How would Sweet Pea in his prime do in the current era? Who could he beat?
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How would Sweet Pea in his prime do in the current era? Who could he beat?
He would wipe the floor with most of the current LWs except for Terrence Crawford and Linares.. im not saying these two will beat whitaker but they certainly can compete..
People often compare floyd to Pea but Floyd is way better...
Whitaker and Floyd Mayweather are both master defensive boxers, but Whitaker was better at it than Floyd... and Whitaker embraced fighting the toughest competition unlike Floyd.
The end. ;)
floyd and pea are different type of defensive fighters..Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
Pea relied on his natural cat like reflex while floyd is more fundamental... not to say that floyd doesnt have exceptional reflex but his defense is more technical..
Floyd has much better offense...
Today, at peak? He'd drive with one hand and still arrive early with coffee in hand.
Pea could stay squat and counter much more accurately inside, while maintaining upper body swivel. Floyd I think had better backfoot and pure defense but settled there.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitafloyd and pea are different type of defensive fighters..Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
Pea relied on his natural cat like reflex while floyd is more fundamental... not to say that floyd doesnt have exceptional reflex but his defense is more technical..
Floyd has much better offense...
Pea had amazing flexibility. The way he could twist, turn and dip his body to avoid shots was unmatched. It was a joy to watch him fight.
I met him at the MGM Grand right after the Tyson/Botha fight (met Floyd too while he was relatively unknown) and I said to Pernell: "You beat Oscar and they robbed you". He nodded his head and said: "Yep". True story.
I had a ball that night.
Whitaker sure enough boxed the ears off uncle roger mayweather...
One difference is Hall-of-Fame opposition.
Olympic Gold Medalist Pernell Whitaker fought several of them, while they were at their best.
Olympic Bronze Medalist Floyd Mayweather Jr, where's the Hall-of-Fame opposition that he faced at their best?
I think it depends on which weight class were talking about. Sweet P was still prime in several weight classes. My personal opinion is that he beats everybody except Floyd but I'm not so sure how that fight would go. Neither guy saw that type of master class boxer and I would love to see how they figured each other out. Nobody figured out a prime Sweet P. He was a special kind of untouchable. So I would not be so sure he couldn't enough rounds against Floyd before Floyd found him out. But I just don't see anyone else getting to Whitaker. He'd be a or the top p4p guy in any era.
Whitaker would be good in todays era no doubt. He was a defensive master.
However he aint no Mayweather, he lacked the firepower or the armour to back it up. Bit of a safety first, safety second type guy.
He ranks highly on my list but I think Floyd, Pac, Marquez, Bradlee, Morales etc would definitely get the drop on him.
Whitaker the master boxer the grasshoppers don't stand much chance.!;D
I hate fantasy matchups, I really do but the one fight I often dream about is Floyd vs Whitaker. Whitaker is my all time favorite so take this with a grain of salt. Whitaker and Floyd are very similar defensively except that Mayweather has a better counterpunching ability simply because he is better with with his feet and never gets out of position for his super stiff one punch counters (and attacks for that matter.) I think Whitaker would beat Floyd. To super simplify this, neither would give each other anything but Mayweather is not a great combination puncher. I think Whitaker wins rounds better than Mayweather. Mayweather is great, don't get me wrong. He's GREAT. I just think the combination punching of Whitaker would win the judges' favor more than the single shot deadliness of Mayweather. Whitaker would get you out of position and capitalize with combinations, whereas Mayweather does it with one shot and then occasionally follows up on that with more punches. I just don't think those "one shot" punches would land enough versus Whitaker. I don't think either guy would really be hurt by each other but the sheer economic volume of Whitaker would win out. I hate to simplify things this much, but Mayweather's one punch counters which his game is predicated upon simply wouldn't work on Whitaker. I love both guys. I really do but I think Mayweather would be out ugly'd but Whitaker. That is, with confidence, the only guy in boxing history I think would do in Mayweather. Anyone else, that's a joke. Also you're right about about Floyd being more fundamental, but Whitaker's instincts from being bend far too much at the hip are other worldly. Like I said, grain of salt and all but I think Whitaker is the greatest ifghter I have ever had the pleasure to watch. That's not an exaggeration either, I once had a friend tell me I "jacked off" to watching old Whitaker fights. I just think he was dynamic no matter his body position. He would be so out of position, seemingly off balance but he ALWAYS kept his balance. When most fighters find their eyes forward of their toes they bring their hands to their chin. If they don't, they get hit. Whitaker didn't. He returned (or didn't) and fucked you up instantly, I don't know how you beat that.
