The Haye Blueprint

We've heard it before... "The key to beating Wlad is constant pressure"

We've heard the excuses... "Wlad's opponents are useless, the division is a joke, nobody has enough skills to get inside Wlad's jab, go to the body, drop his hands and pop him in the head" As if the task were EASY!

And we've seen the results... Time and again, the pressure fails.

Ever since the last scare against Samuel Peter Wlad has never been troubled by this sort of fighter again. I recall during an earlier Wlad fight (perhaps his loss to Sander's I'm not sure) that Merchant, Lampley and Foreman were saying how Wladimir "needs to learn how to clinch his way out of trouble". Well LOL Wladimir and Manny must have reviewed the HBO coverage and thought it was a good idea because this is how Wlad has managed to get himself out of trouble ever since!

David Haye under performed in his fight with Wladimir it's true but imo he did show us a glimpse of what might have been.

The blue print David showed us requires a fighter like David- he must be fast of foot and hand to dart in throw a surprise shot or 2 and get the hell out. He must be powerful enough to wobble Wlad and possess superior reflexes to avoid the damage from Wlad's big long shots on the way in.

The blueprint is quite the opposite, to hang out of range and dart in and out with sneaky, quick but bombing attacks in the hopes of really hurting the champ.

Trouble is, who apart from David Haye could potentially pull off such an event?

Maybe Wilder with some refinement or Boytsov???

its impossible to beat him. he is just too good :)

no fighter has troubled him since peter because since peter he has been allowed to clinch to extremes, his fights no longer resemble boxing

Yes I am aware as we all are the reason why, I described the "huggy bear" tactics.

But the fact is he IS doing it and he IS getting away with it so clearly a different approach is required or he will hug again! lol

Notice the bigger taller fighters try stand up fight tactics with him, they do NOT try to rush in. But Wlad will always beat these guys too because he can out punch anybody his own size in terms of both speed and power, a product of his superior conditioning that no other 245lb 6'6" 81" reach HW could match at this time or has ever matched previously!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Yes I am aware as we all are the reason why, I described the "huggy bear" tactics.

But the fact is he IS doing it and he IS getting away with it so clearly a different approach is required or he will hug again! lol

Notice the bigger taller fighters try stand up fight tactics with him, they do NOT try to rush in. But Wlad will always beat these guys too because he can out punch anybody his own size in terms of both speed and power, a product of his superior conditioning that no other 245lb 6'6" 81" reach HW could match at this time or has ever matched previously!

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the taller fighters he has fought have been utter shit, the best has probably been tony thompson and he looked utter rubbish against pulev

the fact is that there is extreme amounts of corruption surrounding his fights, in any other fight with any other ref he would be DQ'd

i am honestly doubtful that anyone would be allowed to beat him now, imagine if haye had landed a big punch, what lengths would the ref and ringside officials go to to ensure he was given time to recover and that haye wouldnt be allowed to land another punch

the only way to beat him and therefor the blue print is to get him away from eastern europe / germany and get an impartial ref

he is clearly good at what he does, very few other men would have been able to apply those tactics so well against the better fighters he has fought and win the fights, its just that his tactics arent in the boxing rule book

I have to be honest here, his last fight was a bit much I agree.

But that fight where he went beyond the limit for me was in Russia, Povetkin's home ground with a supposedly home ref right?

Why didn't he separate them?

It's disgusting but are we sure it is not allowed are we? I have heard much dispute on that matter.

Tony Thompson was probably his best taller opponent granted. I think Tony gave Wlad a good fight when they fought. Tony is old now. That is a good example, Thompson was able to breach Wlad's defences. But punch speed and punch power won him the fight!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

I have to be honest here, his last fight was a bit much I agree.

But that fight where he went beyond the limit for me was in Russia, Povetkin's home ground with a supposedly home ref right?

Why didn't he separate them?

It's disgusting but are we sure it is not allowed are we? I have heard much dispute on that matter.

Tony Thompson was probably his best taller opponent granted. I think Tony gave Wlad a good fight when they fought. Tony is old now. That is a good example, Thompson was able to breach Wlad's defences. But punch speed and punch power won him the fight!

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have a look who has reffed wlads last few fights, it was wlads ref in the provetkin fight doing what he always does, and lets be honest, russia isnt exactly an away day for wlad, when he fights anyone but provetkin he is russian

haye was poor against wlad but wlads holding was extreme in that fight also

and it isnt allowed, the rules clearly state that holding isnt allowed and is considered a fowl

and how shit would the sport be if it was allowed? it would be like mma (or one of wlads fights)

Well there has to be a loophole. The WBA, WBO, IBF and Ring magazine management and the commissions are not going to allow Wlad to cheat for a decade to remain champion. Something he is doing is legal.

