Should Scotland stay in the UK?

David Bowie says 'Yes', whilst I say no. What do you say about Scots independance?

I say no because I want to see the Scots freed from the tyranny of the UK. To do so they need to get rid of the pound though. They would be a perfect sized country and one with minimal oil reserves which could be used like in the Norweigian system. Freed from the slavery of the pound and the huge debt burden, Scotland would have many options open to it. I urge them to vote yes, and to keep the option open for me to join with them one day as I prefer them to the strange place with an obsession with an incredibly bankrupt London which deserves to sink under its latest property bubble crash.

What do you want for Scotland? Freedom or more of the same?

you forgot to add "I don't give a fuck" as an option

Such is the class of the contemporary English. They don't care less as they think the London leech will hold it all together. Personally, I want Scottish devolution to be the start of new devolutions and for London to rot on it's own in a pile of debt, hung in a noose a bare square mile long.

London isn't British and step by step Britain needs to pull from the London vortex of oppression and debt. Leave them on their own in a bastardised non English city and let them furrow on. Eventually Britain will just invade London again and teach them some manners. And give the Queen a 3 month bus driving course. Silly old bitch.

I want Scotland to stay with us, look how the USA failed when they left us.

No, they should stay and retain the prestige of being the largest county in England.

The problem is that they want to keep the pound... :vd:

They want to play at being an independent country for romantic and anti monarch reasons but want the crutch of blaiming the UK via the pound when it doesn't work.

There's a reason they want 16 year olds able to vote on it.

Keeping the pound is the worst thing they could ever do. They would end up like Greece or Spain. They have a wonderful opportunity to do things the right way and become a decent nation. They should look to Iceland as a model and to Norway as a model.

I see many are undecided, but the pound is only going to make people say 'No' to independence as the people know the pound is a noose around the neck for a small nation like this.

New currency, no monarchy, oil invested into pensions, Scotland can be great.

So Miles are you going to become a Korean citizen ?

I will always be English and proud of it as England is a great country and though it has a rotten financial sector, the surrounding fields and villages are its proud beating heart. The blood has become infected though and that saddens me. It is for this reason that I want to see Scotland make a fresh start, to show London that there is a voice that wants freedom. The Scots don't hate the English, but they should and likely do hate what the political and banking elite have been doing to them. England needs to be woken up and to see that it is letting things slip and to get serious about doing the right things to make England great.

Would I become a citizen here? It is something I have considered and have no problems with that. Dual nationality is acceptable, I am already permanent.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Keeping the pound is the worst thing they could ever do. They would end up like Greece or Spain. They have a wonderful opportunity to do things the right way and become a decent nation. They should look to Iceland as a model and to Norway as a model.

I see many are undecided, but the pound is only going to make people say 'No' to independence as the people know the pound is a noose around the neck for a small nation like this.

New currency, no monarchy, oil invested into pensions, Scotland can be great.

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Losing the pound appears to ve swaying many undecided voters according to recent polls and losing the pound would likely lead to them aiming for the Euro, which is a much better currency than the pound :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Keeping the pound is the worst thing they could ever do. They would end up like Greece or Spain. They have a wonderful opportunity to do things the right way and become a decent nation. They should look to Iceland as a model and to Norway as a model.

I see many are undecided, but the pound is only going to make people say 'No' to independence as the people know the pound is a noose around the neck for a small nation like this.

New currency, no monarchy, oil invested into pensions, Scotland can be great.

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Losing the pound appears to ve swaying many undecided voters according to recent polls and losing the pound would likely lead to them aiming for the Euro, which is a much better currency than the pound :rolleyes:

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They don't need the pound which is currently making Britain poorer all round with quantitative easing and currency debasement and the ever expanding national debt. Obviously they shouldn't take on the Euro as that is a condemned currency too.

Scotland should start its own currency and there are several possible ways of doing that. Salmond seems intent on Sterling and keeping the monarchy which isn't Independence. He needs to move away from things that have failed.

