Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko called out 34-11 guy (who has lost 2 of his last 3 fights, including a loss to an opponent who was 11-2 and 191 lbs)?

What would happen if the next world championship opponent earned his title fight by beating three bums (6-8, 13-4, 16-27)?

What would happen if Vitali Klitschko decided to call out a 37-30 opponent (bum) for his next world championship fight?

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko decided to stage a world championship against a 197 lbs boxer who had only 7 fights (of which only 2 had been real heavyweight fights 200×2)?

Or if Wladimir Klitschko decided to lose all his muscles, go all the way down to 197 lbs and then fight another 197 lbs opponent?

Or even go down to 185 lbs to stage a world championship against another 185 lbs (who never had and never will have a single real heavyweight fight 200×2)?

Exactly such opponents and circumstances HAPPENED and are USED AS A PROOF of the GREATNESS of past eras.

Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier all fought exactly such opponents in exactly such world championship fights.

Joe Louis vs Jim Braddock (197 lbs vs 197 lbs) (world heavyweight title 1937)
Joe Louis vs Tony Musto (37-30 whole career) (World heavyweight title 1941)
Joe Louis vs Billy Conn 174 lbs (Unification(!) world heavyweight title 1937)
Rocky Marciano 184 lbs vs Roland LaStarza 185 lbs (World heavyweight title 1953)
Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks 197 lbs, 7-0 at bout, 26-17 whole career (WBA+WBC world heavyweight title 1978)
Muhammad Ali vs George Chuvalo, 34-11 at bout, coming off a loss to a 11-2, 191 lbs guy (world heavyweight title 1966)
Joe Frazier vs Dave Zyglewicz, who earned his title fight by beating Pedro Sanchez (6-8), Bob Felstein (13-4), Willie Johnson (16-27) and Levi Forte (18-19) (world heavyweight title 1969) Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks (26-17) 197 lbs (WBA world heavyweight title 1978)
or Muhammad Ali vs ·Henry Cooper (40-14) 188 lbs (World Heavyweight title 1966)
Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver (41-18) 202 lbs (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs Ossie Ocasio (23-13) (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs David Bey (18-11) (IBF heavyweight title 1985)

The same fans and experts who declare that "Joe Louis still holds the record for most heavyweight championships won" (which includes world title opponents like mentioned above) have no problems to declare that the current heavyweight division (which excludes such title opponents like mentioned above) is weak.

The same fans who complain about a "dire Klitschko era" have no problem to declare Ali's era to be "The golden Age", yet half of Ali's opponents wouldn't be allowed nowadays or would be a proof of how Klitschko sucks.

The same experts who calculated that "Rocky Marciano is the heavyweight champ with the highest KO'ratio" would turn away from the TV sets if Klitschko's KO victims would be a median 190 lbs.

The same fans who mention that "Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champ who retired undefeated (49-0)" would be very upset if Wladimir Klitschko chose 40 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers (200 lbs and below) or chose 49 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers, former cruisers and bums (yes, that's Marciano's record in a nutshell).

The same fans who measure Wladimir Klitschko against previous oh-so-great champs would be appalled if Wladimir Klitschko actually fought opponents like those champs fought.

-and-

It's a no-brainer that Joe Louis can hold such records because included in his 26 title wins are opponents like Billy Conn 174 lbs and bums like Tony Musto (37-30).

Now I'm not here to bag the old timers because it makes me feel good, and I know at 32 years of age I'm only a young whipper snapper compared to some of you guys who have followed boxing for twice that time and who's fathers may have been involved with or fans of Louis or his contemporary's for example. But when some of you put on your rose coloured glasses and poke fun at my era and it's fighters by making ridiculous comparisons with your favourites that really don't stand up to scrutiny well then it's time to face the facts. Those records were padded to high hell, and only some of them stand up to scrutiny!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko called out 34-11 guy (who has lost 2 of his last 3 fights, including a loss to an opponent who was 11-2 and 191 lbs)?

What would happen if the next world championship opponent earned his title fight by beating three bums (6-8, 13-4, 16-27)?