Anyway I was not aware that it was Wlad's ref involved in Povetkin fight. That ref should never be allowed to ref a title fight again.

I think they should enter a clause where Wlad must defend every second fight on the challengers home ground or atleast a neutral ground with neutral refs.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Well there has to be a loophole. The WBA, WBO, IBF and Ring magazine management and the commissions are not going to allow Wlad to cheat for a decade to remain champion. Something he is doing is legal.

Anyway I was not aware that it was Wlad's ref involved in Povetkin fight. That ref should never be allowed to ref a title fight again.

I think they should enter a clause where Wlad must defend every second fight on the challengers home ground or atleast a neutral ground with neutral refs.

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Money

Money

Money

the IBF, WBA, WBO make a mint out of wlad fights, they wouldnt do anything about stopping it, and if that ref didnt ref wlad fights they would just pay someone else a mint to let him cheat, and why would they have wlad fight anywhere else with a different ref if there was a chance of him losing

the reality is we are just going to have to wait until he retires to have any interesting and fair HW title fights again

The way to beat Wladimir is a process with many steps. Make him move constantly, initiate clinches only to break them early and punch on the way out, use angles, work the body specifically the ribs under the left arm to attempt to stymie his jab. If he leans on you just give way, no use in fighting against his weight, plus it won't be ruled a knockdown unless he hits you on the way down.

A lot of fighters seem to want to make Wlad reach and miss, but the issue with that is (especially if Wlad's using his jab) Wlad will half punch the jab, paw with it, leaving his arm partially extended and from that position he can and does land full power jabs when he believes he's in better range and when his opponents think they are just out of range. It's almost like in ice hockey with a poke check, sometimes a defenseman will give a forward a little room by pulling his stick back a bit, and when the forward gets too comfortable , BANG! The defenseman shoots the stick at the puck and causes a turnover. It's the same concept Wlad utilizes with his jab.

nah you ant got the foggiest idea what youre on about

theres 1 way to beat him, get yourself in a position where any fight you have would generate more money than any fight he would have, and where you could do that on a consitent regular basis

What blueprint bruh? lol He didnt do shit but run like a girl and getting on his knees a bunch of times in fear of getting hit.

If anything, Lamon Brewster's blueprint is the best even though Wlad may not be the same fighter today.. He still had the right idea

Amir Mansour can beat Wlad

What blueprint did Brewster bring? Get your head punched in so bad you couldn't even remember your name and be gifted with a win via steroid overdose or poisoning? Then in the rematch get your head punched in and hope for the same thing to happen except the opponent was healthy this time?

Yeah sounds like a sure fire plan genius lol

We already know how Wlad treats guys like this these days.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

If anything, Lamon Brewster's blueprint is the best even though Wlad may not be the same fighter today.. He still had the right idea

Amir Mansour can beat Wlad

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Lamon Brewster's "blueprint" :vd: for beating Wlad was just to get punched in the head, get knocked down, have Wlad gun for the KO and absorb all that punishment until Wlad tired out. Now call me crazy, but I don't see A) Wlad being dumb enough to gas out again and B ) any heavyweight who is either tough enough or dumb enough to allow Wlad to beat the ever living crap out of them until he's tired.


Amir Mansour is 41, is too small, and he had better not take his focus off of Kelvin Price.

Wlad excessively held against Povetkin, which was very strange as he was clearly in complete control at all times. In his previous fights he did not. There are very few boxers who do not hold when on the inside when they are the bigger man and to suggest Wlad would be DQd by other refs is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

Wlad excessively held against Povetkin, which was very strange as he was clearly in complete control at all times. In his previous fights he did not. There are very few boxers who do not hold when on the inside when they are the bigger man and to suggest Wlad would be DQd by other refs is bullshit.

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really depends how much the refs were being paid

in a normal boxing fight under normal boxing rules he would be dq'd without a doubt

in eastern europe where theres millions of pounds flying around he would have a long hugging reign as HW champ

and if you think he hasnt excessively held before you cant have watched any of his other fights

I dunno man I don't think he would be DQ'd. Some refs dislike holding more than others, obviously not Wlad's fights refs lol but I think all that would happen is they'd be split up faster and Wlad would land even more shots in between clinches, wearing his opponent down more with punches and less with weight.

