Would the great Sugar Ray be able to penetrate Winky's defense? Or would Winky edge him in the scorecards?
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Would the great Sugar Ray be able to penetrate Winky's defense? Or would Winky edge him in the scorecards?
I voted majority draw, with SRR winning on one scorecard and two judges having it a draw. BTW its a 12 rounder. 15 rounders are for savages.
I guess the result would lie somewhere inbetween the first and second turpin fight.
Your right, a draw is well on the cards.
Ray by ud. Turtle Wright just would not be active enough and he looked a little plump and soft at 160 whereas Ray grew into 160 perfectly like he was meant to go there. 12 or 15. It makes no difference.Fight to the finish would be interesting. Winky would get stopped imo. Lol@ 15 being for savages. If we keep going the way we are going helmet wearing toddlers today in the sandbox will be watching 6 round title fights with one pound gloves. You do know that the only reason they switched to 12 is because it fit perfectly to the one hour format on television and had nothing to do with safety right?
They claimed safety but it was a crock. Had they been truthful and said it was based on economics there may have been a revolt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
You could be right about the fight.
But in terms of 15 rounders... who needs them? Who cares what the reason they switched over for was. It doesn't take a scientist, a doctor, or Bo Jackson to know that getting punched in the head = bad, but getting punched in the head when you are tired and dehydrated = worse, which is what happens in those late rounds.
Fighting 12 rounds is hard enough on a boxer's body and brain, 15 is too much to ask IMO.
BTW I find it funny (and this isn't at you personally just in general) that boxers are goaded on to fight 15 rounds instead of 12 like they're wimps, by guys who (in general) probably wouldn't be able to run a mile without having a heart attack or stroke. Just saying.
Times evolve man... I'm sure when they started fighting 12 and 15 rounders, the old timers who fought (or watched) unlimited round boxing matches thought these 15 round guys were a bunch of sissies.
Who needs them? We do. I do. I bet Hagler wanted it also before signing the fight away. All the bullshit cards and fights that needed the real championship rounds is enough for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
You could be right about the fight.
But in terms of 15 rounders... who needs them? Who cares what the reason they switched over for was. It doesn't take a scientist, a doctor, or Bo Jackson to know that getting punched in the head = bad, but getting punched in the head when you are tired and dehydrated = worse, which is what happens in those late rounds.
Fighting 12 rounds is hard enough on a boxer's body and brain, 15 is too much to ask IMO.
BTW I find it funny (and this isn't at you personally just in general) that boxers are goaded on to fight 15 rounds instead of 12 like they're wimps, by guys who (in general) probably wouldn't be able to run a mile without having a heart attack or stroke. Just saying.
You are right though in a way. Today's fighters are gassed after six with just 12,they would never be able to fight for 45 minutes. So much for all that fancy sport science, nutrition and technique.
Who's gassed after the 6th lol? Way to generalize haha...Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I think 36 minutes of intense combat is long enough. Maybe less guys will end with pudding for brains when they retire. Too much stress on the body and brain.
Fighters today are a bunch of spoiled brat premadonnas who fight once or twice a year for seven figure paydays and that’s all they fight for save a handful of guys. Most are breathing through the mouth after four rounds and running on empty after that. They don’t need a hill to climb because the rewards come w/o the risk. Its bss ackward. They couldn’t fight 15.
Doesn't even get into the fact too that 12 rounders are generally more exciting because guys can freely exert more energy per round without having to save up for those 3 extra rounds. So in the end you have more exciting rounds, without guys being cautious and worrying about blowing their load too early.
Who has the world record for the 400m dash? Or who won the gold medal in 2012 for the triathalon, or whatever the marathon event was? I doubt anyone here could answer that without googling it.
But when you ask who's the fastest man, who won the 100m dash, people will immediately say USAIN BOLT. Because it's all about that explosive athleticism. Nobody cares who can run 20 miles the fastest.
^Real talk
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...lf-d488d6k.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Yeaaaaah, listen here sonny boy, back in the day they were real fighters ya see, not like these girly men today. Joe Louis would swim the English Channel for endurance and eat tree bark and drink gasoline for nutrition. Henry Armstrong would jump in front of buses to make sure his body was truly in shape. THIS WAS A TIME WHEN MEN WERE MEN, not like these sissy boys with their protein shakes and their HIIT training.
Michael Johnson holds the world record for 400 metres. I didn't need to google that but I would the marathon winner.
Oh that's that bum who got destroyed by Donovan Bailey in the challenge race hahahahQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
lol... calling Johnson a "bum"
Saddo members.
Being the best at 400m is like being the best boxing cruiserweight... who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFcjJezL7lo
I remember this because I was 10 years old and it was a great point of pride for us Canadians. The chicken American bum was losing and pulled up like a wimp.