What would happen if Vitali Klitschko decided to call out a 37-30 opponent (bum) for his next world championship fight?

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko decided to stage a world championship against a 197 lbs boxer who had only 7 fights (of which only 2 had been real heavyweight fights 200×2)?

Or if Wladimir Klitschko decided to lose all his muscles, go all the way down to 197 lbs and then fight another 197 lbs opponent?

Or even go down to 185 lbs to stage a world championship against another 185 lbs (who never had and never will have a single real heavyweight fight 200×2)?

Exactly such opponents and circumstances HAPPENED and are USED AS A PROOF of the GREATNESS of past eras.

Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier all fought exactly such opponents in exactly such world championship fights.

Joe Louis vs Jim Braddock (197 lbs vs 197 lbs) (world heavyweight title 1937)
Joe Louis vs Tony Musto (37-30 whole career) (World heavyweight title 1941)
Joe Louis vs Billy Conn 174 lbs (Unification(!) world heavyweight title 1937)
Rocky Marciano 184 lbs vs Roland LaStarza 185 lbs (World heavyweight title 1953)
Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks 197 lbs, 7-0 at bout, 26-17 whole career (WBA+WBC world heavyweight title 1978)
Muhammad Ali vs George Chuvalo, 34-11 at bout, coming off a loss to a 11-2, 191 lbs guy (world heavyweight title 1966)
Joe Frazier vs Dave Zyglewicz, who earned his title fight by beating Pedro Sanchez (6-8), Bob Felstein (13-4), Willie Johnson (16-27) and Levi Forte (18-19) (world heavyweight title 1969) Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks (26-17) 197 lbs (WBA world heavyweight title 1978)
or Muhammad Ali vs ·Henry Cooper (40-14) 188 lbs (World Heavyweight title 1966)
Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver (41-18) 202 lbs (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs Ossie Ocasio (23-13) (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs David Bey (18-11) (IBF heavyweight title 1985)

The same fans and experts who declare that "Joe Louis still holds the record for most heavyweight championships won" (which includes world title opponents like mentioned above) have no problems to declare that the current heavyweight division (which excludes such title opponents like mentioned above) is weak.

The same fans who complain about a "dire Klitschko era" have no problem to declare Ali's era to be "The golden Age", yet half of Ali's opponents wouldn't be allowed nowadays or would be a proof of how Klitschko sucks.

The same experts who calculated that "Rocky Marciano is the heavyweight champ with the highest KO'ratio" would turn away from the TV sets if Klitschko's KO victims would be a median 190 lbs.

The same fans who mention that "Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champ who retired undefeated (49-0)" would be very upset if Wladimir Klitschko chose 40 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers (200 lbs and below) or chose 49 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers, former cruisers and bums (yes, that's Marciano's record in a nutshell).

The same fans who measure Wladimir Klitschko against previous oh-so-great champs would be appalled if Wladimir Klitschko actually fought opponents like those champs fought.

-and-

It's a no-brainer that Joe Louis can hold such records because included in his 26 title wins are opponents like Billy Conn 174 lbs and bums like Tony Musto (37-30).

Now I'm not here to bag the old timers because it makes me feel good, and I know at 32 years of age I'm only a young whipper snapper compared to some of you guys who have followed boxing for twice that time and who's fathers may have been involved with or fans of Louis or his contemporary's for example. But when some of you put on your rose coloured glasses and poke fun at my era and it's fighters by making ridiculous comparisons with your favourites that really don't stand up to scrutiny well then it's time to face the facts. Those records were padded to high hell, and only some of them stand up to scrutiny!

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ahhhhhhhhh, now THAT fucking explains it...........:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

ahhhhhhhhh, now THAT fucking explains it...........:rolleyes:

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But it doesn't even.... I have pairs of socks that are smarter than this moron!

what would have happened if Joe Louis stood in the ring and cuddled his opponent for 12 rounds infront of thousands and thousands of people?

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Originally Posted by erics44

what would have happened if Joe Louis stood in the ring and cuddled his opponent for 12 rounds infront of thousands and thousands of people?

