Ike for president?

Ike Ibeabuchi...

Certain champion were he to have kept his hands off strippers?
Or just a good prospect besting some other good ones but ultimately lacking the refinement to match the likes of a technician like Lewis?

Personally I think he had decent skills and certainly could brawl but needed some more attention.

However with the right training and management he could have become one of the greatest HW's of all time!

David Tua beat Hasim Rahman (although Rahman was the better fighter but a win is a win), Ike UD'd Tua

Vitali RTD'd against Byrd. Ike tracked down the elusive Byrd and banged him out more impressively than anybody has ever caught him.

you have to say byrd was peaking around that time, full of ambition and belief

Ike would have beaten wlad in a boxing fight, wlad would just hold his way to a win against him in germany tho if ike was around nowadays

Nigerian heavyweights have always showed promise and always come up short. Like would have been no different. Holyfield or Lewis would have ended him...he took too much unnecessary punishment. Chris Byrd really frustrated him until he finally caught Chris but it showed that Like could be outboxed.

Yeah for his stamina and strength, did did not have the best defence! That's true. But to trade with Tua a full 12 rounds like that, must have an amazing chin!!

Ike gets pretty trumped up based largely on 2 fights. He obviously had physical quality but the damage he took with Tua helped his already in motion mental decline. I doubt seriously he had the mental make up to grind it out without a Holyfield among others.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Yeah for his stamina and strength, did did not have the best defence! That's true. But to trade with Tua a full 12 rounds like that, must have an amazing chin!!

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I watched that fight and Ike was the first to start BOXING meaning he figured out he wasn't going to outslug Tua and once Ike did box a bit more he did all the better in the fight.

I just think that when he was given an opponent who was exceptional at 1 thing he could figure a way around that. Against Byrd he slugged his way out of a jam vs Tua he boxed a little but if he was to fight someone who offered BOTH like Holyfield or Lewis then who knows how he would have handled it? Also how was his footwork? Nobody knows because nobody made him use it. Nigerian heavies are often slow afoot.

I think Evander would have had a tough time early on but as the rounds went on and Evander stood in the pocket Ike would wear down sure enough. Lennox would use his roughhouse tactics on Ike and utilize his height and reach to keep Ike from retaliating and Lennox would at the very least win a decision.

Nigerian heavyweights have a tendency to have big power and SEEMINGLY quick hands but if you line them all up once they get to the very tip top level their hand speed is less than average and their punches are a bit wide, and they take too much punishment.

When I say "Nigerian heavyweights" I am speaking about: Samuel Peter, David Izon, Friday Ahunaya, Duncan Dokiwari, Teke Oruh, and Gbenga Oloukun. Ike Ibeabuchi is always left out because he had half a career, we never got to see him struggle vs the tip top of the division because he never fought there...he fought CLOSE to the top but not on the peak. Ike was at the very least a great contender and at the very most a shocking power puncher....but greatness? Who is to say if he could break the stereotype of Nigerian heavyweights. I will say that Ike was probably the greatest heavyweight Nigeria ever produced, he'd just edge out Sam Peter for that based on POTENTIAL rather than achievements because Sam achieved more.

Ike had all the talent in the world but he was severely mentally ill so eventually he would have been sectioned, arrested or killed.

As I recall that fight, Tua never really nailed him with a big left hook. David had a tendency to wait and load up, not letting his punches flow. So a little movement could unsettle him. He wasn't that hard to fight if you could stick to it...which could be hard to do given the knowledge of how hard he could hit you.
Byrd and Tua are both real limited guys, in terms of what they offered, very one dimensional. And Ike had Hedgeman Lewis -Curtis Cokes?- I have always confused them, but either one, they are both very boxing smart, so they could teach a guy to get around an opponent that didn't offer much adaptability.
A test would have been how he got around the reach of Lewis, how he handled getting hit trying to get in. Lewis, and some of these other guys, I don't think they offer much beyond physical advantages. Their overall skill level isn't too good, though knowing how to use your advantages is worth a lot.

If you want to figure out just how Ike Ibeabuchi could get overrated just imagine if Sam Peter's last ever fight was against Jeremy Williams......it changes the perspective drastically.

Ibeabuchi will go down as another tragic "what if". Nobody can know for sure.

He was a big strapping guy with a big punch, a solid chin and a lot of heart. And he was undoubtedly had some nice skills to go along with it.

Would he have continued to refine his skills and gone on to greatness? Or would he have fizzled out like so many promising prospects before and after him?

