Was this the greatest fight ever?

Sam McVey v Joe Jeannette - 1909 - Paris.

Just been reading some cool articles about this brutal fight.

Many ringside reporters claim that both men were given oxygen filled balloons to inhale between rounds to keep them going.

The fight lasted over FORTY EIGHT full 3 minute rounds with McVey's face battered to the point where he was unrecognizable , both eyes closed and severely injured and a badly damaged bleeding mouth.

Jeannette was beaten so badly in one round he was dragged back to his corner semi conscious other reports claim!

Imagine watching this from ringside and witnessing the state of two fighters after nearly 3 hours smashing each other, there are mixed reports but a few claim between them
They scored over THIRTY knockdowns!

Doesn't seem to be any footage available, theres a couple of McVeys fights on youtube but the quality is shit.

Would love to see this on film ;)

http://www.xlfights.com/Home/Entries/2009/6/27_Questioning_The_Greatest_of_All_Fights_-_Sam_McVey_vs._Joe_Jeannette_April_17,_1909.html

Some original newspaper reports from over 100 years ago

http://www.joejennette.com/JeannettevsMacVey.html

Another review

http://boxingmemories.com/2011/03/17/the-10-greatest-heavyweight-fights-of-all-time-joe-jeannette-vs-sam-mcvey/

what i wouldnt give to have some of these old fights on tape:)

If anyone can track this fight down and post it up it would be much appreciated :)

I'd imagine with a lot of these ancient 20+ round wars, most people would just be disgusted that they weren't stopped watching it these days. Once you reach a certain point of brutality, you may as well be watching street fights on youtube or something, imo. I'd much rather see a great fight end suddenly or definitively, as opposed to two guys killing each other because neither has enough left to impose themselves.

Must have been the ultimate battle of wills to watch though... Jeannette was down about 20 odd times then turned it round around the 20th round.

People tend to get sensitive these days about what the fight game is all about I think, its a brutal brutal sport where the main aim is to punch your opponent unconscious and knock him out :)

Id have loved to have witnessed a tear up like that personally.

I bet you both fighters ended up broke and destroyed. That just sounds insane.

Sounds like a pretty shit fight tbh.

Sounds skill less.

No interest in it.

The fight was not filmed, the 2,500 that were there are the only ones who will have had first hand accounts about what happened.


Undoubtedly a thrilling fight, the knockdown total is very much up for debate. With an American journal months later claiming all the knockdowns when reviewing the bout, which the French papers of the time did not mention.


But that said, it clearly was a hardcore brutal battle, even for the time.


Joe Jeannette vs. Sam McVea - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

They looked is superb condition.

They were both fighting around the time of Jack Johnson with another Black fighter (cant remember his name off the top of my head) who made up the awesone foursome as they were sometimes known.

McVey is said to have had pretty much the exact style and a similar build to Tyson.

I agree the fact both fighters were constantly given balloons filled with oxygen to keep them going is pretty macarbe by todays standards and I wonder how many other fights from this era used those tactics to prolong the fights?

Still this would have been one amazing fight to watch and you certainly wouldn't have felt short changed if you'd bought a ticket ;)

I read somewhere theres a big stash of fights from England and France on old reels that can only be accessed and viewed through a sister site of Pathe News but you have to register and prove you work in film production or some bullshit like that just to see them.

This was hailed as the "last fight to the finish" not sure exactly what thats supposed to mean really but these old fights and reading up on them is something im an absolute anorak for.

I also love the Graziano, Zale and Cerdan era, some true wars those guys had.

Georges Carpentier is another I have a lot of footage of ;)

Just fascinates me what the human body can go through when the brain attached simply wont give in :)

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The fight was not filmed, the 2,500 that were there are the only ones who will have had first hand accounts about what happened.


Undoubtedly a thrilling fight, the knockdown total is very much up for debate. With an American journal months later claiming all the knockdowns when reviewing the bout, which the French papers of the time did not mention.


But that said, it clearly was a hardcore brutal battle, even for the time.


Joe Jeannette vs. Sam McVea - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

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Good find mate not read this boxrec article.

Its amazing that after a fight that brutal they had 2 more!!!

A 30 round draw then a 12 rounder.

Crazy.

I have read accounts in Ring Magazine about fights during that period and the fighters ended up broke, forgotten and in institutions. Hard life.

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

Sounds like a pretty shit fight tbh.

Sounds skill less.

No interest in it.

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My thoughts exactly.. two skill challenged 1909 fighters lol just swinging away at each other..

Sounds like some bum fight on Thunderbox..

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Originally Posted by Master

I have read accounts in Ring Magazine about fights during that period and the fighters ended up broke, forgotten and in institutions. Hard life.

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And severly brain damaged id have thought.

Most of the older films are disappointing as hell to me, even some from the 30s and 40s are piss poor.
I love to read about the old fights and then see the film. It's been my experience to wonder if some of the writers even saw the fight. They either exaggerate or don't do the fight justice. Most are very accurate though.
Good luck finding a usable copy, I'm interested in you opinion of the writing compared to the fight.

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Originally Posted by smashup

Must have been the ultimate battle of wills to watch though... Jeannette was down about 20 odd times then turned it round around the 20th round.

People tend to get sensitive these days about what the fight game is all about I think, its a brutal brutal sport where the main aim is to punch your opponent unconscious and knock him out :)

Id have loved to have witnessed a tear up like that personally.

