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Lewis would have learned his lazy lesson for coming in like a fat slob in the first fight, he would have whipped his 38 year old body into the best shape he could, and he would---in typical vengeful Lennox fashion---have exacted a startlingly brutal revenge upon Klitschko that we would still be talking about today. That's how he did it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiTAN4UVXTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP44XPLEsqs
You might be right blockbuster. But that begs the question then... Why didn't he?
Honestly I think prime 4 prime Vitali and Lewis are about equal, but I do think the best of Lennox would get the better of Vitali and I rate him above.
Then again I can fully appreciate the other side of the coin as well. Lennox fought a lot of his great fighters when they were not prime and he had some questionable struggles against pretty average opponents, not McCall and Rahman mind you, he had difficulties against an aged, drug addicted Tucker, Frank fucking Bruno (say no more!), luckily beat Ray Mercer, couldn't KO Mavrovic and on and on.
Vitali NEVER seemed to struggle with any opponent, even Lewis himself! As another man pointed out apart from the usual pro-Vitali stuff, body language told a lot, Lewis did not want no more, Vitali wanted more!
I rate Lennox Lewis as the #1 all time but I have no issue with anybody who regards a Klitschko there over Lewis, especially Vitali!
I feel at this time, Lewis would have trained and focussed harder but Vitali would have done the same and he was so confident and so hungry for Lewis I think Vitali would have beaten him. I think Lewis knew Vitali would have got him the next time round too and that's why he retired. Especially after seeing him harpoon Johnson like he did which nobody had ever done before. The man had fire in his eyes then and he wanted Lewis bad!
A wise choice for Lennox!
Vitali UD Lennox!
The Lennox that wasted Rahman a couple years earlier than hypothetical rematch, I would edge Lennox!
don't believe Lennox when he says he was out of shape... Lewis was training for a fight that fell through, he was in shape. We've seen Lennox out of shape, and he gets KO'ed on those days... he was I great shape to withstand what he took from Vitali.
In a re-match, Vitali all day. to this day, I think the punch that opened up Vitli is a thumb. I'm not sure why, but there's a few punches that land on Vitali with the edge of Lennox glove... was it on purpose? there's no telling what these guys train for.
did Lennox get away with holding and hitting..yes.. did he hold Vitali behind the head as well, yes. did the ref seem one sided..yes.
the eye was bad, but Vitali ABSOLUTELY wanted to go on...Lewis, he was happy is was stopped. Lewis jumped at a chance to fight Wlad, but when a rematch was asked, he retired...lol.
It would all depend on whether Lennox was actually capable of getting himself into better shape for a rematch. No doubt he was a better fighter than either Klitschko in my mind, at his best he would have smoked either.
no doubt Lennox is a better fighter? cuz his style is more conventional? Vitali has never been behind in a fight...EVER.
*his two losses should've prob been no contest.
*his KO ratio is one of the highest in boxing history.
*he's still fighting and dominating and looks like he could fight till 50 if he wanted too.
How can an argument be made that Lennox is a better fighter, ?
I'm sorry but I have to back my man stinkybug up on this. Lewis did in fact look great in that fight. He did not even LOOK too bad FOR tht fight. He came in only 5lbs heavier- FIVE than his usual weight and had been training for another tough opponent (Johnson) before taking the Vitali fight for which Vits only had 2 weeks to prepare as well! He fought better than he had on many occasions except he met very stiff resistance.
I also agree the cuts were caused by a lot of thumbing, side gloving, an elbow etc and certainly not from the force of Lewis's punches, all of which is common knowledge. I mean come on look at the gashes and get real! Those are tear wounds not blunt trauma injuries. A punch that hard would knock anybody out.
I really think Lennox and Vitali are more or less on equal footing prime for prime. I like Lewis and he looks smoother than the more robotic Vitali but Vitali moves with a surgical precision and is always more alert than show pony Lewis. Lewis definitely hits harder though and shows more variety
Lewis and V.Klitschko are both such tremendous giant technicians, boxer-punchers and dominant champions that neither of these guys deserved to be bashed in favour of the other. And both provoded us with some great battles and gun fights to maul over.
The argument for Lewis is that he beat the other candidates for GOAT HW of his generation in Holyfield and Tyson, was ducked by Riddick Bowe who he beat in Olympics anyway and defeated every other boxer he ever faced in arguably the strongest era in HW history.
There was no rematch because Lennox decided that was it, be was through hitting and being hit.
He had money, fame and chess. How can anyone question his choice?
I'm not questioning his choice. Good for Lennox, sincerely.
But he did want to fight and sign his legacy which lets face it was kind of dented by Vitali a little bit, then saw the demolition job on Johnson and thought fuck that!