Keeping the pound is the worst thing they could do? Model their finances on Iceland? Tyranny of the UK? Do you know how ridiculous the things that you've said are? :confused:

They need to keep the pound so they have a central bank who can bail out Lloyds and RBS the next time they have huge losses. Both are HQd in Scotland. If they're part of the euro there's no bailout and Scotland makes Greece look like Monte Carlo, the whole country in crushing debt for over half a century as a best case scenario.

It's all irrelevant anyway. The yes campaign would need to be currently running at 60% support as people will peel off from fear of the unknown as the vote gets closer. Barring some miracle Scotland says no to independence by a decent margin.

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Originally Posted by Bo-Bo24

Keeping the pound is the worst thing they could do? Model their finances on Iceland? Tyranny of the UK? Do you know how ridiculous the things that you've said are? :confused:

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None of those things are ridiculous. Open your eyes and see what is going in the UK.

a) The UK is bankrupt. The pound isn't worth the digits they use on a computer screen to print it. It has gone to zombie fraudulent banks and if it ever reaches the street you have hyper inflation. You all have the debt both personal and national. It is a mess and Scotland doesn't need to be associating with that.
b) Iceland said no to giving up their nation to international bankers, Britain does the opposite keeping its citizens poorer through financial repression.
c) Tyranny for sure (undemocratic, police state, austerity for only the poor, unchecked immigration, subservient press, stopping people at airports, economic slavery via repression etc).

I have explained my points and it is for you to tell me why I am wrong. Nothing I have said is ridiculous, but I admit it might seem strange to anyone who simply reads the papers. That's another problem with the UK, they don't tell people the truth.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

They need to keep the pound so they have a central bank who can bail out Lloyds and RBS the next time they have huge losses. Both are HQd in Scotland. If they're part of the euro there's no bailout and Scotland makes Greece look like Monte Carlo, the whole country in crushing debt for over half a century as a best case scenario.

It's all irrelevant anyway. The yes campaign would need to be currently running at 60% support as people will peel off from fear of the unknown as the vote gets closer. Barring some miracle Scotland says no to independence by a decent margin.

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Royal Bank of Scotland has already said they would stay in England, so they can stay. Then the other one can just go broke or stay too if they like. England hates its own people, but will very happily bail out corporations that they like.

Scotland should throw out the trash and do things properly. They should show how a system should work, rather than copy the methods of the most corrupt financial sectors in the world.

I want to see models with alternatives that can show people how a system should be run. It would also show the English people how abused they have been and in turn might well inspire them.

Scottish independence could be a great thing for the region. Instead of sinking with it all, Scotland can shine a beam of light and say 'This is a country of the people for the people'. A lot of other nations have totally forgotten about representing the people.

I know what Mel gibson would say..

I feel independence would not be of any benefit to Scotland, or the rest of the UK trouble is
regional politics the Tory strong hold is the south east of the uk.
The Tory party does not exist in Scotland, and we have very few of the twats in Wales, so
in regions were there are not any Scotland, feel like they don't want to be governed by them.

I a not sure how much oil is actually in what would be scottish waters, I dont think it is enough to keep a country going and I am not sure what scotland can do to become a self running country, we dont really make anything and only export whisky really :S..

I'm going to vote yes in the referendum.

Sean Connery says for Independence. Good man. The former Bond lest we forget.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

They need to keep the pound so they have a central bank who can bail out Lloyds and RBS the next time they have huge losses. Both are HQd in Scotland. If they're part of the euro there's no bailout and Scotland makes Greece look like Monte Carlo, the whole country in crushing debt for over half a century as a best case scenario.

It's all irrelevant anyway. The yes campaign would need to be currently running at 60% support as people will peel off from fear of the unknown as the vote gets closer. Barring some miracle Scotland says no to independence by a decent margin.

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Royal Bank of Scotland has already said they would stay in England, so they can stay. Then the other one can just go broke or stay too if they like. England hates its own people, but will very happily bail out corporations that they like.

Scotland should throw out the trash and do things properly. They should show how a system should work, rather than copy the methods of the most corrupt financial sectors in the world.

