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In defense of Maidana/PBF
People have already written this fight off and accused Mayweather of being a pussy for choosing Maidana (which is the same thing people said when Broner chose to fight Maidana, so how Maidana became known as a pushover is beyond me).
Like everyone else, I would rather PBF/Bradley or PBF/Pac. But with them out of the picture, who else is there? Everyone else at WW is either underdeveloped with no name value yet, or guys that Floyd has already beat handily.
Then people say "well why doesn't he fight a 154lber?" Well, which 154lb guy would you want him to fight? Lara? He's a good fighter but he has no name value. Molina? Mundine? Ishe Smith? Bundrage? Martiroysan? Kirkland? Who of those guys has the momentum and name value to warrant a PBF megafight? 154 is a largely ignored division, lost in between WW and MW. Floyd has already beat the only two names at 154 (Cotto and Canelo).
Then there are the people who say he should have picked Khan. Why? On the grounds that Khan beat Maidana (VERY narrowly) 4 years ago? Who gives a fuck? Since when do you earn shit now based on what you did 4 years ago? Boxing is a "what have you done lately" sport: Maidana has racked up a solid win streak at WW and is coming off a huge upset over one of boxing's most promising prospects. Khan is coming off a shit performance against Diaz where he BARELY won against a subpar opponent, and Khan has never even fought at WW before. I agree that Khan's style makes an interesting challenge for Mayweather, but it just doesn't make sense to make that fight.
I think Maidana is interesting for a number of reasons. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to make it interesting.
Maidana is very unorthodox in his punching and throws bombs from crazy angles. He's also very tricky and resourceful with his power punching: he's very good at getting his fists on his opponents chin and body from any range or angle. I think he has the ability to get Floyd out of his comfort zone and make this a fight.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
I should clarify that I don't actually hate the fight, I was just arguing the point that really Maidana hasn't actually done more than Khan (other than fighting at Welterweight and having a belt as a bargaining chip) to warrant the fight more than Khan. Really Floyd could have gone either way with that choice and people would have been unhappy. In truth, discounting Top Rank/HBO fighters there were only 2 other interesting options than what he presented. Those 2 are Danny Garcia or a step up to Middleweight and fight Quillin as he's Golden Boy and they could try and sell his lack of name value in that Floyd was winning at another weightclass. Really I'm just happy we get to see the best fighter of our generation in the ring 4 more times because he might be a dick but watching him box is fucking artwork and it doesn't matter who he picks, he is going to win.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
the main point i dissagree with is that maidana will make it interesting
there is a slight posibility of that, there is a much more likely posibility that he wont land a punch
IMO khan would have been a lot more interesting
another point i dissagree with is that people thought maidana would be a push over for broner, its possible that they did, i didnt read it anywhere that they did and i definately didnt, i didnt bet on maidana because i thought it would go the distance and he would be robbed
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
^^^agreed, I don't hate the fight either and I always believe Maidana would beat Broner.
But I don't think Maidana will stand a chance against PBF. He seems Taylor made for Floyd and I'm also a bit disappointed because I generally believe Khan is a tougher fight because Amir has attributes that could trouble Floyd.
I mean khan is probably faster than him or at the very least on par and that could play a factor.
Look what happened with Cotto, I see this fight maybe being similar.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
It took Maidana 10 rounds to land on Khan. He went 50-50 with an ancient bloated Morales. Got totally schooled by Alexander.
He qualified for this fight because he "proved" himself at 147 by beating Adrien Broner, whose only win at 147 is Paulie Malignaggi, which he scraped through.
I love Maidana but this is a shit mismatch. He wont land a punch. Round one to twelve rinse and repeat.
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Should be fighting bradley.
Lets not forget maidana ko ratio and a hes a much better fighter under garcia.
Im not happy with the choice either but i dont think khan deserves it yet.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
It took Maidana 10 rounds to land on Khan. He went 50-50 with an ancient bloated Morales. Got totally schooled by Alexander.
He qualified for this fight because he "proved" himself at 147 by beating Adrien Broner, whose only win at 147 is Paulie Malignaggi, which he scraped through.
I love Maidana but this is a shit mismatch. He wont land a punch. Round one to twelve rinse and repeat.
he didnt really get schooled by alexander, alexanders hit and holding was hurrendous. should have been DQ'd
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Khan didn't "deserve" it (lol, as if that means anything in boxing) but at least he offered something different for Floyd stylewise, and Khan doesn't know how to do dull fights, he'd have even made a Floyd fight entertaining.
Maidana is a heavy puncher but who exactly has he knocked out? He couldn't even finish "shitty undeserving" Khan or Broner when he hurt them?
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
I don't think anyone believes Maidana is a push over. Floyds is likely a bad match up for him that's all.