I really think Vitali would have won a rematch at that stage of Lennox's career. And I think virtually every non-biased watcher did.
Lennox may have lost because he was old and did not have the desire to dig deep and train hard again after all the things he had achieved. Therefore he made the right decision. That also does not mean Vitali had a greater legacy than him.
So so true masterclass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Why bother with a rematch..look what happened the first time when lewis wasnt even botherered.
Vitali had lewis in trouble and lewis had vitali in trouble.
Vitali is 8 years younger and would have had all the advantages in the rematch but it never happened because lewis ultimately had nothing to prove..
For everyone that wants to pull the Lennox Lewis "Look at the state of his face" defense :rolleyes: I might remind you all that Quarry got a rematch with Ali when their first fight was stopped by cuts. If Ali was a good enough sport to do it why not Lennox?
....because Lennox knew his time was up. Yeah Lennox could have gotten better prepared but so could Vitali because he was set to fight Cedric Boswell. Yeah we all hear about how Lewis was supposed to fight Kirk Johnson which was a LAUGHABLE match to begin with but Vitali wasn't training to fight Lennox but he jumped in and gave Lennox a run for his money and Lennox is lucky as hell that cut happened because he was GASSED. Anyone who looks at the fight objectively knows that.
*if Lennox wants to retire, more power too him... but stop saying u would've done this or that cuz u had the chance and didn't do it. hey, he rematched everyone else that beat him..and the Vitali fight was surely one that needed a re-match. if it would be such an easy fight, then why not do it?
*Ive seen Lennox on an interview, a one on one thing..and man, he's such an arrogant dk.
*Lets be very clear... Lennox caught Vitali... but Vitali HURT Lennox more than once. I think it's the second round where Lennox held and would've gone down had he not held.
*Lennox style is prettier, but Vitali fights like an old style Russan..not pretty but effective.
*does Lennox hit harder? that's debateable. Vitali hit Lennox as hard as I've seen any heavyweight get hit... maybe Lennox didn't go down, but he never fought again.
*OR, he met his match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I dont know what you want to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Its obvious vitali had lennox hurt in the fight and lewis had to dig deep but lets be clear that was the hardest fight vitali ever had.
Is it not fair to think that vitali at 8 years younger than lewis and with all lewis achievements it was the right move to call it a day.
I think its unfair to count out a much better, fitter version of lewis in a rematch to a version of vitali that would have fought exactly the same AND his greatest ever fight was against lewis.
I can clearly see that vitali was giving lewis some serious trouble and he was looking gassed but how many times in this great divison have you seen one shot change everything!
Lewis has never lost a decision and has never been beaten so badly the fight had to be stopped.
A heavyweight punch stopped lewis on two occasions in which he came back and rectified the situation in the rematch.
Why take a rematch with a guy 8 years younger than you that you already beat?
If vitali won, lewis would have rematched in a heartbeat but lewis done enough to achieve the result he wanted and i believe by the 5th round he probably decided in his mind that this was his last fight anyway with all the punishment they were both taking.
I think Lennox Lewis's legacy is still in tact either way. He is still my #1!
[QUOTE=imp;1202461]*But Lennox didn't BEAT Vitali, the fight was stopped on cuts... and Lennox was losing on points.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
[QUOTE=bigstinkybug;1202470]Sorry big stinky, my mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp*But Lennox didn't BEAT Vitali, the fight was stopped on cuts... and Lennox was losing on points.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
There i was thinking lewis punches had an effect on vitalis face.
In fact, any fight that has been stopped over the years it really doesnt count anymore.
Nobody knows exactly what would have happened if the fight continued, what we do know is that Vitali had a hatchet wound on his face caused by a punch, which completely warranted stopping the fight. If Vitali took a few more good shots on that eye he may have never fought again, just look at those cuts ffs.
Thats not good enough for some.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Vitali would have won if it wasnt for the lucky cuts...that seems to be there answer.
No that is good enough. He couldn't finish the fight like that, his health was in jeopardy and the stoppage was warranted.
It's what would have happened were he not cut.
The problem comes about because the cuts were NOT caused by "clean punching". It happens, it's boxing and unless it's completely blatant it's not called foul. But it definitely lends to interpretation.
Viewing the event as a whole, that needed to be a rematch!