We'll never know. Like Tony Ayala Jr, he decided he'd rather spend his prime in a jail cell, rather than trying to realise his potential. It's a shame.

IKe would have beat the Clits for sure. He would have beat everybody except for maybe Lewis..

I seen Ike wither from a few of Tua's blows and I seen him frustrated by Byrd before he struck it rich. So there is merit in what one man above claimed.

Any claims he could have been the greatest is pure speculation of course which is why I don't rank him anywhere silly but I atleast think he is better than Samuel Peter who gave Wlad a hard fight.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

IKe would have beat the Clits for sure. He would have beat everybody except for maybe Lewis..

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Oh would he have? And what do you base that prediction on besides Ike's fights vs Byrd and Tua?

If you look at Wlad fight Byrd I or II he NEVER struggled with Byrd at all the way Ike did. And vs Tua Ike brawled for a bit but he was the one whose constitution weakened and he decided he had better start boxing.

Also Holyfield would have schooled Ike because he would have stayed in the pocket, shoulder rolled and countered everything Ike threw at him and Evander would have never given him a moments rest.

I don't know, aside from obviously being a scary nutcase he showed a lot of promise and no major chinks in the armour to me. Beating Tua and Byrd when they were both undefeated is very impressive for a 24 year old man without much of a learning curve before that point. As grey said both were limited but they couldn't have been more different either, Ike obviously had some depth to him. I thought he could have made the Tua fight wider and quite a bit easier on himself to, maybe he didn't have the poise to box under a lot of pressure though who knows. Bottom line is he was crazy and wasn't going to avoid prison much longer than he did.

The FACT is that Ibeabuchi had half a career due to his mental illness which may or may not have been exacerbated by CTE (just throwing that out there). How he would have faired vs more well established/well rounded fighters is a mystery and how long his career would have lasted is also a mystery. Joe Mesi looked good to fight 10-20 more times right before he fought Jirov, ditto Magomed Abdusalamov. What I try to do is base how Ike Ibeabuchi was vs how other fighters from Nigeria did as pros. Yes there's plenty of room for error as David Izon is not Sam Peter and neither is Duncan Dokiwari, but there is a pattern fighters from Nigeria seem to follow. They start off looking like unstoppable beasts, they slow down, and they end up taking too much punishment from being in one too many battles.

Fair enough, point is he was on a good track and you can't write off his chances completely any more than you can say he would have beaten someone like Holyfield. Few great HW's ever looked completely unstoppable at the same stage of their career, hell Holyfield was going life or death with lesser guys when he first moved to HW and he had a much better pedigree beforehand. I think Sam Peter or Joe Mesi would have been food for a young David Tua also, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

IKe would have beat the Clits for sure. He would have beat everybody except for maybe Lewis..

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Oh would he have? And what do you base that prediction on besides Ike's fights vs Byrd and Tua?

If you look at Wlad fight Byrd I or II he NEVER struggled with Byrd at all the way Ike did. And vs Tua Ike brawled for a bit but he was the one whose constitution weakened and he decided he had better start boxing.

Also Holyfield would have schooled Ike because he would have stayed in the pocket, shoulder rolled and countered everything Ike threw at him and Evander would have never given him a moments rest.

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We can't make judgements off common opponents but since you mentioned Wlad-Byrd, what about Vitali-Byrd? Byrd schooled Vitali and made em quit like a Ukranian hooker while Ike knocked em out viciously .. and BTW, Byrd was over the hill when he fought Wlad..

It seems like Holy have been old forever. If he had fought Ike any time in the 2000s, he would have got seriously injured..

Ike would fuck up a prime Tyson my friend.

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def...?itok=eTpaCn77

It reflected poorly on Vitali that he quit but it didn't have a lot to do with Byrd imo, who didn't win a round and wasn't going to turn the fight around. Byrd fought Wlad like a year after Ike beat him and before any of his best performances, no idea where that comes from. Ike would not have beaten a prime Tyson based on anything he ever showed in the ring, going by the Tua fight alone Tyson would've thrown more with a much better variety without getting hit so much.

Now Finito I am all for claiming Ike MAY have been able to make it to the top but I'm not so sure I'd be making statements like he'd smash up Wlad, Vitali, Tyson and Holyfield like that and maybe only lose to Lewis. It's a strong statement given the assumptions you've made.

For one thing, Vitali thrashed Byrd, it was a gift retirement, that's it! Byrd did nothing to deserve that belt, NOTHING!