I love defensive fighters. My top 3 consist of Whitaker, Wright and Mayweather. Wright would have to stay center to be effective. Mayweather does his damage with one punch. Whitaker doesn't fit those molds, he could do anything from anywhere and that's why I think he's the most talented boxer of all times.
Pea IS, in a way probably the best "technically" but that isn't everything either.
With Floyd the speed and timing and accuracy all blend together so effectively.
And he has enough whap to do real damage.
Unfortunately Boxing is not Fencing.
Pea is the fucking man and would wipe the floor with any LW today, and at 147 he would have whipped anyone not named Floyd Mayweather.
He would have made Pacquiao look like a chump with his style. He would have made Pac miss so many of those punches that Pac would lose his faith in god.
BTW I see people always lumping Pea in with guys like Malignaggi who can't bust a grape. PEA COULD PUNCH! He wasn't Julian Jackson but he was a lot like Floyd: not a knockout puncher but a guy with enough power to keep his opponents from trying to bull rush willy nilly.
There was a thread awhile ago about Duran vs Whitaker prime for prime and a lot of people said Duran would KO Whitaker. LOL! I wanted to spit in their faces. You should be perm banned from a boxing forum for saying that!
Pac would have definitely beaten Pea. Pea never had to face up to that sorta shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
And no, Pea was not a hard hitter. Floyd is much more commanding than Pea ever was and durable.
Pea vs Rigo would be more competitive!!
Remember Pea was also a southpaw meaning much of Mannys attack would be nullified. Just by stance Pea would get the type of fight he wants, a boxing match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerPac would have definitely beaten Pea. Pea never had to face up to that sorta shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
And no, Pea was not a hard hitter. Floyd is much more commanding than Pea ever was and durable.
Pea vs Rigo would be more competitive!!
And his movement and reflexes!
Look how much trouble Tim Bradley gave Manny with his head movement (people think he lost the fight, which is fair, but he also made Manny miss a TON of punches), and look at how much trouble JMM gave Pac with his movement, range and counter punching.
Pac benefits from fighting bigger but SLOWER guys who are going to chase after him, guys he can pot shot and slip away from. Pea ain't that guy, and neither is Mayweather, which is why Mayweather would have beat his ass and why I think Pea would have gotten the upper hand on him.
Pernell would beat Floyd at lightweight he was untouchable. Pernell had great body work and he made a better welterweight than Manny did. Sweat pea also beat a more dangerous Vasquez than Floyd did Canelo.
I guess you missed Marquez having trouble finding a much lesser boxer in Norwood. He couldn't counter Bradley as well. Trying to counter Sweet P is useless. And did you see Morales get clearly outboxed by Raheem so much so that he looked confused? After that fight both Morales and Pac turned down a fight with Raheem. Watch the Whitaker/Chavez fight? Heck, even an old Sweet P outboxed and dropped DLH. DLH was running through everybody and outright refused to rematch the old version of Sweet P. Nobody figured out a prime Sweet P let alone a list of people(even adding an etc???) who clearly got outboxed by lesser boxers. There is no list of fighters in any era figuring out Sweet P. Dude was 5'6" with shoes on and went all the way up to fight the best guy at 154 and still never got figured out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Ok Sweet Pea can certainly hang with the best of them, no denying.
But a lot of these example fights you guys are talking about above, they could walk through and overwhelm Whitaker a lot.
I am not suggesting Marquez, Morales or even Pac would have no difficulties finding him, I expect hard fought rounds. But I do expect them to eventually get to him as well.
Let's forget about Floyd vs Pac for a minute, that's a different kettle of fish.
I can see Pac missing a ton of shots against Pea as well, but what I can't see is Pac being seriously hurt by Whitaker and I can't see Pea bending around Pac Man successfully for an entire 12 rounds!
This might surprise you but Pea sometimes did actually get hit you know!!
Clearly he fought some first rate opposition, he definitely deserves his place on a toplist but he was not invincible. A model of a defence fighter though, for sure!
In all those years through Whitaker's long career, the ONLY time he really got beat up was by a prime 5'11" Felix Tito Trinidad who was wrecking people.
Whitaker's 1st World Championship was in 1988, and by the 1999 Trinidad fight, 5'6" Whitaker was finished. It took him every bit of experience he had to see that final bell, and he fought a lot of rds with a broken jaw. That's the only time Whitaker ever took a beating.
For a chess match, Whitaker vs James Buddy McGirt for Buddy's World title.