Hes tough as shit and hes earned the spot hes in.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
the fact the fight is at LMW just makes it more in floyds favour
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
It's at welterweight.
Even Roger Mayweather said he thought they were fighting Khan but Maidana is even easier.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
the fact its at welterweight just means its not at light middleweight
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
What kind of name value does Maidana have? He's not some famous boxing star. He doesn't do huge ratings on TV. He has never even been an A-side of a fight. Remember when Maidana fought Ortiz, Khan, Broner etc., he was the B-side. So, why is Maidana a less-than-optimal opponent? Because there were better opponents out there for Mayweather above 147 and because we've seen Mayweather beat crude sluggers over and over again. Why should Mayweather move up? Because he's the best by far of the available challengers at 147 and he calls himself TBE -- so prove it. This is a waste of a fight on his legacy. It falls in the group of his sub-par defenses, a group that includes Guerrero, Ortiz, and Baldomir, among others. Let's just say this, the Canelo-Mayweather line opened up at 2-1 (closed higher for Mayweather), this fight's line opnened up at 14-1. That's all that really needs to be said. It's shite, gentlemen. Sorry, but it is.
They better stack the undercard because on its own, this fight doesn't do anything for me.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
The bookmakers are unanimous in rating Madiana a bigger underdog than Khan was.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
The bookmakers are unanimous in rating Madiana a bigger underdog than Khan was.
Rightly so because he is.
Was really looking forward to Khan v Mayweather , hope it gets sorted for Sept .. meanwhile we get this re run of Floyds last 2 fights.
I honestly,hand on heart dont see Maidana winning a round
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
People have already written this fight off and accused Mayweather of being a pussy for choosing Maidana (which is the same thing people said when Broner chose to fight Maidana, so how Maidana became known as a pushover is beyond me).
Like everyone else, I would rather PBF/Bradley or PBF/Pac. But with them out of the picture, who else is there? Everyone else at WW is either underdeveloped with no name value yet, or guys that Floyd has already beat handily.
Then people say "well why doesn't he fight a 154lber?" Well, which 154lb guy would you want him to fight? Lara? He's a good fighter but he has no name value. Molina? Mundine? Ishe Smith? Bundrage? Martiroysan? Kirkland? Who of those guys has the momentum and name value to warrant a PBF megafight? 154 is a largely ignored division, lost in between WW and MW. Floyd has already beat the only two names at 154 (Cotto and Canelo).
Then there are the people who say he should have picked Khan. Why? On the grounds that Khan beat Maidana (VERY narrowly) 4 years ago? Who gives a fuck? Since when do you earn shit now based on what you did 4 years ago? Boxing is a "what have you done lately" sport: Maidana has racked up a solid win streak at WW and is coming off a huge upset over one of boxing's most promising prospects. Khan is coming off a shit performance against Diaz where he BARELY won against a subpar opponent, and Khan has never even fought at WW before. I agree that Khan's style makes an interesting challenge for Mayweather, but it just doesn't make sense to make that fight.
I think Maidana is interesting for a number of reasons. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to make it interesting.
Maidana is very unorthodox in his punching and throws bombs from crazy angles. He's also very tricky and resourceful with his power punching: he's very good at getting his fists on his opponents chin and body from any range or angle. I think he has the ability to get Floyd out of his comfort zone and make this a fight.
well said!!! i dunno why everyone disses maidana either. its bullshit. this guy is a warrior. and in my opinion, he did beat khan, battered him all over the ring!!! maidana is all about weird angles so he does have a chance. and he can hit hard!!! im american, but i want maidana to win!!! not sure he will, but here's to hoping, and i know at least he'll try like a MF!!! unlike many chumps just out to get a payday.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
#1FightFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
People have already written this fight off and accused Mayweather of being a pussy for choosing Maidana (which is the same thing people said when Broner chose to fight Maidana, so how Maidana became known as a pushover is beyond me).
Like everyone else, I would rather PBF/Bradley or PBF/Pac. But with them out of the picture, who else is there? Everyone else at WW is either underdeveloped with no name value yet, or guys that Floyd has already beat handily.
Then people say "well why doesn't he fight a 154lber?" Well, which 154lb guy would you want him to fight? Lara? He's a good fighter but he has no name value. Molina? Mundine? Ishe Smith? Bundrage? Martiroysan? Kirkland? Who of those guys has the momentum and name value to warrant a PBF megafight? 154 is a largely ignored division, lost in between WW and MW. Floyd has already beat the only two names at 154 (Cotto and Canelo).