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Read in Russian accent:
Shut up, Father land soviet block embrace all who compete in 12 round cuddle :mad:.

why are you so insistent on this issue? most people have gotten past it. nobody is going to change their mind and you are starting to look more desperate and more ignorant. its only hurting your reputation.

What would happen if keyboard kids actually showed respect for prior eras and found something positive to say rather than obsessing with boarder line homoeroticism and a narrow fixation on the size of everything pertaining to half naked professional athletes :cwm13:

Joe Louis is the Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time end of argument

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

why are you so insistent on this issue? most people have gotten past it. nobody is going to change their mind and you are starting to look more desperate and more ignorant. its only hurting your reputation.

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What reputation?

Are you seriously suggesting that a man whose opponents were referred to as the "Bum of the Month Club" DID NOT fight solid opposition on a regular basis?

Basically the Great Joe Louis fought himself out of top tier challengers, so that is when he began giving 2nd and 3rd tier fighters a shot at the Title.
When Joe and other Champions of that era fought, the world knew and cared who the Champ was, the Heavyweight Championship was front page news. Nowadays, 99% of americans don't even know nor care who the Champ is, and mention the name Klitschko, you'll just get a puzzled expression just before the dumb@$$es ask if "Tyson's still in there?"

Almost every fighter had some defeats at one time.

Folks shouldn't use that term "bums" in regard to professional fighting men.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko called out 34-11 guy (who has lost 2 of his last 3 fights, including a loss to an opponent who was 11-2 and 191 lbs)?

What would happen if the next world championship opponent earned his title fight by beating three bums (6-8, 13-4, 16-27)?

What would happen if Vitali Klitschko decided to call out a 37-30 opponent (bum) for his next world championship fight?

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko decided to stage a world championship against a 197 lbs boxer who had only 7 fights (of which only 2 had been real heavyweight fights 200×2)?

Or if Wladimir Klitschko decided to lose all his muscles, go all the way down to 197 lbs and then fight another 197 lbs opponent?

Or even go down to 185 lbs to stage a world championship against another 185 lbs (who never had and never will have a single real heavyweight fight 200×2)?

Exactly such opponents and circumstances HAPPENED and are USED AS A PROOF of the GREATNESS of past eras.

Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier all fought exactly such opponents in exactly such world championship fights.

Joe Louis vs Jim Braddock (197 lbs vs 197 lbs) (world heavyweight title 1937)
Joe Louis vs Tony Musto (37-30 whole career) (World heavyweight title 1941)
Joe Louis vs Billy Conn 174 lbs (Unification(!) world heavyweight title 1937)
Rocky Marciano 184 lbs vs Roland LaStarza 185 lbs (World heavyweight title 1953)
Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks 197 lbs, 7-0 at bout, 26-17 whole career (WBA+WBC world heavyweight title 1978)
Muhammad Ali vs George Chuvalo, 34-11 at bout, coming off a loss to a 11-2, 191 lbs guy (world heavyweight title 1966)
Joe Frazier vs Dave Zyglewicz, who earned his title fight by beating Pedro Sanchez (6-8), Bob Felstein (13-4), Willie Johnson (16-27) and Levi Forte (18-19) (world heavyweight title 1969) Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks (26-17) 197 lbs (WBA world heavyweight title 1978)
or Muhammad Ali vs ·Henry Cooper (40-14) 188 lbs (World Heavyweight title 1966)
Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver (41-18) 202 lbs (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs Ossie Ocasio (23-13) (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs David Bey (18-11) (IBF heavyweight title 1985)

The same fans and experts who declare that "Joe Louis still holds the record for most heavyweight championships won" (which includes world title opponents like mentioned above) have no problems to declare that the current heavyweight division (which excludes such title opponents like mentioned above) is weak.

The same fans who complain about a "dire Klitschko era" have no problem to declare Ali's era to be "The golden Age", yet half of Ali's opponents wouldn't be allowed nowadays or would be a proof of how Klitschko sucks.

The same experts who calculated that "Rocky Marciano is the heavyweight champ with the highest KO'ratio" would turn away from the TV sets if Klitschko's KO victims would be a median 190 lbs.