Who said he was invincible other than just yourself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
F*<k, you're dumb ! :bashtroll4cx4:
Btw, Pea kicked his elderly mother out of the house he bought her in the 80s... he took it to court and kicked her out..
Once a crackhead, always a crackhead.. who does that ..:rolleyes:
I think Whitaker's slurred speech and brain damage is more from the years of cocaine than from Boxing. Camacho Sr too. Terrific defensive boxers, and it's amazing they were both functional at a World Class level despite their cocaine addictions. Burning the candle at both ends eventually caught up with them...
Even the most scandelous gangster I know and even the biggest criminal have soft spots for their mothers.. men are good to their mothers and that's the fuckin man code.. this POS junky evicted his mother from her own home? Fuck him I dont give a shit if he was a great fighter , he was probably coked up in some of his fights and that's cheating anyways.
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=perne...%20mother&sm=1
Yeah, I'm sure you read the entire story and both sides. I heard Kellerman go over the story and at first he thought the same as anybody would initially. But he said there really wasn't a choice because Whitaker is broke and many people lived in the house and nobody paid anything on the mortgage or the taxes and that it was going to foreclosure if he didn't sell it and plus he owed a lot in back taxes. And Kellerman also stated that Whitaker also tried to get them to just pay the taxes on the home but to no avail. So his choices were sell the home or lose it and no one gets anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Meanwhile...the thread is about how Sweet P would fair against today's era. And as far as cheating you can't be serious. Dude you support Margarito and try every excuse to cover up arguably the worst cheating attempt in boxing history. Everybody is or probably did cheat except the man who got caught outright attempting to fight with bricks. Okay, gotcha.
"Everyone is cheating except for the guy attempting to fight with bricks"
That was pretty funny Finito LOL ;)
Well anyway he's a great fighter and would do well today.
I just wouldn't bet on him personally against the better fighters of the present and recent eras.
Got nothing else really to add here.
And just to be clear I think it is a bad look regardless of what the whole truth is because before I heard the Kellerman's take I didn't like it as well. But you do have to at least check into and take in both sides no matter how it looks.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Pea dominates in any era he fights in at lightweight. Many pick Duran over him, and I think a valid argument can be made for Duran, but Pea NEVER lost at lightweight (forget the rip off vs Ramirez) and Duran did (only once and he avenged it). I think due to styles that in a head to head match up, pea outboxes and out quicks Duran.
As for Floyd vs Pea, each would be VERY hard for the other as both guys preferred big punchers and offensive fighters. Head to head it is VERY close and I can see a case for either guy to win, although I tend to lean towards Pea due to his southpaw style.
When talking about historical ranking, I feel that pea should rank higher than Floyd based off his (in my opinion) better quality of opponents and wins. Floyd has beaten some good opposition like Chico, Hatton, Castillo...etc., but I feel that prime Azumah, McGirt, Chavez...etc. was more impressive.
The funny thing about these threads is that people on here try and act like either guy is a definite win over the other, without question. These guys r both ATGs and it would be a phenomenal match up for people who appreciate the technical aspect of the sport.
Duran never fought anybody even close to Sweetpea's class at LW. Dejesus? Solid fighter, not even in Pea's league.
I don't mind people picking Duran, but anyone who thinks Duran would have stopped Pea is out of their fucking mind
Then its pretty obvious you never seen the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
No it just means I'm taking into account his lack of offensive traits as well as his escapology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Right Handed SouthpawThen its pretty obvious you never seen the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Honestly I think ppl like you tend to overrate him a bit. He is not near the level of Mayweather.
Max you are taking the piss or you are clueless, which is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerNo it just means I'm taking into account his lack of offensive traits as well as his escapology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Right Handed SouthpawThen its pretty obvious you never seen the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Honestly I think ppl like you tend to overrate him a bit. He is not near the level of Mayweather.
I might revise it down to just this.
I don't think Sweet Pea is near the same level as Mayweather. That is all.
I don't wanna degrade a fighter like Pea I actually like just for arguments sake so that is all.
I agree that Mayweather is a superior fighter to Sweet Pea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
I would argue that Pea is at least NEAR the same level as Mayweather, but that's just semantics so whatever.
How is Floyd superior to Sweet Pea? At every weight I believe Whitaker beats Floyd from lightweight to super welter.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI agree that Mayweather is a superior fighter to Sweet Pea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
I would argue that Pea is at least NEAR the same level as Mayweather, but that's just semantics so whatever.
Better athlete, better puncher, faster hands, faster reflexes, more well rounded skill set, ect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
When it comes to in-ring skill, there's Floyd and Ray Robinson, and then there's everyone else.