Then there are the people who say he should have picked Khan. Why? On the grounds that Khan beat Maidana (VERY narrowly) 4 years ago? Who gives a fuck? Since when do you earn shit now based on what you did 4 years ago? Boxing is a "what have you done lately" sport: Maidana has racked up a solid win streak at WW and is coming off a huge upset over one of boxing's most promising prospects. Khan is coming off a shit performance against Diaz where he BARELY won against a subpar opponent, and Khan has never even fought at WW before. I agree that Khan's style makes an interesting challenge for Mayweather, but it just doesn't make sense to make that fight.
I think Maidana is interesting for a number of reasons. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to make it interesting.
Maidana is very unorthodox in his punching and throws bombs from crazy angles. He's also very tricky and resourceful with his power punching: he's very good at getting his fists on his opponents chin and body from any range or angle. I think he has the ability to get Floyd out of his comfort zone and make this a fight.
well said!!! i dunno why everyone disses maidana either. its bullshit. this guy is a warrior. and in my opinion, he did beat khan, battered him all over the ring!!! maidana is all about weird angles so he does have a chance. and he can hit hard!!! im american, but i want maidana to win!!! not sure he will, but here's to hoping, and i know at least he'll try like a MF!!! unlike many chumps just out to get a payday.
Have actually you seen the Khan v Maidana fight or just the youtube highlights?
The one where Khan floored him early and pretty much schooled him every tround until he got caught in the 10th and did very well to survive but then still fired back in the 11th and 12th.
The fact is Khan beat him fair and square and pretty comprehensively in the boxing worlds eyes and unanimously in the 3 judges eyes :)
One of my favourite fights in the last 5 years.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
It took Maidana 10 rounds to land on Khan. He went 50-50 with an ancient bloated Morales. Got totally schooled by Alexander.
He qualified for this fight because he "proved" himself at 147 by beating Adrien Broner, whose only win at 147 is Paulie Malignaggi, which he scraped through.
I love Maidana but this is a shit mismatch. He wont land a punch. Round one to twelve rinse and repeat.
Exactly how I see it. Don't know why or how people can see this as anyway competitive. Perhaps people believed in Broners hype and that his style is similar to Floyd's? They are completely different. Floyd will make Maidana look stupid just like he did against Canelo. Do people not understand that to have some sort of a chance against Floyd u need some sort of speed. 120-108 on all cards is my prediction.
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If prefer khan v Maidana 2 then either v Floyd
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
People have already written this fight off and accused Mayweather of being a pussy for choosing Maidana (which is the same thing people said when Broner chose to fight Maidana, so how Maidana became known as a pushover is beyond me).
Like everyone else, I would rather PBF/Bradley or PBF/Pac. But with them out of the picture, who else is there? Everyone else at WW is either underdeveloped with no name value yet, or guys that Floyd has already beat handily.
Then people say "well why doesn't he fight a 154lber?" Well, which 154lb guy would you want him to fight? Lara? He's a good fighter but he has no name value. Molina? Mundine? Ishe Smith? Bundrage? Martiroysan? Kirkland? Who of those guys has the momentum and name value to warrant a PBF megafight? 154 is a largely ignored division, lost in between WW and MW. Floyd has already beat the only two names at 154 (Cotto and Canelo).
Then there are the people who say he should have picked Khan. Why? On the grounds that Khan beat Maidana (VERY narrowly) 4 years ago? Who gives a fuck? Since when do you earn shit now based on what you did 4 years ago? Boxing is a "what have you done lately" sport: Maidana has racked up a solid win streak at WW and is coming off a huge upset over one of boxing's most promising prospects. Khan is coming off a shit performance against Diaz where he BARELY won against a subpar opponent, and Khan has never even fought at WW before. I agree that Khan's style makes an interesting challenge for Mayweather, but it just doesn't make sense to make that fight.
I think Maidana is interesting for a number of reasons. I don't expect him to win, but I do expect him to make it interesting.
Maidana is very unorthodox in his punching and throws bombs from crazy angles. He's also very tricky and resourceful with his power punching: he's very good at getting his fists on his opponents chin and body from any range or angle. I think he has the ability to get Floyd out of his comfort zone and make this a fight.
Solid, solid post. Guilty as charged. I also thought Broner would carve Maidana up. Right away when a guy see's Maidana vs Floyd on the docket he thinks oh great more of the same. Floyd gets 40 million dollars to fight a style perfectly suited for his. We've all become a bunch of chronic complainers. No matter what the fight these days it seems one or the other combatants are dismissed
as not worthy for one reason or the other. Its silly to think that either man is "not worthy" on a fundamental pugilistic level. All of those we talk about daily here and at other places along with those we routinely dismiss are all elite fighters at this level. I think sometimes we all forget that from the comforts of our offices and living rooms.
Ftr I thought and still do believe that Khan is a tougher fight technically then Maidana but that's contingent on getting through the first six w/o a vapour lock and extending it if possible over twelve.