His clinching is merely a way when he is out of his comfort zone to reset back to his normal distance where he likes to be. He either hops out of range, or steps in for the clinch. Wlad's "natural habitat", where he wants to be and will do either thing to remain there, is with his opponent at the end of his long jab.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

I dunno man I don't think he would be DQ'd. Some refs dislike holding more than others, obviously not Wlad's fights refs lol but I think all that would happen is they'd be split up faster and Wlad would land even more shots in between clinches, wearing his opponent down more with punches and less with weight.

His clinching is merely a way when he is out of his comfort zone to reset back to his normal distance where he likes to be. He either hops out of range, or steps in for the clinch. Wlad's "natural habitat", where he wants to be and will do either thing to remain there, is with his opponent at the end of his long jab.

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how ever his clinching works for him, it isnt in the rules and thats the only fact in all of this, the rest is all opinion

my opinion that he is only still champ because he is allowed to bend the rules so excessively is just an opinion

your opinion that he would land more punches if he was stopped from clinching so much is just an opinion

even the opinion that he clinches excessively is only an opinion

the only fact is that clinching is against the rules

the big question is - why is wlad, the HW champion of the world, allowed to break the rules to such extreme levels?

it is my opinion that it is down to the money he generates in every fight, and how much less rich a lot of people would be if he was no longer champ, but again that is just an opinion

Fair enough Eric. The thing that gets to me then is why hasn't there been a formal inquiry into this and why has all relevant authorities been silent on it? I mean it's all over all the forums regarding Wlad so unless it's pure corruption or conspiracy theory stuff, either it IS within the rules or perhaps your explaination is correct. There's no inquiry because of the money involved.

However there's a bit of controversy here, surely they would want the title back home in the US if that could come about and surely there would be immense support to have the titles in the hands of more exciting boxers. That would have to weigh heavily against any corruption.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Fair enough Eric. The thing that gets to me then is why hasn't there been a formal inquiry into this and why has all relevant authorities been silent on it? I mean it's all over all the forums regarding Wlad so unless it's pure corruption or conspiracy theory stuff, either it IS within the rules or perhaps your explaination is correct. There's no inquiry because of the money involved.

However there's a bit of controversy here, surely they would want the title back home in the US if that could come about and surely there would be immense support to have the titles in the hands of more exciting boxers. That would have to weigh heavily against any corruption.

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I hear what you are saying, why isnt something done about it, why arent more people shouting about it on a bigger scale than just the forums? i am mythed about that myself

holding is definately not in the rules tho, just to confirm :)

i agree on another point too, that the US almost should be home of HW champion, but is there an american out there who would generate the money that wlad would? are the governing bodies bothered where the champ is from as long as they are making a mint?

another thing that staggers me tho is why so many people pay to watch him fight, his fights are so shit, i am a big boxing fan and i watch any fighting thats on at any level, its virtually all i watch on the TV, that and football

and there arent too many fighters who make me turn over but wlad is one of them, theres nothing to enjoy about his fights apart from perhaps a few seconds right at the end

and i agree on the reasoning behind this thread

the only way to beat wlad under his rules would be to avoid the clinches on the outside (run basically) and land potshots, and you would probably need to catch him quite early

its no suprise that probably the 2 best fighters that wlad has faced have fought that way

provetkin looked valient but the fight was over after a couple of rounds in terms of him having any chance of winning

I can only agree with you from here. I watch loads of boxing, particularly HW and I have to say of all the great champs I watch, Wlad is among the most boring and shameful I've seen! His brother, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, these guys had some violent shootouts. Can't say I'd be satisfied the same way had I paid for a Wlad fight PPV or ringside.

Your analysis of boxing seems pretty sharp! (y)

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

Wlad excessively held against Povetkin, which was very strange as he was clearly in complete control at all times. In his previous fights he did not. There are very few boxers who do not hold when on the inside when they are the bigger man and to suggest Wlad would be DQd by other refs is bullshit.

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really depends how much the refs were being paid

in a normal boxing fight under normal boxing rules he would be dq'd without a doubt

in eastern europe where theres millions of pounds flying around he would have a long hugging reign as HW champ

and if you think he hasnt excessively held before you cant have watched any of his other fights

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ive seen a lot of his fights and not much more clicnhing then other heavyweight fights. Lewis v Vitali was one of the best heavyweight fights of the last 20 years. Both fighters clinched and held a lot in that fight, virtually everytime it got to the inside. Any fight Mike Tyson was in his opponents would try clinch on the inside, he was just good enough to deal with it, fighters now are not.

Whatever it is, don't follow it
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