I want to see models with alternatives that can show people how a system should be run. It would also show the English people how abused they have been and in turn might well inspire them.

Scottish independence could be a great thing for the region. Instead of sinking with it all, Scotland can shine a beam of light and say 'This is a country of the people for the people'. A lot of other nations have totally forgotten about representing the people.

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You can't let even one big bank go bust or they all go over like dominoes. And you can't let an independent Scotland that wouldn't have the wherewithall to bail out even one bank be in a position where they might have to. So Scotland will remain part of Britain.

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Originally Posted by palmerq

I a not sure how much oil is actually in what would be scottish waters, I dont think it is enough to keep a country going and I am not sure what scotland can do to become a self running country, we dont really make anything and only export whisky really :S..

I'm going to vote yes in the referendum.

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80% of north sea oil has already been extracted. The remaining 20% will cost increasing amounts of cash to extract and won't provide the same revenue to an independent Scottish exchequer that the original 80% did to the British exchequer.

Once the oil runs out you've only got whisky and a vast number of unemployable neds drinking buckfast and creating another generation oflosers. You're much better off in the long run being permanently subsidised by the south of England.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

They need to keep the pound so they have a central bank who can bail out Lloyds and RBS the next time they have huge losses. Both are HQd in Scotland. If they're part of the euro there's no bailout and Scotland makes Greece look like Monte Carlo, the whole country in crushing debt for over half a century as a best case scenario.

It's all irrelevant anyway. The yes campaign would need to be currently running at 60% support as people will peel off from fear of the unknown as the vote gets closer. Barring some miracle Scotland says no to independence by a decent margin.

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Royal Bank of Scotland has already said they would stay in England, so they can stay. Then the other one can just go broke or stay too if they like. England hates its own people, but will very happily bail out corporations that they like.

Scotland should throw out the trash and do things properly. They should show how a system should work, rather than copy the methods of the most corrupt financial sectors in the world.

I want to see models with alternatives that can show people how a system should be run. It would also show the English people how abused they have been and in turn might well inspire them.

Scottish independence could be a great thing for the region. Instead of sinking with it all, Scotland can shine a beam of light and say 'This is a country of the people for the people'. A lot of other nations have totally forgotten about representing the people.

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You can't let even one big bank go bust or they all go over like dominoes. And you can't let an independent Scotland that wouldn't have the wherewithall to bail out even one bank be in a position where they might have to. So Scotland will remain part of Britain.

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The banks should have gone bust to begin with. It would have been catastrophic, but I think that should have happened. It was like a person that had grown a massive cyst on its head the size of a balloon. Realistically it should have been burst and operated on as it was kind of nasty. Instead the cyst is now the size of an entire village. I still think that morality means you admit you made a mistake and do something about the cyst. It will be even more painful, but do something as it looks and is hideous.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Sean Connery says for Independence. Good man. The former Bond lest we forget.

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Is this Connery, the women beating patriot whom doesn't live in Scotland?

That's the long and short of it Kirkland, the oil won't last forever and somebody has to pay their dole.

Have you never punched a man? Why make differentiation based on gender lines? Are you a feminist? Sean Connery was James Bond. JAMES BOND!

I've punched men in a boxing ring and a couple of times outside of the ring in defence when physically attacked.

I'd never assualt a physically weaker person (which a woman almost always is, I am not differentiating based on a mere arbitory gender status) due to a verbal argument and I never will, to do so would mean a complete lack of self control and morals on my part.

For example I'd no sooner give you a good beating than I would a woman.

I only say Woman beater because Connery never confessed to or endorsed giving the elderly, frail or infirm a slap to put them in line... Just woman, which would make him a woman beater?

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

They need to keep the pound so they have a central bank who can bail out Lloyds and RBS the next time they have huge losses. Both are HQd in Scotland. If they're part of the euro there's no bailout and Scotland makes Greece look like Monte Carlo, the whole country in crushing debt for over half a century as a best case scenario.