Conversely Maidana is far more dangerous over the first six because he has no shot at solving the Mayvinci code and he knows it. Mayweather does not like fast starts and there is another aspect of this under the radar and that's Mayweathers feelings about Broner. He actually does kind of view him as his little brother. I think there is some emotional investment in this fight for Floyd and that could actually present itself with a mistake. A mistake that gets him caught and in trouble at some point.
I'm actually looking forward to this.
@erics44. Its at 147 and not 154. Its actually a unification fight because the WBC never stripped Floyd as they said they would. They know where their supper hangs.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
I do not want to watch Floyd fight anyone at welterweight as he beats them all. I want to see him challenged and that can only be a middleweight.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
It took Maidana 10 rounds to land on Khan. He went 50-50 with an ancient bloated Morales. Got totally schooled by Alexander.
He qualified for this fight because he "proved" himself at 147 by beating Adrien Broner, whose only win at 147 is Paulie Malignaggi, which he scraped through.
I love Maidana but this is a shit mismatch. He wont land a punch. Round one to twelve rinse and repeat.
I don't disagree with any of this. BUT...if we are simply talking about who deserved this fight more between Khan or Maidana.....clearly Maidana. Marcos is on a 4 fight win streak (most by KO/TKO) and just beat one of boxing rising stars. He has improved compared to a few years ago and a lot of fans like his style of aggression. No question Floyd is a huge favorite...but Maidana is a live body with momentum (not to mention will have the backing of Latino fans during a Cinco de Mayo fight). While Floyd should win with relative ease...i aint going to piss on Maidana. Dude is not some bum.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
The only reason Maidana is in his mouth is for the Broner win, nothing more. But I don't call him a pussy just as anyone calling Broner a pussy for taking Maidana were talking out the arse. Anyone not drinking the Kool aid saw Broners holes and how he was willing to absorb. The kid wants to be a reality tv star as much as a skilled boxer and he got his ass handed to him by a seasoned hardened professional who didn't buy the sales pitch. It's not a match substance or super stardom but really Floyd's opportunity to meet a quota. I have zero doubt Maidana is going to attempt to remove Floyd's head and kick it around the ring smiling but this isn't some rush job of a pretender who short cutted his way to the big stage with no answers for the tough questions.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
another point i dissagree with is that people thought maidana would be a push over for broner, its possible that they did, i didnt read it anywhere that they did and i definately didnt, i didnt bet on maidana because i thought it would go the distance and he would be robbed
Well let me quote from the original thread I replied to many months ago (the context of the thread was that Broner/Maidana was taken off PPV, and people were agreeing with the decision). You replied to this thread so you must have seen them.
I'm not that interested in Broner-Maidana. With all the big fights GB has around that weight for Broner, it seems like they are feeding Maidana too him.
Me neither.. this is a gimmie fight for broner really and gbp changing this to a non ppv event kind of shows that. They figured people arent going to pay for this mismatch so they backtracked.Broner-maidana is a Boxing after Dark level fight.. Easy fight for broner..
Maidana should be tailor made for broner but honestly if gavin rees can tag ya so can maidana, so hopefully broner doesn't tighten up his defense and eats one he doesn't seem comin but don't see it happenin.
Maidana is a tough dude, but styles make fights. Maidana is a mauler who leaves himself open. In my opinion, this is a fight to make Broner look good after the sour taste left in people's mouths from his last fight. I think they'll stay away from boxers for a while with Broner. As far as outcomes, I could see something comparable to Alexander - Urango
this kinda reminds me of mayweater v gatti. i think that might be what golden boy sees as well. but broner ain't floyd and marcos ain't arturo... hopefully it ends differently.
(Maidana) is so slow and robotic. Hes a tough guy but dont see him lasting past 7 or 8
Broners going to look good here imo, could even be a DeMarco type showing. He's not going to have to look for Maidana, he'll be able to get set and let his hands go to the body. The guy reminds me vaguely of Canelo as much as anyone else in truth, maybe I'm nuts there but he's not great on his feet and needs to plant them to get off, kind of punches in a shell etc. Still don't see Maidana winning this though, Broner can hurt him and will tee off.
Maidana's Achilles Heel is well-known, he's susceptible to speed and body punches. Broner will target the body early in the fight with his speed and stop Maidana. Boxers can beat Broner, but Maidana isn't a boxer. That's why this fight wasn't worth PPV.
And some from some different threads pre-fight…
"If ever there was a fighter tailor made for Broners style it is Maidana. I'm not sure the guy can even move laterally. Its going to appear that you are watching a fight split screen because the speed difference will be that obvious. His style feeds Broners. Look for a white object to be thrown in late and a defeated Maidana sitting on his stool looking like a human pincushion. Paulie and Rees gave Broner more trouble then Maidana will"
"I don't think he'll have any serious problems with Maidana, but almost anything can happen in the ring so I'll keep hoping he has some humility beat into his ass."