The same fans who mention that "Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champ who retired undefeated (49-0)" would be very upset if Wladimir Klitschko chose 40 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers (200 lbs and below) or chose 49 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers, former cruisers and bums (yes, that's Marciano's record in a nutshell).

The same fans who measure Wladimir Klitschko against previous oh-so-great champs would be appalled if Wladimir Klitschko actually fought opponents like those champs fought.

-and-

It's a no-brainer that Joe Louis can hold such records because included in his 26 title wins are opponents like Billy Conn 174 lbs and bums like Tony Musto (37-30).

Now I'm not here to bag the old timers because it makes me feel good, and I know at 32 years of age I'm only a young whipper snapper compared to some of you guys who have followed boxing for twice that time and who's fathers may have been involved with or fans of Louis or his contemporary's for example. But when some of you put on your rose coloured glasses and poke fun at my era and it's fighters by making ridiculous comparisons with your favourites that really don't stand up to scrutiny well then it's time to face the facts. Those records were padded to high hell, and only some of them stand up to scrutiny!

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25 defences says he has the best record , best HW of all time no , not for me , but Joe was class in and out of the ring , and he didn't dodge the draft unlike Clay , so he has my respect.

I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.

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hahaha. hahaha. ha-fucking-haha-

Max Power's Heavyweight title championship Top 10 list

With Title wins and KO's listed.

Excluding BUMS and Cruiserweights and 2nd and 3rd tier champs!

1. Wladimir Klitschko - 17 (15 KOs)
2. Lennox Lewis - 15 (10 KOs)
3. Vitali Klitschko - 14 (11 KOs)
4. Larry Holmes - 13 (7 KOs)
5. Muhammad Ali - 13 (6 KOs)
6. Mike Tyson - 9 (8 KOs)
7. Evander Holyfield - 9 (3 KOs)
8. Joe Louis - 7 (4 KOs)
9. Nicolay Valuev - 6 (3 KOs)
10. Chris Byrd - 5 (1 KO)

This represents a fair comparison and even looks like it makes sense.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8...nbombermw2.jpg

25 Heavyweight Title Defenses.
Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World.
12 year reign.
The Great Joe Louis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3PpR12yaRs

^ Best to watch that clip in full screen, so click settings wheel and change quality to 720p HD to watch Joe in all his destructive glory.

fucking bone-breaking bone-shattering power. that is power in its purest form. the guy just gyrates the power from his torso. it is fucking frightening.

as for certain unnamed numbskulls, this will not be an indication of how The Bomber would annihilate the clitoris 1 and 2.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Max Power's Heavyweight title championship Top 10 list

With Title wins and KO's listed.

Excluding BUMS and Cruiserweights and 2nd and 3rd tier champs!

1. Wladimir Klitschko - 17 (15 KOs)
2. Lennox Lewis - 15 (10 KOs)
3. Vitali Klitschko - 14 (11 KOs)
4. Larry Holmes - 13 (7 KOs)
5. Muhammad Ali - 13 (6 KOs)
6. Mike Tyson - 9 (8 KOs)
7. Evander Holyfield - 9 (3 KOs)
8. Joe Louis - 7 (4 KOs)
9. Nicolay Valuev - 6 (3 KOs)
10. Chris Byrd - 5 (1 KO)

This represents a fair comparison and even looks like it makes sense.

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absolute dog shit ranking there. imagine a 32 year old nit wit ranking Chris Byrd and Nicolay Valuev ahead of Rocky Marciano, for just 1 example. Wladimir, Byrd and Valuev is just the proof of the pudding that you have absolutely no sense, no clue about this subject. YOu have the right to your own opinion, but so do I, and you have no clue.

I'm just wondering how the hell he came up with 6 for Valuev:D

if we are excluding bums then i say that wlad's record is 2-0 (1 KO). byrd is the only non bum that he has beaten and that is mainly because of styles.

Byrd KOd Jimmy Thunder! A crude opponent but one that would knock Marciano out real fast. Marciano couldn't carry Byrd's jockstrap. Fact!