Lol look there is nothing beneficial to 12 round fights vs 15? Nothing. The decision to go 12 verses 15 had nothing to do with the sport or the safety of the combatants. That actually makes the move even more despicable and merit lacking. Like they give a shit. The only thing it has done is further water down an already root rotted plant and given us bogus cards and fights where even 1 more round seemed necessary. You are a cool dude and one hell of a good poster and knowledgeable fan but you and I are polar opposites on this particular issue. Perhaps you grew up in the 12 era and I the 15.
Anyway Ray beats Wink no matter the rounds.
You're probably right on the fact that they changed it for their own reasons and not the safety of the fighters, but regardless of why they changed it the science is there to say the more rounds you go, the more dangerous it is for the fighter. When a fighter is exhausted, he's more apt to take more punishment. And you have to remember that the brain is protected by a thin layer of spinal fluid which is composed of, like everything else, mostly water, so when you're dehydrated your brain takes a lot more damage because it doesn't have the full cushion it usually does (which is why they found that a lot of deaths/serious injuries happened to guys who cut a lot of weight).Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I just don't see the importance of the 15 rounds. What can you accomplish in 45 minutes that you can't in 36? I just don't get it, other than the "nostalgia" aspect I guess.
Winky wins by a hair.. and Ray Leonard at WW is better than Robinson..
Spot on. I know it's not cool to wax poetic about back in the day...but fighters today, even with "advances" in nutrition and training, just don't have the same stamina as guys from the past. That is why i find it absolutely preposterous when some people say for example that the "bigger stronger" heavyweights today would just demolish the ones from the past. These guys have no fucking stamina. Aside from a handful of guys (Floyd, Hopkins, etc.) who are disciplined and have tremendous conditioning year round....i don't see too many fighters these days lasting 15 rounds. And lets not forget...cats back then weren't only fighting more rounds....they where throwing and receiving more punches. Non of this i'll take a round off bs or i'll fight in spurts. Also, now....you have way too many fighters who have no business being in a certain weight class...but try to make that weight so they can have the size advantage come fight night. How often have we seen fighters just say "fuck it" to the weight limit these days. It's disgraceful. As far as Sugar Ray vs. Winky....Winky would be tasting the canvas.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Who are all these fighters with no stamina? Name names and give examples... or just throw out a blanket statement with no factual evidence, whatever floats your boat.
Johnson was a legend, who was the Canadian that beat him again?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerBeing the best at 400m is like being the best boxing cruiserweight... who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFcjJezL7lo
I remember this because I was 10 years old and it was a great point of pride for us Canadians. The chicken American bum was losing and pulled up like a wimp.
Winky isn't beating ray Robinson. Ray Leonard isn't beating Napoles or Zivic or Emile Griffith, much less Robinson. I think Luis Rodriguez beats leonard, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Those 15 round fights were the best. The 'Championship Rounds', 11-15, told the difference between pros and pretenders.
I agree Robinson beat Winky, Leonard does not beat the real Sugar Ray at welter.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldWinky isn't beating ray Robinson. Ray Leonard isn't beating Napoles or Zivic or Emile Griffith, much less Robinson. I think Luis Rodriguez beats leonard, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Those 15 round fights were the best. The 'Championship Rounds', 11-15, told the difference between pros and pretenders.
Grey, on a second thought, I agree that Robinson beats WInky.. I just didnt want to romanticize about these old school fighters so I said Winky. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI agree Robinson beat Winky, Leonard does not beat the real Sugar Ray at welter.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldWinky isn't beating ray Robinson. Ray Leonard isn't beating Napoles or Zivic or Emile Griffith, much less Robinson. I think Luis Rodriguez beats leonard, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Those 15 round fights were the best. The 'Championship Rounds', 11-15, told the difference between pros and pretenders.
Winky doesnt throw enough punches to win. He would hide behind that high guard and get outworked to a decision. No KO though...
MAster, pshhhh Leonard doesn't beat Robinson at Welter? based on what? Listen, if you can get hold of Robinsons WW fights during his prime, let me know cuz I havent found one yet..
I can only judge off of what Ive seen and Ive seen more than enough of Leonard..
Winky was a bipolar defensive master, and that's a compliment. He gave up range and often walked in with that heel to toe flat step but was buttoned tight up like a beachhead in France of 44'. Loved how he tucked his elbows but shot off the jab with hooks. He was a sleeper to be respected well before he got his just due. But he's not beating Ray speed and accuracy who would pepper that turtle shell, cracking it ever so gradually for a unanimous win. He would not be mesmerized on the end of that southpaw jab and would keep him turning.
I say i wish they would bring back the 15 rounders i mean Leonard got some of his best wins as did Robinson in the latter rounds. I mean if people are better athletes now they should have no problem with extra rounds i mean only in championship fights also they gloves are to big now as well.
Im just glad Winky isnt fighting anymore cuz he's literally the most boring fighter ever..
I watch some of his old fights and find myself appreciating Andre Ward and Rigo more and more. Stinky be so boring he makes those two guys look hella exciting and shit.
I remember those dreadful moments where I had to sit through his dull fights on ROy Jones undercards.. I fuckin hated it..
like wow, stinky even makes Bernard look like Gatti.. That's how boring he was.