"Broner picks him apart."
"Great card. Maidana Broner will most likely be very 1 sided but Karas Thurman should be a war..."
"Broner wins by KO in 1st half. I love Maidana but he is tailor made for Broner"
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
What kind of name value does Maidana have? He's not some famous boxing star. He doesn't do huge ratings on TV. He has never even been an A-side of a fight. Remember when Maidana fought Ortiz, Khan, Broner etc., he was the B-side. So, why is Maidana a less-than-optimal opponent? Because there were better opponents out there for Mayweather above 147 and because we've seen Mayweather beat crude sluggers over and over again. Why should Mayweather move up? Because he's the best by far of the available challengers at 147 and he calls himself TBE -- so prove it. This is a waste of a fight on his legacy. It falls in the group of his sub-par defenses, a group that includes Guerrero, Ortiz, and Baldomir, among others. Let's just say this, the Canelo-Mayweather line opened up at 2-1 (closed higher for Mayweather), this fight's line opnened up at 14-1. That's all that really needs to be said. It's shite, gentlemen. Sorry, but it is.
Maidana has a lot of heat from upsetting Broner. Regardless of what you think of Adrien (you predicted a complete domination by Broner), that was a huge upset that got a lot of publicity, particularly on social media. Is he the B-side to Floyd Mayweather? Of course he is. But he has a lot of momentum and name value off of that win.
You say Floyd should move up: ok, answer my initial question - who should he have fought at 154?
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Perhaps people believed in Broners hype and that his style is similar to Floyd's?
Yeah apparently people did.
"LOL, the main thing here is he was fighting Paulie. No need to defend yourself everytime he hits you its like a pillow hitting your face. (context: You said that in defense or Broner's lack of defense in the Paulie fight) (Maidana) is so slow and robotic. Hes a tough guy but dont see him lasting past 7 or 8.
Just for the record I would be delighted to eat crow here. I hope you guys are right because I love Maidana and hate Broner. But I think his style suits Broner perfectly."
-Silkeyjoe
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
What kind of name value does Maidana have? He's not some famous boxing star. He doesn't do huge ratings on TV. He has never even been an A-side of a fight. Remember when Maidana fought Ortiz, Khan, Broner etc., he was the B-side. So, why is Maidana a less-than-optimal opponent? Because there were better opponents out there for Mayweather above 147 and because we've seen Mayweather beat crude sluggers over and over again. Why should Mayweather move up? Because he's the best by far of the available challengers at 147 and he calls himself TBE -- so prove it. This is a waste of a fight on his legacy. It falls in the group of his sub-par defenses, a group that includes Guerrero, Ortiz, and Baldomir, among others. Let's just say this, the Canelo-Mayweather line opened up at 2-1 (closed higher for Mayweather), this fight's line opnened up at 14-1. That's all that really needs to be said. It's shite, gentlemen. Sorry, but it is.
Maidana has a lot of heat from upsetting Broner. Regardless of what you think of Adrien (you predicted a complete domination by Broner), that was a huge upset that got a lot of publicity, particularly on social media. Is he the B-side to Floyd Mayweather? Of course he is. But he has a lot of momentum and name value off of that win.
You say Floyd should move up: ok, answer my initial question - who should he have fought at 154?
Anyone who fights Floyd is a B-side.
We've agreed and disagreed on too many boxing topics over the years @Beanflicker to think that I wouldn't completely eat crow for my Maidana-Broner. I was wrong then and I'm sure I admitted as much, if I didn't my apologies. In retrospect, I'm an idiot because I should have seen the signs that Broner was overrated. At the time, I thought they were keeping Broner away from boxers after seeing how Paulie and Rees (for three rounds) did against Broner and picked Maidana for a reason. In any event, it was a great win for Maidana, but that doesn't mean he can win a round against Floyd.
Lara (coming off a complete dismantling of Trout), Kirkland (career is resurrected by reuniting with Wolfe and great win over Tapia), Trout (loss to Lara and Canelo but a southpaw, tall, and decent speed), the better Charlo brother, Andrade (former Olympian, has a belt, beat Vanes), even Molina (tough style, draws against Lara, beat Kirkland really, and beat Floyd's guy Ishe), even go for glory and fight Kid Choc for a middleweight strap. I'm not suggesting these guys beat Mayweather, but they're tougher challenges than Maidana at 14-1, they're not with Top Rank, and there are story lines they could gin up for the fight.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Hah, no need to hang people out for picking Broner in that one, I think most thought he'd win, and it doesn't mean they were buying the hype. Maidanas only true test at WW before that was in losing every round to Alexander, and he'd been in some real trouble against Lopez the fight before as well. Whether he's improved that much, or whether Broner just wasn't as good as it seemed doesn't really matter, Maidana has next to nothing against Mayweather imo.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Perhaps people believed in Broners hype and that his style is similar to Floyd's?
