Re: Ranking the HW champs
According to Klittards, getting stopped when you're bleeding like a stuck pig and in danger of going blind in one eye means you've never suffered a clear loss.
You gotta love the mental gymnastics Klittards do to spin their heroes' losses.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Based on record, heart, opponents, longevity, world wide appeal, income generated,
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
Jack Johnson
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Evander Holyfield
Re: Ranking the HW champs
1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. George Foreman
5. Joe Frazier
6. Marciano
7. Holyfield
8. Larry Holmes
9. Jack Johnson
10. Klits
Re: Ranking the HW champs
You cannot have two klits together. Choose one.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
I've heard the mantra for Ali and Louis before and I've not much problem with Holmes on the list. Please tell me why Jack Johnson deserves to be on that list?
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
I've heard the mantra for Ali and Louis before and I've not much problem with Holmes on the list. Please tell me why Jack Johnson deserves to be on that list?
He is there specifically and with the sole purpose to annoy you. :)
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Now I'm not claiming that Wladimir Klitschko could beat up all others but I feel that atleast the following needs to be addressed.
Wladimir Klitschko does have the best HW record of all time. I can't see how it could be judged otherwise! 61 wins out of 64 fights and such a high KO% against one of the highest average opponent weights and opponents with one of the highest quality of records is hard to deny. It's all there in the books if any one cares to read before discrediting. And all the while winning round after round after round without barely even getting hit!
The other 2 truly special mentions in terms of achievements would be..
Vitali Klitschko (surprise) for similarly fighting probably the heftiest opponents and ones with among the highest quality of records. For never suffering a clear loss, for never being behind on points, for never losing more than 2 rounds in any fight, for never even being knocked off his feet let alone out!
And..
Lennox Lewis. For clearing out arguably the toughest division in history and defeating every opponent he ever faced and wasting the 2 other elite champions while he was at it, ducked by another and stopping his successor on a cut.
These 3 to me must take top spot on a toplist.
What 3 boxers do others see as top and most importantly... WHY???
Records are for DJs, weights are for the Gym.
It's the people he fights that's the issue, Pianeta was 28-0 when he fought Klitschko. That Bumps the whole 'best average record' thing up but CLEARLY he didn't deserve to be in the same sport as Klitschko, let alone the same ring.
No one is saying he is ducking everyone as he has fought some good fighters, but his voluntary fights are disgraceful.
Who knows though, maybe if the HW division was better currently, he'd have the option to fight top, top fighters more.
He's good, but he will NEVER win the hearts of true boxing fans for his courage, determination, victories, etc.
He has skill, but he also has a record built on half decent fighters, half nobody's, and at this stage of his career he should NEVER fight a nobody, every fight should be the highest possible rated fighter he can find.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
The Klitschko's are ATG HW's. There's no disputing it. Whether you like them or not, they've been dominant in their divisions like few others have been.
The Klitschkos and Lennox Lewis are the best HW's of the last 20 years.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Ali said he was the greatest....Joe Louis' record PROVES he's the greatest 25 consecutive successful title defenses a feat not matched by anyone else. Rocky Marciano deserves a mention as he was undefeated.
History will judge the Klitschko's the same as it has judged everyone else. People will overrate them and people will underrate them. The fact is they have both been very dominant champions and that is something that cannot be debated. People love to bring up their losses like no other heavyweight champion ever had a loss before, I guess getting KO'd by Corrie Sanders is WORSE than getting KO'd by Buster Douglas or Hasim Rahman or Oliver McCall or whoever. 2 losses, 3 losses....not many considering Ali has 5 losses, Lennox Lewis has 2 and a draw, Larry Holmes has 6, Mike Tyson has 6, Holyfield has 10, Jack Johnson had 11 and 8 draws, Patterson had 8, Joe Louis had 3, Frazier had 4, Foreman had 5, Dempsey had 6 and 9 draws......boxers lose, it happens...but to be able to rebound and become so dominant is impressive. Other fighters have an idea that they CAN beat you but implementing a fight plan to get that result has become very difficult.
You look at Joe Louis...he lost to Max Schmelling in 1936 and he was pretty much just picked apart to the point where he looked average. Recovering from that Joe Louis didn't lose another match until 1950....that makes Louis' run of 25 consecutive successful title defenses that much more impressive.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
What would you say was Wlad's greatest win? I think he's got a good record and as a fighter would be competitive in any era but he doesn't have the staple win like lots of greats have.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bo-Bo24
What would you say was Wlad's greatest win? I think he's got a good record and as a fighter would be competitive in any era but he doesn't have the staple win like lots of greats have.