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Fair enough, but at some point it becomes solely about wills, and that's when it gets a bit to savage to interest me. I'd imagine it was a case where each man was just so damaged and fatigued that they weren't punching hard enough to put the other man out for good, you might not actually enjoy it as much as you'd imagine. Between that, and by the sounds of it, the oxygen baloons keeping these guys going, it isn't really what boxing has been about in our lifetimes. Would Corrales Castillo have been a more exciting fight if instead of stopping it, the ref had dragged Jose to his corner and shot him up with adrenaline to come out another round?

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

Most of the older films are disappointing as hell to me, even some from the 30s and 40s are piss poor.
I love to read about the old fights and then see the film. It's been my experience to wonder if some of the writers even saw the fight. They either exaggerate or don't do the fight justice. Most are very accurate though.
Good luck finding a usable copy, I'm interested in you opinion of the writing compared to the fight.

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I've got stacks of books from the gloved and pre gloved eras , every birthday and xmas a family member will buy me a few more and its been that way since I was a kid :)

One of my faves is a retrospective review of fights over the last 80 -90 odd years from Daily Mirror ringside reports of big fights, the Ali v Cooper review is brilliant and pretty much spot on with the guy going into gory detail of the spurts of blood pumping from Enrys cut and how Ali just pounded away at it as soon as he saw it.

He claims it was squirting so far it hit people 3 rows back from ringside.

I've checked a lot of fights covered in that book and its pretty bang on to be honest but I think like you I enjoy reading the reviews as much if not more than the actual footage.

Other books I've got (and no offence here) with reviews by a lot of American journalists are totally exaggerated and often conflict with other guys reviewing the same fight which is a total let down if you manage to see the footage ;)

I've got another on the history of boxing (I think saddo has or had it too if I remember back years ago ;)) from the origins in greece with leather studded gloves through pre gloved to prent day and ends up around Lennox Lewis time at the top.

Its an A4 size glossy paperback about the size of an old uk phone book (maybe a bit thinner).

The pre gloved era stories (Daniel Mendoza etc) are amazing but with no footage from well over 100 years ago you just gotta take the writers word for it and make your own mental pictures up.

Mendoza was hardcore and it was said he used to train his bare knuckles by punching the bark on a tree to make his knuckles 'horned' and more deadly weapons.

The phrase "your not up to scratch" comes from this era of boxing when a chalk line called the scratch line was drawn across the ring and a knockdown ended and started a new round (the reason some of these fights were well over 150 rounds , so you could have six knockdowns and six new rounds in the space of a few minutes)

If you weren't up to scratch you lost the fight :)

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by smashup

Must have been the ultimate battle of wills to watch though... Jeannette was down about 20 odd times then turned it round around the 20th round.

People tend to get sensitive these days about what the fight game is all about I think, its a brutal brutal sport where the main aim is to punch your opponent unconscious and knock him out :)

Id have loved to have witnessed a tear up like that personally.

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Fair enough, but at some point it becomes solely about wills, and that's when it gets a bit to savage to interest me. I'd imagine it was a case where each man was just so damaged and fatigued that they weren't punching hard enough to put the other man out for good, you might not actually enjoy it as much as you'd imagine. Between that, and by the sounds of it, the oxygen baloons keeping these guys going, it isn't really what boxing has been about in our lifetimes. Would Corrales Castillo have been a more exciting fight if instead of stopping it, the ref had dragged Jose to his corner and shot him up with adrenaline to come out another round?

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In a word Yes :) but thats just my opinion.

Dont get me wrong I love a good tactical battle but deep down I think we as fight fans really wanna see two guys locked in a serious battle of wills and beating the absolute cunt out of each other.

Foreman v Lyle - im sure most members who have seen it will agree is pure drama and excitment and one of the most thrilling heavyweight battles ever.
Boxing skill was out the window after a round or so and it was purely about a battle of wills .. " the way the public wants it" .... said the commentator ;)

I know which I find more exciting as a fight fan , at the end of the day I wanna see some action but respect totally say a Mayweather style.

Like I said boxing has been made safer and safer over the years and one day will be a distant memory people will look back on in disgust.

We are the last of a certain breed people, trust me on that ;)

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Originally Posted by smashup

They were both fighting around the time of Jack Johnson with another Black fighter (cant remember his name off the top of my head) who made up the awesone foursome as they were sometimes known.

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Harry Wills and Sam Langford were part of that group.

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Originally Posted by smashup

If anyone can track this fight down and post it up it would be much appreciated :)

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Film does not exist.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by smashup

They were both fighting around the time of Jack Johnson with another Black fighter (cant remember his name off the top of my head) who made up the awesone foursome as they were sometimes known.

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Harry Wills and Sam Langford were part of that group.

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Thats the guy Langford ;)

I think some of his fights are on youtube as it goes but poor quality.

So there was actually 5 in the same era ;)

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Originally Posted by smashup

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by smashup

They were both fighting around the time of Jack Johnson with another Black fighter (cant remember his name off the top of my head) who made up the awesone foursome as they were sometimes known.

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Harry Wills and Sam Langford were part of that group.

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Thats the guy Langford ;)

I think some of his fights are on youtube as it goes but poor quality.

So there was actually 5 in the same era ;)

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Some dont include Johnson as he was champion and ducked those guys. "No money in fighting another black man" He fought Jeanette a few times when Joe was first starting out and the same with Langford once early.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

Sounds like a pretty shit fight tbh.

Sounds skill less.

No interest in it.

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My thoughts exactly.. two skill challenged 1909 fighters lol just swinging away at each other..

Sounds like some bum fight on Thunderbox..

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We don't mention that name on these forums....

First recorded fight EVER...

Jack Cushing vs Mike Leonard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiTXye62mAY

The guy in the white shorts looks like he had MURDEROUS intentions... hahahhahahhahhaa....