Yeah apparently people did.
"LOL, the main thing here is he was fighting Paulie. No need to defend yourself everytime he hits you its like a pillow hitting your face.
(context: You said that in defense or Broner's lack of defense in the Paulie fight) (Maidana) is so slow and robotic. Hes a tough guy but dont see him lasting past 7 or 8.
Just for the record I would be delighted to eat crow here. I hope you guys are right because I love Maidana and hate Broner. But I think his style suits Broner perfectly."
-Silkeyjoe
Happy to eat crow here. But in fairness Broner wasnt as good as I thought he was, Floyd is!
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Anyone who fights Floyd is a B-side.
We've
agreed and disagreed on too many boxing topics over the years @
Beanflicker to think that I wouldn't completely eat crow for my Maidana-Broner. I was wrong then and I'm sure I admitted as much, if I didn't my apologies. In retrospect, I'm an idiot because I should have seen the signs that Broner was overrated. At the time, I thought they were keeping Broner away from boxers after seeing how Paulie and Rees (for three rounds) did against Broner and picked Maidana for a reason. In any event, it was a great win for Maidana, but that doesn't mean he can win a round against Floyd.
Lara (coming off a complete dismantling of Trout), Kirkland (career is resurrected by reuniting with Wolfe and great win over Tapia), Trout (loss to Lara and Canelo but a southpaw, tall, and decent speed), the better Charlo brother, Andrade (former Olympian, has a belt, beat Vanes), even Molina (tough style, draws against Lara, beat Kirkland really, and beat Floyd's guy Ishe), even go for glory and fight Kid Choc for a middleweight strap. I'm not suggesting these guys beat Mayweather, but they're tougher challenges than Maidana at 14-1, they're not with Top Rank, and there are story lines they could gin up for the fight.
I'm not trying to throw you under the bus for a bad prediction - I've made plenty of them myself - just trying to illustrate that the upset over Broner was indeed a big win.
And I get what you're saying, there are a lot of guys out there who are tougher fights for Mayweather. But that's not how boxing works, man. You know that. No champion in the history of boxing fought guys just based on how tough they were. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying champions didn't want to test themselves against tough fighters, but there always had to be a significant amount of reward to go along with the risk.
Austin Trout? You're telling me you think a guy coming off of two losses should get a megafight with the sports #1 p4p? Come on.
Charlo? Come on man. He's a young prospect with less than 20 fights and is only now fighting for a world title against Molina. You mean to tell me you'd throw Charlo in there with Floyd before he had his first 12 rounder? Come on, that's insane.
I love James Kirkland, but he's still on the comeback trail in terms of his career. He isn't even ranked in the top 10. Do you really think Floyd should be fighting a guy not even ranked in the top 10 at 154? Where's the logic behind that. Nobody would give two shits about that fight.
Andrade is very promising but again, another young prospect with no name value who just fought and won his first world title (if you can call the WBO a "world title") against another solid fighter with very little name value.
Lara is the only realistic option out of those, and I agree he's the best test for Floyd at 154, but how do you sell that fight? Lara has no name value.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Hah, no need to hang people out for picking Broner in that one, I think most thought he'd win,
For sure, it's not my goal to hang people out to dry for bad picks because I've made my fair share of them, and I picked Broner to win as well.
I just think that if you thought Broner was going to dominate Maidana, you can't come back and say "oh yeah I always knew Broner wasn't shit, that wasn't a big win for Maidana".
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
I think Lara has as much if not more name value than Guerrero and Ortiz did at the time they were fighting Floyd
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
I think Lara has as much if not more name value than Guerrero and Ortiz did at the time they were fighting Floyd
How do you figure that?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
I think Lara has as much if not more name value than Guerrero and Ortiz did at the time they were fighting Floyd
How do you figure that?
Well he's the guy who just destroyed the guy Canelo is about to face so is well known through that and also known to get a bad decision against Williams in his comeback fight after Martinez.
Guerrero was relatively unknown to casual fans and only known from his close win over Berto. Ortiz known from the foty with Berto an loss to Maidana but certainly a bigger name since fighting Floyd. I just don't see a huge difference in their name powers at the time of the fights.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
I'm glad Maidana got the call :D I was calling for Quillin but Maidana has the better momentum :cool:
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Anyone who fights Floyd is a B-side.
