It's not like it was hanging limp at his side.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I won't argue semantics, but when you choose to stop something, that's a quit to me. Wasn't like it was a corner or doctor stoppage. He was the one to say "no mas, senor".
As far as this ending career stuff... I dunno man. I've heard of guys going into fights with torn rotator cuffs and fighting the duration. Floyd reportedly tore his rotator cuff a few days before Castillo 1, and UFC fighter Korean Zombie fought and won a fight with a torn rotator cuff last year.
Whatever though, I'm a big Klitschko fan and I think Vitali more than redeemed himself afterwards. But I'd say he regretted that decision.
Well if that's how you feel, I think you should change your signature and show Floyd respect. He fought 12 rounds with a torn rotator cuff against a relentless pressure fighter with huge power.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
He must be the toughest guy in the history of boxing.
This made me start thinking of Buddy McGirt. He tore his left bicep against Bermudez then went on and put on an absolute clinic vs Simon Brown. Had re injured it, had nearly pulled out against his mandatory but fought..nearly getting tkod late...then fought Whitaker and tore his rotator in the third round, clear as day and he might as well have had the left tapped to his side but he arguably beat the p4p Whitaker in the end. Dude was never the same though.
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Originally Posted by Spicoli
It comes down to self preservation. Had Vitali continued he may have not had a career.Pascal had shoulder problems early in his career and carried on and that has cut his career off in many ways over the past 5 years. He cant pick up a glass of water w/o a shoulder dislocating.
Im just stuck on the roller coaster and thinking outloud. To me, Vitali did what he thought and felt he had to do. In the moment can you question it or yell quit..yeah. Fourteen years later and what he's done and had the opportunity to accomplish, avoid, etc can you yell quit with full legitimacy...imho...Hell no! To boot, it was a legit injury but at the benefit of hindsight. On one day we pray for a Mago but emphasis his limitations, another we yell quit and shame on a guy because we gauge his ability higher and the opponent lesser or suspect!? Its all just Cybil. Someone put something in my coffeeQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
It comes down to self preservation. Had Vitali continued he may have not had a career.Pascal had shoulder problems early in his career and carried on and that has cut his career off in many ways over the past 5 years. He cant pick up a glass of water w/o a shoulder dislocating.
Chris Byrd fought his best and eluded a lot of damage as always, made Vitali miss a lot. Other than that he performed terrible against him, Vitali won nearly every round. It was only through his gift retirement via major injury not caused by any punch which presented Byrd with a belt.
I love Byrd personally but there's no way he could beat legitimately either Klitschko... EVER! lol
vit klit dicked out....Marciano fought with his nose hanging off. Ali fought with contused kidneys and Ali fought 15 rounds with Ken Norton with a broken jaw.
yeah, vit klit will never be a Marciano, and he will never be an Ali either.
blockbuster;
I will agree with you on that comment.
In the sense you are referring too above, the Klits lack "toughness" and the old timers clearly had that. It's changing times. I could argue that the Klits have far more self respect and are far smarter though.
However I would also like to add that Vitali retiring against Byrd was one of the two most disgraceful acts in HW boxing (the other being "chicken Bowe").
All he had to do was go out there and defend for a couple of rounds and he would have won the fight without throwing another single punch.
Larry Merchant was correct. He did not display the mentality of a champion!
Since then, however, he did in fact earn back his respect!
Agreed. I think he earned back his respect in the Lewis brawl. Those guys went to war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Vitali has shown he has a great chin and heart subsequently and luckily not defined by that defeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerAgreed. I think he earned back his respect in the Lewis brawl. Those guys went to war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
I think the Vitali of 2003-onward would have fought on.