George foreman for example. Wtf? This guy was so awkward. Slow. Strange style. Seems he can't box. Just shoved people around. Clubbed them to death. 64 kos in 68 wins. What made him so great?
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George foreman for example. Wtf? This guy was so awkward. Slow. Strange style. Seems he can't box. Just shoved people around. Clubbed them to death. 64 kos in 68 wins. What made him so great?
I agree 100%. If you can move like Ali,Young, and Holyfield he's a fish out of water. If someone stands in front of him and trade shots then I guess he is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Typing on this iPhone while teaching the class
Good points. Foreman was one scary mofo. Can you imagine getting in the ring with this monster? I can't think of anyone I would be more terrified of.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1I agree 100%. If you can move like Ali,Young, and Holyfield he's a fish out of water. If someone stands in front of him and trade shots then I guess he is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
You've gotten your MEDS confused with those jelly beans again.
Well if I had to single one out you all know who I'd pick..
Mr. Joe Frazier.
All Time Great for winning 1 out of 3 fights against a limited punch bag like Ali and getting annihilated 2ce over by George Foreman.
A real 200+ HW career reading 11-4 or something like that... ELEVEN-FOUR!!!
Today we would call that type of boxer a B.U.M!
Food for thought!
I would agree that if you take away Frazier's fights with Ali what did he really do that was world-class? Yes he beat Quarry and Ellis and Bugner and LHW Foster. But those guys are like equal to 2nd tier fighters. Frazier never fought Norton or Shavers or Lyle, now those guys were above tier 2 IMO.
Marciano wasn't much different to Foreman in terms of style. He's like mini George.
I dislike the old "greats" a little because 99% of those HWs would get smashed by a average HW of today, because we have all sorts of thing to improve fighters now a days.
I have my doubtsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Frazier after his 13th pro fight was fighting nothing but contenders. When Frazier fought Ali the first time he had already cleaned out the division with only 26 pro fights. He beat Quarry who beat Shavers and Lyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
I'll give you another one. Jack Johnson, how great was he? He beat Tommy burns who came in at 178 pounds vs Johnson 220 pounds. Stanley Ketchel who came in at 155 pounds. He was fighting Middleweights and LT. heavyweights. He also beat Jim Jeffries who had to loose 100 pounds and hasn't fought in six years.
Before he faced Ali, the contenders Frazier fought were either bums, cruisers or both with only some exceptions. Fact!
Frazier boxed only 9 times against natural HW's. He was brutally murdered on 2 occasions and of the 7 other times he managed to KO only 4 of them (weak!)
There's ya Joe Frazier! The only thing he'd be smoking these days is leftover butts from the garbage cause he'd make no money in boxing.
How do you think Frazier would fare against hype job Wilder? Or previously Michael Grant?
I think Wilder or Grant would have KO'd Frazier in less than a round without any exceptions. It's just physically impossible for Joe to have been able to box this calibre of opponent.
You can't put one era vs another. Joe as champ was only 205 pounds. Was Wilder a better fighter than Joe Louis who was 200 pounds. A kid in high school can beat Jesse Owens time. Does that means he's better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
I agree. Ali said it well, "We had our time, let them have theirs."
Some guys just have that great equalizer, in Foreman's case it was the freakish power.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Foreman has had an amazing career considering how goddamn slow and awkward he was.
That's what makes boxing great: you have that extra physical layer added into the mix.
Being a better boxer than a guy, in and of itself, doesn't mean jack shit. Can you maintain it for 10-15 rounds? Can you be a good boxer when you're tired and getting hit, or when one eye is swollen shut?
There's no sport that tests an athlete physically and mentally like fight sports. A guy like Rocky Marciano had a laughable reach for a HW (even by 'golden age' standards) and wasn't exactly a ring general, but when you have a guy with an unbreakable will, huge power and neverending stamina, you'll see a lot of superior skilled guys get broke physically and mentally.
When you have power like Foreman, it doesn't take a whole lot of punches to break someone physically and mentally.
Look say what you want about the old timers but Holmes and Foreman when they were in there 40's came back in the 90's proably the strongest era and did pretty well. The best of this era couldn't beat the best of the 90's at there peak. As the the 60's and back they would be cw and I think they could do pretty well with the crop that is there today but against the hw's they would have problems because they would be like 60 pounds lighter which is kinda a big deal don't you think but at cw they would do great.
Was Johnson really that big! He was way a head of his time in more ways than you would expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbig1
Strange thread title or concept, but I understand.
I nominate the Great Rocky Marciano.
5'10¾". Even for the 50s era, that's short for a Heavy.
Trained down to about 184 lbs.
Thin skin, prone to cuts.
Slow.
Awkward footwork.
1-dimensional.
No ability for fancy boxing or counter-punching, all he could do was come ahead and throw baseball type swings at anything he could hit, including at the arms and shoulders.
Very, very little ring-science in how this man fought.
^That's a lot of liabilities!
You'd wonder how he got into Boxing.
The God-given attributes he did possess:
Durability. Terrific Chin.
A Terrific right hand punch.
No fear of getting hit.
Tremendous Heart and will.
Endurance. Stamina. Part of that is genetics, but he also worked harder than anybody else to develop that endurance because he knew the other fighters had so many advantages such as height, weight, speed, timing, ring-science. He HAD to be in better shape than his opponents for his style to work. 15 rds of pressure and power that no one else could maintain.
And he was GREAT!