We've
agreed and disagreed on too many boxing topics over the years @
Beanflicker to think that I wouldn't completely eat crow for my Maidana-Broner. I was wrong then and I'm sure I admitted as much, if I didn't my apologies. In retrospect, I'm an idiot because I should have seen the signs that Broner was overrated. At the time, I thought they were keeping Broner away from boxers after seeing how Paulie and Rees (for three rounds) did against Broner and picked Maidana for a reason. In any event, it was a great win for Maidana, but that doesn't mean he can win a round against Floyd.
Lara (coming off a complete dismantling of Trout), Kirkland (career is resurrected by reuniting with Wolfe and great win over Tapia), Trout (loss to Lara and Canelo but a southpaw, tall, and decent speed), the better Charlo brother, Andrade (former Olympian, has a belt, beat Vanes), even Molina (tough style, draws against Lara, beat Kirkland really, and beat Floyd's guy Ishe), even go for glory and fight Kid Choc for a middleweight strap. I'm not suggesting these guys beat Mayweather, but they're tougher challenges than Maidana at 14-1, they're not with Top Rank, and there are story lines they could gin up for the fight.
I'm not trying to throw you under the bus for a bad prediction - I've made plenty of them myself - just trying to illustrate that the upset over Broner was indeed a big win.
And I get what you're saying, there are a lot of guys out there who are tougher fights for Mayweather. But that's not how boxing works, man. You know that. No champion in the history of boxing fought guys just based on how tough they were. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying champions didn't want to test themselves against tough fighters, but there always had to be a significant amount of reward to go along with the risk.
Austin Trout? You're telling me you think a guy coming off of two losses should get a megafight with the sports #1 p4p? Come on.
Charlo? Come on man. He's a young prospect with less than 20 fights and is only now fighting for a world title against Molina. You mean to tell me you'd throw Charlo in there with Floyd before he had his first 12 rounder? Come on, that's insane.
I love James Kirkland, but he's still on the comeback trail in terms of his career. He isn't even ranked in the top 10. Do you really think Floyd should be fighting a guy not even ranked in the top 10 at 154? Where's the logic behind that. Nobody would give two shits about that fight.
Andrade is very promising but again, another young prospect with no name value who just fought and won his first world title (if you can call the WBO a "world title") against another solid fighter with very little name value.
Lara is the only realistic option out of those, and I agree he's the best test for Floyd at 154, but how do you sell that fight? Lara has no name value.
Unless his opponent his Pacquiao, Canelo, or Cotto, the B-side won't have too much effect on the overall sales of the event. Maidana and Lara versus Mayweather wouldn't do much different in sales.
Khan hadn't fought at 147 and isn't ranked at 147, and he was in the running until the very end for a fight against Floyd. Khan also lost two of his last five fights and both of his most recent fights against big name opponents. Maidana right now is ranked # 9 in the Ring Magazine's welterweight ranking. So, I don't think we can count out junior middleweights because they have lost recently or because they are ranked low or are unranked. Andrade also has a belt, for whatever's that's worth. Molina is in everyone's top five at junior middleweight and has been for a while and he beat Ishe Smith, a TMT fighter.
Let's just ask the easy question though: do you think Molina, Andrade, Kirkland, Charlo, or Lara wouldn't pose more of a challenge to Floyd than Maidana?
Any way you cut it, whether Maidana was or wasn't the best available pick for an opponent, doesn't mean the fight doesn't stink, man. It's already decided and the outcome is predetermined. $70 PPV for a fight where the odds are 14-1 is more like WWE than a boxing match.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Hah, no need to hang people out for picking Broner in that one, I think most thought he'd win,
For sure, it's not my goal to hang people out to dry for bad picks because I've made my fair share of them, and I picked Broner to win as well.
I just think that if you thought Broner was going to dominate Maidana, you can't come back and say "oh yeah I always knew Broner wasn't shit, that wasn't a big win for Maidana".
It was a great win for Maidana and I get why it's put him here, it just doesn't really speak for his chances in this fight imo. I still think Broner is a great talent, just one with some big holes and a low output. Figured he'd be able to hurt Maidana first, but you kind of knew that was going to be a real fight. Mayweather won't engage Maidana, he'll jab, potshot, turn him, rake him coming inside over and over. It's perfectly acceptable on paper, but really not a good fight to me.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
another point i dissagree with is that people thought maidana would be a push over for broner, its possible that they did, i didnt read it anywhere that they did and i definately didnt, i didnt bet on maidana because i thought it would go the distance and he would be robbed
Well let me quote from the original thread I replied to many months ago (the context of the thread was that Broner/Maidana was taken off PPV, and people were agreeing with the decision). You replied to this thread so you must have seen them.
I'm not that interested in Broner-Maidana. With all the big fights GB has around that weight for Broner, it seems like they are feeding Maidana too him.