And Valuev! Ha. As IF Marciano could beat Valuev! Look at them!

Anyway this is not a h2h ranking, we can compare that another time. This is a record of HW title fights, an indication of "greatness" you might say. Of course cutting out all the old time nutbaggery to give a more accurate assessment!

Jimmy Thunder. For the fuck of fucks sake :vd:

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Jimmy Thunder. For the fuck of fucks sake :vd:

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Lol

Max, Fenster proved to you that Lewis was a better champion that Wlad and yet you have him at the top.

You have also missed Haye who you rate higher than Louis. ;)

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Jimmy Thunder. For the fuck of fucks sake :vd:

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Lol

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Ha! Double lol.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.

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Didn't you once say that Joe Lewis never fought a fighter as good as David Haye? And Muhammad Ali would only beat Mariusz Wach on points?

Ok let's take a step back, this is not a "h2h" ranking necessarily. This is purely a record of their performance in title fights unpadded. The positioning is not representative necessarily of who was better than who per se.

i.e. Wladimir will edge Lennox out in most statistics because he does have a slightly higher KO ratio and he has half again as many fights, of course. I ranked purely by the numbers.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Jimmy Thunder. For the fuck of fucks sake :vd:

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Lol

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Ha! Double lol.

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Ha! Ha! Triple lol.

attention MODS: Special Request please @Saddo

can we do a two-for-one swap where we get 2 new members from RabbitPunchBoxing.com and send Max Power over to them? :clap::rotflmao::feedme:

Oh real funny!

The list is compiled purely by math by the system I outlined (records unpadded with sub200+ fighters, guys who have lost more than a quarter of their fights (=bum).

Can you think of a better system for fair comparison?

Because if you want to look at total records as you would want to to promote your favourites that's fine... BUT you must THEN also consider the CW division as part of the HW division when comparing the records of past warriors to present ones. It then becomes apparent that guys like David Haye have a very good record.


And you MUST delete bums because if you don't then Sonny Liston, LaMar Clarke and Eric Esch Butterbean are the GOAT's!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Oh real funny!

The list is compiled purely by math by the system I outlined (records unpadded with sub200+ fighters, guys who have lost more than a quarter of their fights (=bum).

Can you think of a better system for fair comparison?

Because if you want to look at total records as you would want to to promote your favourites that's fine... BUT you must THEN also consider the CW division as part of the HW division when comparing the records of past warriors to present ones. It then becomes apparent that guys like David Haye have a very good record.


And you MUST delete bums because if you don't then Sonny Liston, LaMar Clarke and Eric Esch Butterbean are the GOAT's!

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Your 14 years old right?

Ring historian Gilbert Odd wrote, (The Great Champions, p 40),

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"Louis jab would snap a man's head back with sickening monotony until he wavered under the steady punishment, then he was speedily finished off with swift and accurate hooks from both hands, or a finely timed right cross that carried such knockdown force that few who took it could survive. Louis was ice cold in action, rarely wasted a punch and had an uncanny way of anticipating and avoiding a blow by the merest move of the head."

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Nat Fleischer writing in the April 1939 Ring Magazine said,

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"He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests."

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Jimmy Braddock commenting on Louis power said, (McCallum, 46),

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"Nobody hits like Louis. A punch is a punch. But that Louis. Take the first jab he nails you. You know what it's like? It's like someone jammed a electric bulb in your face and busted it." When asked about his right hand, he said, "It ain't like a punch. It's like someone nailed you with a crowbar. I thought half my head was blowed off. I figured he caved it in. After he hit me I couldnt even feel if it was there."

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Eddie Futch, who knew Joe Louis and trained with him at Brewster's gym, described Louis power (Anderson pp.231-232),

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"Joe's punches could paralyze you...Anywhere he hit you, you'd feel it. Even if he didn't hit you much, just blocking those shots was like being in an automobile accident."

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Emmanuel Steward after studying film of Louis-Schemling 2 concurred about Louis paralyzing power, making the following observation, (Pacheco, 45),

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"Louis body punches were unbelievable. After Max had been immobolized by a right to the kidney, he took a left hook to the solar plexus which paralyzed him. Even though Max was hurt and wanted to fall down, he couldn't even fall."