It's all irrelevant anyway. The yes campaign would need to be currently running at 60% support as people will peel off from fear of the unknown as the vote gets closer. Barring some miracle Scotland says no to independence by a decent margin.

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Royal Bank of Scotland has already said they would stay in England, so they can stay. Then the other one can just go broke or stay too if they like. England hates its own people, but will very happily bail out corporations that they like.

Scotland should throw out the trash and do things properly. They should show how a system should work, rather than copy the methods of the most corrupt financial sectors in the world.

I want to see models with alternatives that can show people how a system should be run. It would also show the English people how abused they have been and in turn might well inspire them.

Scottish independence could be a great thing for the region. Instead of sinking with it all, Scotland can shine a beam of light and say 'This is a country of the people for the people'. A lot of other nations have totally forgotten about representing the people.

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You can't let even one big bank go bust or they all go over like dominoes. And you can't let an independent Scotland that wouldn't have the wherewithall to bail out even one bank be in a position where they might have to. So Scotland will remain part of Britain.

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The banks should have gone bust to begin with. It would have been catastrophic, but I think that should have happened. It was like a person that had grown a massive cyst on its head the size of a balloon. Realistically it should have been burst and operated on as it was kind of nasty. Instead the cyst is now the size of an entire village. I still think that morality means you admit you made a mistake and do something about the cyst. It will be even more painful, but do something as it looks and is hideous.

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You can let the bank shareholders lose their money and sack and imprison the top execuatives but you have to guarantee the debts of any major bank or the entire system goes down and it destroys the real economy, we're talking situations far worse then Greece (Greece currently has 30% unemployment, debt compound trap etc etc) in every major country. Much cheaper to bail the baks out.

Regulate them afterwards by all means to prevent them doing it again and put bankers who break the rules in jail but impossible to let a big bank go bust.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Have you never punched a man? Why make differentiation based on gender lines? Are you a feminist? Sean Connery was James Bond. JAMES BOND!

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And he says the word Sausage so well.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

They need to keep the pound so they have a central bank who can bail out Lloyds and RBS the next time they have huge losses. Both are HQd in Scotland. If they're part of the euro there's no bailout and Scotland makes Greece look like Monte Carlo, the whole country in crushing debt for over half a century as a best case scenario.

It's all irrelevant anyway. The yes campaign would need to be currently running at 60% support as people will peel off from fear of the unknown as the vote gets closer. Barring some miracle Scotland says no to independence by a decent margin.

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Royal Bank of Scotland has already said they would stay in England, so they can stay. Then the other one can just go broke or stay too if they like. England hates its own people, but will very happily bail out corporations that they like.

Scotland should throw out the trash and do things properly. They should show how a system should work, rather than copy the methods of the most corrupt financial sectors in the world.

I want to see models with alternatives that can show people how a system should be run. It would also show the English people how abused they have been and in turn might well inspire them.

Scottish independence could be a great thing for the region. Instead of sinking with it all, Scotland can shine a beam of light and say 'This is a country of the people for the people'. A lot of other nations have totally forgotten about representing the people.

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You can't let even one big bank go bust or they all go over like dominoes. And you can't let an independent Scotland that wouldn't have the wherewithall to bail out even one bank be in a position where they might have to. So Scotland will remain part of Britain.

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The banks should have gone bust to begin with. It would have been catastrophic, but I think that should have happened. It was like a person that had grown a massive cyst on its head the size of a balloon. Realistically it should have been burst and operated on as it was kind of nasty. Instead the cyst is now the size of an entire village. I still think that morality means you admit you made a mistake and do something about the cyst. It will be even more painful, but do something as it looks and is hideous.

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You can let the bank shareholders lose their money and sack and imprison the top execuatives but you have to guarantee the debts of any major bank or the entire system goes down and it destroys the real economy, we're talking situations far worse then Greece (Greece currently has 30% unemployment, debt compound trap etc etc) in every major country. Much cheaper to bail the baks out.

Regulate them afterwards by all means to prevent them doing it again and put bankers who break the rules in jail but impossible to let a big bank go bust.