Me neither.. this is a gimmie fight for broner really and gbp changing this to a non ppv event kind of shows that. They figured people arent going to pay for this mismatch so they backtracked.Broner-maidana is a Boxing after Dark level fight.. Easy fight for broner..
Maidana should be tailor made for broner but honestly if gavin rees can tag ya so can maidana, so hopefully broner doesn't tighten up his defense and eats one he doesn't seem comin but don't see it happenin.
Maidana is a tough dude, but styles make fights. Maidana is a mauler who leaves himself open. In my opinion, this is a fight to make Broner look good after the sour taste left in people's mouths from his last fight. I think they'll stay away from boxers for a while with Broner. As far as outcomes, I could see something comparable to Alexander - Urango
this kinda reminds me of mayweater v gatti. i think that might be what golden boy sees as well. but broner ain't floyd and marcos ain't arturo... hopefully it ends differently.
(Maidana) is so slow and robotic. Hes a tough guy but dont see him lasting past 7 or 8
Broners going to look good here imo, could even be a DeMarco type showing. He's not going to have to look for Maidana, he'll be able to get set and let his hands go to the body. The guy reminds me vaguely of Canelo as much as anyone else in truth, maybe I'm nuts there but he's not great on his feet and needs to plant them to get off, kind of punches in a shell etc. Still don't see Maidana winning this though, Broner can hurt him and will tee off.
Maidana's Achilles Heel is well-known, he's susceptible to speed and body punches. Broner will target the body early in the fight with his speed and stop Maidana. Boxers can beat Broner, but Maidana isn't a boxer. That's why this fight wasn't worth PPV.
And some from some different threads pre-fight…
"If ever there was a fighter tailor made for Broners style it is Maidana. I'm not sure the guy can even move laterally. Its going to appear that you are watching a fight split screen because the speed difference will be that obvious. His style feeds Broners. Look for a white object to be thrown in late and a defeated Maidana sitting on his stool looking like a human pincushion. Paulie and Rees gave Broner more trouble then Maidana will"
"I don't think he'll have any serious problems with Maidana, but almost anything can happen in the ring so I'll keep hoping he has some humility beat into his ass."
"Broner picks him apart."
"Great card. Maidana Broner will most likely be very 1 sided but Karas Thurman should be a war..."
"Broner wins by KO in 1st half. I love Maidana but he is tailor made for Broner"
fair enough, i dont read all the posts on the threads so i havent read them before
how did i reply to the thread?
im suprised people saw that fight this way after the pauli fight
i would put my house on mayweather maidana being 12-0
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Let's just ask the easy question though: do you think Molina, Andrade, Kirkland, Charlo, or Lara wouldn't pose more of a challenge to Floyd than Maidana?
I already answered that question: yes, I do think there are guys at 154 who pose more of a challenge to Floyd Mayweather than Maidana (Lara being one of them, I would debate Kirkland and Molina though). Would I pick any of those guys you listed to beat Mayweather? No, but I FULLY concede that a fighter like Lara would be a much more interesting matchup stylistically for Floyd than Maidana. I never argued that Maidana posed the greatest threat to Mayweather at 147-154. My argument was that - with Pac, Bradley, Garcia, and several others with fights already booked, and Floyd having beaten several of the other top contenders at 147 and 154 - Maidana was the best choice, in terms of him having momentum and being a legit opponent.
When you're trying to create a big PPV event, there's more to it than just who boxing geeks like us consider the most risky fight. The fighter needs momentum and there needs to be drama and a good story to captivate a mainstream audience. Maidana brings that to the table. He's a credible opponent with a good name value and fan support, who just handed Floyd's "lil brother" his ass.
I'm not giving an opinion, I'm giving facts. Floyd can do bigger business fighting Maidana than Lara, Andrade, or anyone else at 154. To say any "B-side" will do the same buy rates shows a complete lack of understanding for boxing as a business.
And if anyone here wants to believe in the fairy tale nonsense about some past champion fighting "high risk/low reward" guys over "high or medium risk/high reward" guys, you can live in that fantasy world.
Do I think Maidana will beat Mayweather? No, but I don't think Lara, Andrade, Kirkland, Trout, ect would, either.
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Re: In defense of Maidana/PBF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Any way you cut it, whether Maidana was or wasn't the best available pick for an opponent, doesn't mean the fight doesn't stink, man. It's already decided and the outcome is predetermined. $70 PPV for a fight where the odds are 14-1 is more like WWE than a boxing match.
I don't agree that the fight stinks, like I said I think Maidana has certain attributes that have the potential to make the fight somewhat interesting, but I agree it's less than ideal.
To me, it's a stay-busy fight before the Pac/Bradley winner.