What do you think a prime lennox lewis would do to Vitali? The elder Klit brother must thank his lucky stars he was not around when Ike, Holyfield and Lennox were at their best.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug*OR, he met his match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Ridiculous nonsenseQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat do you think a prime lennox lewis would do to Vitali? The elder Klit brother must thank his lucky stars he was not around when Ike, Holyfield and Lennox were at their best.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug*OR, he met his match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongRidiculous nonsenseQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhat do you think a prime lennox lewis would do to Vitali? The elder Klit brother must thank his lucky stars he was not around when Ike, Holyfield and Lennox were at their best.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug*OR, he met his match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Vitali did not beat an 8 year older lewis. Imagine an 8 year younger lewis.
Just be real and honest and accept it.
Aww C'mon man get real. Lennox was barely 80% ready for defending against his #1 contender on 10 days notice. How many world champs have you seen do that????Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Lewis TKO 6 Lennox kicked Vitali's ass Wlad hid in fear What reason was there for a rematch????
As for Kirk Johnson. I knew Kirk the whole time he was in Dallas. If that Kirk had got in the ring with Vitali he'd have had a good chance of beating him. But the overweight undertrained lethargic Kirk that faced Vitali was there purely for the paycheck. He did not even try
Bullshit! Vitali demolished Kirk Johnson like he was NOTHING! That's what prompted Lennox to retire. Nobody had ever done that to Johnson.
The next big thing had arrived, Vitali Klitschko. He had this controversial thing with Lewis, then went on to smash up 3 consecutive top contenders badly!
That Johnson fought well, he was just nothing compared to Vits.
your whole point cant be taken seriously because of your reference to brunoQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
bruno was a top class HW only losing to fighters many people rate in the top 10 HW of all time
the only 2 real off days were the second tyson fight where he was already suffering mentally and the bonecrusher smith fight where he had won 9 rounds out of 9 and then ran out of steam
even in the wytherspoon fight he was ahead by the time he was KOed, which was the 13th round, nowadays he could well have been champ
because of brunos light hearted approach and personality he is by far the most underrated fighter of all time, people dont seem to take him seriously
his biggest downfall was his stamina, if title fights were over 8 rounds he would have been a long standing HW champ and an all time great
lewis found that out the hard way
If boxing was 6 rounds Zab judah and Jermaine taylor would would be top 5 on everyones list.
When its all said and done.
Boxing is 12 rounds.
Thats what all boxers prepare for.
Lennox lewis against vitali in las vegas for the rematch with both fighters being in the shape of their lives would have been a superb fight!
Regardless of who would have won the rematch i honestly believe that even though vitali lost the fight he had with lewis, he can take alot of recognition and respect in saying he was the reason that lewis retired.
Lewis woke up after the fight and just thought he doesnt need to do this anymore. If he had just beat another heavyweight easy he would have continued...but being 8 years older and being hurt and tired at various points of the fight..he called it a day.
Cant be mad at lewis for that.
But vitali does deserve some kudos.
Vital I never looked sharper than he did immediately after the Lewis fight. Johnson, Sanders, Williams...not on Lennox's level but I think Old Lennox would have been beaten up.
Lennox is your GOAT? There's only 1 GOAT and his name is Joe Louis!
No there was someone even greater than Joe Louis and he is Muhammad Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I dont even think joe louis is even in my top 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ali
Johnson
Tyson
Lewis
Holmes
You know I'm surprised some Klitschko fanatic hasn't come up with the crazy idea Lennox used an old pro wrastlin trick to slice up Vitali's face. :rolleyes: You know the one where they hide a razor blade. LOL
Well they've come up with just about everything else:D
I think Lewis would have won again, he fought Vitali as a change of opponent when he was training for Johnson, fought him on even terms & was starting to take over
A full prepared Lewis stops Vitali in a quick return imo
The old TKO6 thing will never end!! haha =) Must have been an awesome event!
Anyway you guys above...
I have it Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis are together not fit enough to carry either of Vitali's or Lennox's jockstraps! LOL
To ancient, too small, no power, lacking in defence, never tested against the "dreadnought class" of opponents that Lenny and Vits were.
dreadnought class = Valuev :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Dont forget audleyQuote:
Originally Posted by Masterdreadnought class = Valuev :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Lennox is good friends with hulk hogan..you never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.Rock
Honestly, I think Ali would have a shot at UD'ing Valuev and Joe Louis even. But I think the sheer size of Sugar Nick will pose atleast some difficulty for the all American heroes :)Quote:
dreadnought class = Valuev
I would compare Lewis and Klits "opponents" to Ali and Louis's opponents.
I wonder if Kirk Johnson would sweat it over a fight with world class Henry Cooper? I wonder if David Haye would struggle to beat the elusive Sonny Liston? Or if the diminutive Michael Grant would have a panic attack at the sight of the hulking Joe Frazier! See what I mean!
Grant would piss his pants fighting Fraiser. Joe would not leave his chest and knock him out with a left hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power