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The banks should have been allowed to fail several years ago. From this point on a bankrupt Britain is going to be held at gunpoint and the city of London with its legal team and Bank of England phantom money supply is going to carry on with what can only be described as rampant criminality.

My description of the massive cyst is apt because banks haven't changed. They are still insolvent and in turn the government is utterly broke. It would have been better to treat the cyst early and suffer the real pain as the moral hazard is now going to be kept on the books permanently and the UK is functioning as a protector of elite criminals and the rest of society has to pay for it on an almost permanent basis through financial repression. The average high street is a choice of bookie, pay day lender, or bank. Basically take a chance, tide me over, or financially repress me.

The Mt Gox situation is a good example of how to deal with a messy situation. You let the company go broke, some bitcoin is lost, the market goes down because of uncertainty, but in the long run every thing is clean as the bad apple is thrown away. The banking sector has done the opposite. The bad apples were reimbursed for their theft, are still getting filthy rich, and they print more of an ever debased and untrusted currency. The suffering and pain is temporary with Mt Gox and Bitcoin, it is permanent with the mafia Bank of England, The Tories, and the insolvent, fraudulent banks.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

I've punched men in a boxing ring and a couple of times outside of the ring in defence when physically attacked.

I'd never assualt a physically weaker person (which a woman almost always is, I am not differentiating based on a mere arbitory gender status) due to a verbal argument and I never will, to do so would mean a complete lack of self control and morals on my part.

For example I'd no sooner give you a good beating than I would a woman.

I only say Woman beater because Connery never confessed to or endorsed giving the elderly, frail or infirm a slap to put them in line... Just woman, which would make him a woman beater?

Hope this helps.

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Very well articulated. I agree with you. Nobody should be slapping anyone else and regardless of gender or condition it isn't a very nice thing to be saying.

Not related to the above, but just a further point about the banks. It isn't just about the fact that they weren't allowed to go bust, it was also the fact that NOTHING was reformed. Okay, you could very well argue that the effect on the economy would have been tremendous, and no doubt it would, but then if you were to bail out fraudulent banks, then surely there had to be consequences for doing so. You don't just allow the public to suffer and not make the banks and bankers themselves suffer. They should feel the brunt of the suffering and that would have meant the top bankers in prison and serious banking reform. None of that happened and so now fraud has been legitimised and we are seeing it all through the government and banking. They have crossed the path into something completely crooked and corrupt and still the public suffer and long will they suffer and those banks haven't paid for their crimes.

People can handle it if things go wrong and the guilty pay a price. Instead the guilty have got away with it and the people are paying the price. That is the problem with the banks. I would like them to vanish and for banking to be completely nationalised and controlled. I don't see how swamping the public with debt is good for an economy, I really don't. The society of credit and debt is something that is cruel and abusive. People should have been bailed out and the banks left to rot. For too long it is society that has been preyed on by the banks, and eventually when they made a bet too far it collapsed. They deserved it, but they didn't deserve to be helped. The preyed upon deserved to be helped.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Have you never punched a man? Why make differentiation based on gender lines? Are you a feminist? Sean Connery was James Bond. JAMES BOND!

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And he says the word Sausage so well.

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Your jokes are not appreciated here. :)

So, just two weeks until the referendum and its neck and neck, with the Yes campaign just taking the lead according to the most recent surveys. Almost impossible to tell which way it will go, but I really hope the Scots choose to go their own way. Simply choosing to no longer be a nuclear power would make the population as a whole significantly wealthier (leave that to the English if they must have nukes), and the opportunities that come with a more socialist orientated government that isn't run by the billionaires of the South East would see the whole country sharing in the success.

The only people that aren't winning with a Yes vote is the English and Welsh, as there are still oil companies going to the North Sea, even if the oil fields are reducing. Such an exciting time to be a Scot, looking forward to the results with interest.

Very interesting to watch across the bond. I hope you guys stay with England but I know very little of your affairs. Whichever you choose, I hope it works out well. If you break away I wonder if Cameron would pull a Putin, that would be so cool.