Stinky could be fighting the 50ft giant woman with her titties all hangin out and I still wouldnt watch that shit.
Wlad is more exciting than Stinky.. That's how much i think of him.
Winky easily and obviously!
It's not whether they can or not, it's whether they should be forced to. I've never heard any reasoning for it other than the fact that guys used to fight 15 rounders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
In a sport that's notoriously for destroying guys physically and mentally, why would anyone want to make it even more taxing?
And to me it makes for a more boring fight because guys are going to pace themselves more and that means less energy expended per round.
I don't see who wins by making fights 15 rounds, honestly.
Show me a 15 rounder that was as explosive as a 12 rounder? 15 rounds = featherfists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Specifically, show me fights in the 15 round era that actually went 15 rounds that did not feature featherfists? Hard isn't it ;)
Are you freakin insane or do you have a comedy writer? Perhaps you snort a few rails of bath salts before you log on. It does make sense empirically what you said above. I mean to even ask the question in bold begs several others. The problem is to pose them and facts that would wipe what you said off the map requires energy. In this case though and again based the bold it would be wasted energy. To even make such a statement hidden by a question tells me everything I need to know and here is my conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerShow me a 15 rounder that was as explosive as a 12 rounder? 15 rounds = featherfists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Specifically, show me fights in the 15 round era that actually went 15 rounds that did not feature featherfists? Hard isn't it ;)
You believe that boxing started on Nov 16-1996 and because you believe that, anything you say following it is just as unreasonable in hypothetical comparisons. The proof of THIS what can politely be called misguided dogma is omnipotent in every post you make on the general topic.
Alright then...carry on.
Johnson is a great. An absolute all-time-great.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerBeing the best at 400m is like being the best boxing cruiserweight... who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFcjJezL7lo
I remember this because I was 10 years old and it was a great point of pride for us Canadians. The chicken American bum was losing and pulled up like a wimp.
I admire him because I was of the similar stock as him. A strong runner - not the fastest but my legs never gave up.
Michael Johnson was wasted over anything less than 200m. Watching him kick in to gear over that last 150m of a 400m was just beautiful to watch.
Have you ever done 400m? It fucking hurts like hell!!! It's too short to jog and too long to sprint. It's all about speed endurance. Something you only touch on over 200m.
Have you seen Usain Bolt's face during 200m sprints compared to 100m sprints? Even HE could never compete at 400m. He'd loose his arse halfway round the track.
I remember Alen Johnson, the American hurdler took part in the 4x400m relay back in Colin Jackson's demise (2000ish) and that nigga looked like he wanted to DIE afterwards!! He was absolutely finished.
It took Usain Bolt's unearthly speed to break Johnson's 200m record. I'm not sure when his 400m is ever going to go?
Robinson was the ultimate fighter at welterweight from what I have read about him and anything he did at middleweight was just a bonus he was not the greatest. Leonard is number 2.
its weird that this thread has so many serious comments for what i perceived as a joke thread.
I only want to comment here that of all the distances here in interval sprints, whether running or punching a bag, a 400 is imo the hardest of all and repeated series of them produces the overall fittest athletes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusJohnson is a great. An absolute all-time-great.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerBeing the best at 400m is like being the best boxing cruiserweight... who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFcjJezL7lo
I remember this because I was 10 years old and it was a great point of pride for us Canadians. The chicken American bum was losing and pulled up like a wimp.
I admire him because I was of the similar stock as him. A strong runner - not the fastest but my legs never gave up.
Michael Johnson was wasted over anything less than 200m. Watching him kick in to gear over that last 150m of a 400m was just beautiful to watch.
Have you ever done 400m? It fucking hurts like hell!!! It's too short to jog and too long to sprint. It's all about speed endurance. Something you only touch on over 200m.
Have you seen Usain Bolt's face during 200m sprints compared to 100m sprints? Even HE could never compete at 400m. He'd loose his arse halfway round the track.
I remember Alen Johnson, the American hurdler took part in the 4x400m relay back in Colin Jackson's demise (2000ish) and that nigga looked like he wanted to DIE afterwards!! He was absolutely finished.
It took Usain Bolt's unearthly speed to break Johnson's 200m record. I'm not sure when his 400m is ever going to go?
They absolutely tax all 3 energy systems virutally equally. You can run the 400 as an all out sprint, I used to do them often. They leave your legs burning with acid and your lungs completely exhausted unlike shorter sprints, unlike distance.
How do you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Finito accepted Winky would lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by amatHow do you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Michael Johnson got whipped by Donovan Bailey, and he should have had the advantage because it was 150m dash with a turn in the track that Donovan (being a 100m sprinter) wasn't as used to doing.
So Michael Johnson is a BUM! He ran the 400m because it's a weak division, like boxing's cruiserweight lol.
Who is greater Johnson or what was Canadian guys name again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Donovan! He whipped him head to head.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWho is greater Johnson or what was Canadian guys name again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Donovan competed in the event that REALLY mattered... 100m dash.