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Ray Arcel, one of the greatest trainers in history who trained champions such as Barney Ross, Tony Zale, Roberto Duran, and Larry Holmes, also worked against Louis in 14 of his fights said (Anderson p. 120),

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"Louis once drove Paulino Uzcudin's teeth right through his mouthpiece!" That's how hard Joe Louis could hit!

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But WTF do these guys know?

They do know what they were talking about. Louis hit hard, Louis is a champion, he was a heavyweight champion of the world for years. That much is a NO-BRAINER!

None of these guys in any of your quotes claim Joe "Hit harder than Lennox Lewis" or "Could have beaten up Ali" or "Deserves to be rated higher than Wladimir Klitschko because he beat up Max Schmelling".

Facts are facts, they are just so. Even if your quotes contained something at all to refute my arguments... It's heresay! And it would warrant looking into their comments for validity. Not taking such things as gospel.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Not taking such things as gospel.

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Do you think the Gospel is truth, son, why or why not?

Just to much. Have a nice thread.http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/...ld_outhere.gif

going back to your original argument, the problem with basing things off of records is that boxing was a lot different back then in the aspect of making fights. most fighters were thrown to the wolves at the beginning of their boxing career. most people didnt have much of an amatuer background and learned as they fought and lost a lot because of that. now, people are always padding their record, a thing that didnt really exist back in the day other than maybe a few people who fought exclusively in their own country.

also, if we are just saying who hits hard, then just compare to damage being done. look at what the small dempsey did to willard who was way bigger than him. willard had more bones broken and was in far worse shape than anybody that the klits have beaten. as was quoted before, louis knocked peoples teeth through their mouthpiece. marciano had his power recorded and was seen that it had more energy than an armor piercing bullet and enough energy to amount to lifting 1000 pounds a foot off the ground. so all i have to say that if someone like haye could do something like that then im sure we would hear about it but we dont because he cant. plus, HWs used smaller gloves back then which means that they got used to withstanding punches better.

You started making sense at the start but then you trailed off into delusion again.

At the end of the day there's no way physically possible Rocky Marciano could hit as hard as David Haye. The reason you don't here about that stuff now is because nobody would care about such things now. There's no point in being able to hit a pressure pad hard if you can't land it. Having said that though nobody would lay a dime on Marciano were they to both perform that test together to get a higher reading.

If you put David in against Marciano's or Louis's run of opponents, ALL of them, he would knock every single one of them out. Every one! And Wladimir and Vitali would too.

We're never gonna agree on this and I've stopped making such threads now so we can just leave it if you like.

im not really sure how i trailed off into delusion with my facts...but whatever.

i just make points here and there on your threads when i have time. sometimes i dont really care to comment and sometimes i will. i dont think you are a bad poster because i have seen you post about other stuff that is about current boxing and you seem fine. you just have the idea in your head that training has come so far that todays boxers are just better. i know that you know that almost all people with boxing knowledge dont believe that so its up to you to believe what you want.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

You started making sense at the start but then you trailed off into delusion again.

At the end of the day there's no way physically possible Rocky Marciano could hit as hard as David Haye. The reason you don't here about that stuff now is because nobody would care about such things now. There's no point in being able to hit a pressure pad hard if you can't land it. Having said that though nobody would lay a dime on Marciano were they to both perform that test together to get a higher reading.

If you put David in against Marciano's or Louis's run of opponents, ALL of them, he would knock every single one of them out. Every one! And Wladimir and Vitali would too.

We're never gonna agree on this and I've stopped making such threads now so we can just leave it if you like.

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Mate even Audley got up from David Hayes punches, don't overstate his power just because it appears to be his leading attribute in an age where everything is analysed to death

What good does power do you if you are not fully confident with it, sell out to use it, or for that matter even show up to the arena in the first place. Do you honestly think Marciano would have the mental cartwheels and doubts Haye has shown?! Marciano would climb out of his coffin and jump from the hearse before he would give.