Apparently, the reason is money

Hello, you delightful and exquisite people of the boxing world. I hope all is well with all with both lovers and loathers alike. Particular shout outs to the members of the party.

How splendid that the Scots appear to be heading down the right track. All I see from London is fear politics and threats and frankly it has been this way from London for decades, but carried out on people everywhere. At least Scotland has the right idea concerning the NHS and student fees and they logically have to cut off the UK link. The Scots have never voted for a Tory government (neither did Britain as a whole actually) and the opportunity to rid itself of the monstrosity that is London based politics has to be taken with both hands.

There are issues with independence (currency, monarchy etc) but to not take the chance to take matters into their own hands would be criminal. I hope Scotland leads the way in turn Northern Ireand, Wales and then Northern England too can become inspired and be led to freedom.

The breakup of the UK is something immensely positive and inspiring and if this first step can be taken, great things can hopefully follow. Well done Scotland for staying active and pushing this to the end. You deserve your freedom and so does the rest of the UK. A free Scotland is a game changer.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Hello, you delightful and exquisite people of the boxing world. I hope all is well with all with both lovers and loathers alike. Particular shout outs to the members of the party.

How splendid that the Scots appear to be heading down the right track. All I see from London is fear politics and threats and frankly it has been this way from London for decades, but carried out on people everywhere. At least Scotland has the right idea concerning the NHS and student fees and they logically have to cut off the UK link. The Scots have never voted for a Tory government (neither did Britain as a whole actually) and the opportunity to rid itself of the monstrosity that is London based politics has to be taken with both hands.

There are issues with independence (currency, monarchy etc) but to not take the chance to take matters into their own hands would be criminal. I hope Scotland leads the way in turn Northern Ireand, Wales and then Northern England too can become inspired and be led to freedom.

The breakup of the UK is something immensely positive and inspiring and if this first step can be taken, great things can hopefully follow. Well done Scotland for staying active and pushing this to the end. You deserve your freedom and so does the rest of the UK. A free Scotland is a game changer.

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2 weeks did you get all your stuff done?

I know that Scottland got poorer because of Margaret Thatcher. They hate her there still.
I love beer there, btw

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Hello, you delightful and exquisite people of the boxing world. I hope all is well with all with both lovers and loathers alike. Particular shout outs to the members of the party.

How splendid that the Scots appear to be heading down the right track. All I see from London is fear politics and threats and frankly it has been this way from London for decades, but carried out on people everywhere. At least Scotland has the right idea concerning the NHS and student fees and they logically have to cut off the UK link. The Scots have never voted for a Tory government (neither did Britain as a whole actually) and the opportunity to rid itself of the monstrosity that is London based politics has to be taken with both hands.

There are issues with independence (currency, monarchy etc) but to not take the chance to take matters into their own hands would be criminal. I hope Scotland leads the way in turn Northern Ireand, Wales and then Northern England too can become inspired and be led to freedom.

The breakup of the UK is something immensely positive and inspiring and if this first step can be taken, great things can hopefully follow. Well done Scotland for staying active and pushing this to the end. You deserve your freedom and so does the rest of the UK. A free Scotland is a game changer.

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2 weeks did you get all your stuff done?

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Howdy, my good friend. I hope all is well out your way. Aye, everything is pretty much sorted out here. We are moving to the new place as soon as we can get some people to move in here.

I've been logging in curious to see if the ban keeps me away and it quite definitely does. Two weeks has been plenty of time. Great news about the poll closing in Scotland too, very pleasing news to return to.

We are having another royal baby which should swing the vote to No to independence. :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...e-9719058.html

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Originally Posted by Master

We are having another royal baby which should swing the vote to No to independence. :)

Kate Middleton Duchess of Cambridge pregnant: Alistair Darling insists royal baby two will have no impact on Scottish Independence vote - People - News - The Independent

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I'm only just recovering from the nausea caused by the saccharine coverage of the last little brat she squeezed out from between her legs. Bet she squeals like a common bitch when she's pushing the inbred little shite out.