He hasn't had "battles" or "wars" in the ring but his record is not devoid of clout. Undefeated Sam Peter (and the rematch), Ruslan Chagaev, Sultan Ibragimov, Chris Byrd x2, Lemon Brewster rematch...he's beaten some very good boxers.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Ali said he was the greatest....Joe Louis' record PROVES he's the greatest 25 consecutive successful title defenses a feat not matched by anyone else. Rocky Marciano deserves a mention as he was undefeated.
You look at Joe Louis...he lost to Max Schmelling in 1936 and he was pretty much just picked apart to the point where he looked average. Recovering from that Joe Louis didn't lose another match until 1950....that makes Louis' run of 25 consecutive successful title defenses that much more impressive.
Ali did more than just say he was the greatest, he beat great fighters and champions.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Lewis is better than either Klit. He beat Tua, Golota, Holyfield, Bruno, Ruddock, Morrison, and Briggs.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VG_Addict
Lewis is better than either Klit. He beat Tua, Golota, Holyfield, Bruno, Ruddock, Morrison, and Briggs.
And those guys really weren't around for either brother to fight prime v prime soooo yeah. I mean yes the opportunities other fighters had maybe with a deeper division albeit with fighters who ran just as hot & cold as anyone in today's division may have been better before the Klitschko's but you can't knock the guys for fighting and beating everyone they can in this current division. It still takes talent and focus to win...a little slip here or there could be the difference between another win and a humiliating defeat.
I think Lennox Lewis' career really helped both brothers because they saw how he recovered from the McCall loss to achieve great things and also how he got a little complacent and got beat by Rahman, but then turned around and gave one of his most impressive victories in the rematch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Anyone except Chris Byrd, I know I'm alone here but he always reminded me of a very smart monkey imitating a boxer. Yes, I know, he had some good wins but it was hard for me to watch him, I can't help it.
Byrd was unorthodox as a fighter especially as a heavyweight. He focused on the sweet science, hit and don't get hit. He was very talented and difficult to catch clean for anyone. He was one of the best title holders next to the Klitschko's after Lewis' retirement. He defended his title very well and was never afraid of a match...Tua, Ibeabuchi, Vitali, Wlad....he fought anyone even the really dangerous fighters. He wasn't great to watch because he was never going to KO anyone, but I appreciated his skills.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
I think Byrd is severely underrated. A lot of guys didn't want to get in the ring with him.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I think Byrd is severely underrated. A lot of guys didn't want to get in the ring with him.
Before going back down in weight which really hurt his ability to take a punch Chris only got stopped by the very biggest punchers who had the means to deliver their blows with accuracy. He was a very slick fighter and I agree, he's criminally underrated...a prime Chris Byrd these days would have no qualms about fighting a Deontay Wilder or Bermane Stiverne...in fact in his pomp he would have probably beaten those guys.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
What if Lewis fought Byrd, and beat him? Where would you rank Lewis all time?
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VG_Addict
What if Lewis fought Byrd, and beat him? Where would you rank Lewis all time?
Lewis would have beaten Byrd and Ruiz, he gave them the titles not because he was afraid of them but because he wanted to fight bigger and better fighters. Belts meant nothing after he unified the titles and beat the best/dangerous fighters out there.
Re: Ranking the HW champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VG_Addict
What if Lewis fought Byrd, and beat him? Where would you rank Lewis all time?
I'm not sure, Lewis is an all-time great even without that...he was on another level at that time anyway, I don't know if it would really help him all that much just because they offered nothing but the belts they held which they got from Lennox saying "I don't care to defend these against you guys". I'd say Lennox is top 10 pretty easily...he beat the best of his era and before in Holyfield and Tyson, he had Bowe run away from him, he took out various tough challengers: Mercer, Morrison, Tua, Mavoric, Golota, Grant, Briggs....the hiccups on his record don't matter much just because he ALWAYS rebounded and that's important. When someone "figured out" Mike Tyson, that pretty much ended his time as "Baddest Man on the Planet" he was still very tough to beat but no longer the force of nature he once was.
I always wanted to see John Ruiz vs Lennox, Vitali, or Wlad.....Ruiz was boring as shit, but he would fight until you took his heart. He would never make a fight look pretty but he wouldn't give up at all. Plus I kind of always wanted to see someone (other than David fucking Haye) just absolutely crush him. Ditto goes for Nicolay Valuev who just avoided any power puncher in the division bar Haye (again, fuck that bastard I hate him).