Anyway Byrd was frustrating Ike before he got whacked. Wladimir wasted Byrd easy.

As for Tua it was a fair even slugfest really, Ike wilting under the power of Tua but Ike throwing and landing a greater volume of shots due to combination punching over Tua's hard single shots.

I think he had the potential though sure!

I do believe if his illness was diagnosed and controlled early enough, Ike would of been a heavyweight with decent power, a solid chin and little more.

Now 'just' having them virtues in this Heavyweight era maybe good enough to sneak a world ranking, but back in the 90s the quality of the Heavyweights was such, I suspect Ibeabuchi would have at best lost a fight to a top contender, then been an 'opponent' for future contenders.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

We can't make judgements off common opponents but since you mentioned Wlad-Byrd, what about Vitali-Byrd? Byrd schooled Vitali and made em quit like a Ukranian hooker while Ike knocked em out viciously .. and BTW, Byrd was over the hill when he fought Wlad..

It seems like Holy have been old forever. If he had fought Ike any time in the 2000s, he would have got seriously injured..

Ike would fuck up a prime Tyson my friend.

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A few things
#1 Vitali was ahead on all 3 scorecards and only retired due to a torn rotator cuff. Or didn't you know that since it's not like it had been discussed on this very site over a hundred times?
#2 Wlad fought and beat Chris Byrd when Chris Byrd held a title. In the first match it was the WBO title, in the rematch it was the IBF title. Over the hill indeed.
#3 Ibeabuchi never won a title did he? Awww shame that.
#4 Prime Tyson? Eh I think Tyson would take him on points in his prime. But then again we don't know how good Ibeabuchi could have been, we just know he couldn't outbox Byrd and he couldn't outslug Tua.
#5 Just from the standpoint of being offended by a poor choice of insults "Quit like a Ukrainian hooker" ....are Ukrainian hookers known for their lack of intestinal fortitude? Are they recognized world wide as giving up when the going gets tough? Or are you just having fun trying to type some kind of scathing insult and this is the best you could come up with?

Back to the drawing board chump

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

We can't make judgements off common opponents but since you mentioned Wlad-Byrd, what about Vitali-Byrd? Byrd schooled Vitali and made em quit like a Ukranian hooker while Ike knocked em out viciously .. and BTW, Byrd was over the hill when he fought Wlad..

It seems like Holy have been old forever. If he had fought Ike any time in the 2000s, he would have got seriously injured..

Ike would fuck up a prime Tyson my friend.

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A few things
#1 Vitali was ahead on all 3 scorecards and only retired due to a torn rotator cuff. Or didn't you know that since it's not like it had been discussed on this very site over a hundred times?
#2 Wlad fought and beat Chris Byrd when Chris Byrd held a title. In the first match it was the WBO title, in the rematch it was the IBF title. Over the hill indeed.
#3 Ibeabuchi never won a title did he? Awww shame that.
#4 Prime Tyson? Eh I think Tyson would take him on points in his prime. But then again we don't know how good Ibeabuchi could have been, we just know he couldn't outbox Byrd and he couldn't outslug Tua.
#5 Just from the standpoint of being offended by a poor choice of insults "Quit like a Ukrainian hooker" ....are Ukrainian hookers known for their lack of intestinal fortitude? Are they recognized world wide as giving up when the going gets tough? Or are you just having fun trying to type some kind of scathing insult and this is the best you could come up with?

Back to the drawing board chump

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Owned.

Ive got to add my 2 cents worth here....

I knew Ike from the day he walked into Curtis Cokes Home of Champions gym in Dallas Tx.
He was telling everyone he was going to be world heavyweight champ & no one would beat him.
I watched as Curtis molded him from a crude brawler to being a great boxer / puncher.
He was right in his statement that day No one did beat him in the ring as a pro. His downfall came at the hands of a vegas hooker.
In my opinion Ike would have been the natural successor to Lennox Lewis. The Klitschko brothers would have been demolished.
As for Ike's mental condition? Put yourself in his place he was kept under heavy sedation for 14 months like a zombie almost because they were scared of what he MIGHT do
After 14 months of sedation anyone would have mental problems don't you think
Yes it was a tragedy what happened to Ike Ibeabuchi not only for him but for Curtis Cokes too. Its every trainers dream to train the heavyweight champ. Curtis had two guys more than capable Ike & Kirk Johnson bot both failed to win it for very different reasons