Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.
But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?
You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?
The question can be further extended to other boxers...
Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?
Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?
None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Its because the HWs have become bigger, more athletic and fluid for these smaller guys to deal with.
Back in the primitive era, the average HWs were below 6"3 so it was easy for the Louiss and the marcianos to compete but today we are living in a whole different era with different breeds.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
I still have drinks with my old basketball coach from high school and this dude is always trying to convince me that Bill Russell is better than Hakeem Olajuan. Well I tell him no he's fuckin not with all due respect lol.
Bill rusell would be lucky to be the 6th man in the modern NBA team, probably a bench warmer.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Guys like Byrd and Chambers found success at about 205-215lbs but sure enough, they were defensive masters. They stole rounds by making their opponents miss all night and scoring with pitty pat punches and were never a serious threat from a KO perspective.
This is in stark contrast to olden guys of those eras who were considered "Punchers" or otherwise lead with their faces.
I understand the reverence but not the favourable comparisons with current fighters.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
The first truly serious opponent Evander Holyfield faced at HW, Riddick Bowe, he weighed 205lbs. That was a steroid pumped 205lbs, not like the 205 we used to see at "HW" previously.
Before that Evander was not really respected as the great champion he'd become yet and most still viewed Mike Tyson as the rightful champ.
At 205lbs Evander was seriously challenged by Bowe. It was a wise decision for him to bulk up to 215 for his rematch in which he scored a narrow victory.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Because we have a 6'6 240+ version of a backfoot plodder ??? Chambers a defensive 'master' ;D Come on man. Good thing he dropped to his "natural" cruiser division to be schooled by some unknown at his own game. If only he could break eggs with a shot eh
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
OTNB also known as the BSS. Bert Sugar Syndrome.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
I have made a point not to argue strictly with size elsewhere.
This thread was heavily oriented toward the size thing, sure, of course there are ppl with greater natural ability, or greater skill set etc etc.
One of the main reasons the Klitschko's were so good when other HW's aren't though which should be obvious is their strong amateur pedigree.
We see this also with Muhammad Ali, he was already a very experienced boxer by the time he became a pro!
A lot of these giant boxers today up and coming who think they can one day dominate like LEwis or Klits don't have such a grounding like that. They have the Hasim Rahman syndrome. A good boxer, a champion, but his late start and short ammy career did not afford him some of the intuitive skills that the others had, the simple things are still cerebral to them.
Anthony Joshua is one of those. His size will take him far. But I'd be surprised if we will see the same level of dominance from him if he does make it!
I also think that the size and power punching of modern fighters has had a profound effect on the skills of modern fighters.
Yesteryear it was perfectly acceptable to take shots all night long, Marciano did, Ali did, Frazier did, even Louis was a bit of a sucker for a right hand at times.
Today, fighters by necessity MUST develop a defensive game because they can't be taking those kind of shots anymore.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.
But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?
You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?
The question can be further extended to other boxers...
Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?
Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?
None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!
A monkey can answer that question. How the hell can a 185 pounder dominate the heavyweight division of today when we have 6 foot 7 250 pounders in there?
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.
But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?
You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?
The question can be further extended to other boxers...
Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?
Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?
None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!
Guys nowadays are better trained and have better diets... so they move faster and quicker. Plus these guys nowadays, while athletic, can't really fight... it's a smash em game in the Heavies. You hit or get ko'd. Simple.
Joe Louis could REALLY fight... the last we have seen with "smaller" guys fighting in the Heavies was with the Tyson and Holyfield era- it ended with Moorer- and Moorer and Holyfield weren't really "that" small.
You probably won't see a Heavy win a title that's under 6 foot 2 and under 230 pounds in a very long, LONG time.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
food is cheaper, average person is bigger, taller and unfortunately fatter.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) I got one for you WANKER. ;)
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.
But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?
You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?
The question can be further extended to other boxers...
Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?
Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?
None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!
Sir, you are what we OTNBs call a YK (Young Knothead), why in the hell would anyone try to answer or explain anything so damned obvious. Yes, some of us OTNBs drink too much, or get our MEDS mixed up, or our bodies hurt and we want to argue, or do a little trolling when we run on about the sorry state of the heavies and the heavies themselves, but do you really think they can't see the difference in the size and weight of the modern heavy and what that means?
You used to hear "a good big man will beat a good small man" when talking about a difference of 20lbs, if you talk about the modern heavies compared to earlier heavies the difference can be 60lbs!
There were a couple of exceptions Willard and Carnera, both dismissed for their size with Carnera thought to have shady connections.
There is noway for you to come out ahead if you start calling Louis, Marciano, Ali and Frazier bums, you are asking everyone to dismiss the rest of what you have to say as more BS, in my opinion.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
I'm not calling them bums, they all had great records didn't they, they were all world champs at one time.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
I would Hope they would not lose when the have steroids, height, reach and about 50 pounds on the fighter shit kinda no brainier. This does not make them better because they were bigger just means they could beat guys who were division above them and that's about it different eras really.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
I'm not calling them bums, they all had great records didn't they, they were all world champs at one time.
Sir, read what you write, how do you expect some of that to be interpreted?
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Again just because you are heavier doesnt mean you hit harder. Fury 50 pounds heavier then guys who hit harder then him. You also have to take into account that in the olden days being the heavyweight champion made you king of the world. You had a lot more of the best athletes trying to be a boxer. Nowadays a lot of the top athletes are going for other sports instead. This shows why pretty useless boxers can have some success.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Because you learn to exploit certain traits better as time goes on.
This is like saying "Why isn't a Greek the smartest person in the world? Plato and Aristotle were!" Surely you can't deny brilliance during their respective eras same with Louis, Ali, Rocky, et al....also better healthcare means bigger people.
This thread is fairly disrespectful of some great boxers.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
You probably won't see a Heavy win a title that's under 6 foot 2 and under 230 pounds in a very long, LONG time.
I think in the post-Klitschko era...we'll see 6'2 220lb champs again.
I tend to agree with Emanuel Steward when he said most heavyweights 6'5 & up lack the coordination to be champions...at least long reigning champs. Most of the "Super" heavyweights today lack the coordination & defensive skills of a Lennox or a K Bros.
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TigerFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
You probably won't see a Heavy win a title that's under 6 foot 2 and under 230 pounds in a very long, LONG time.
I think in the post-Klitschko era...we'll see 6'2 220lb champs again.
I tend to agree with Emanuel Steward when he said most heavyweights 6'5 & up lack the coordination to be champions...
at least long reigning champs. Most of the "Super" heavyweights today lack the coordination & defensive skills of a Lennox or a K Bros.
I agree with the fact that the taller the boxer, the more challenging the balance. It is harder to become a smooth and poised boxer for a taller guy than a short one.
But I do not ever believe a 6'2" 220lb champ will ever be dominant again. Last time we saw that was Mike Tyson (Holyfield was never a dominant champ).
These days it is not insurmountable to train a superheavy but what IS necessary for a long reign is that they have practiced boxing there whole lives. Late comers to the sport might succeed in getting to the top but I doubt they'd last!
Re: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?
I think it also very difficult for a human to be 250 lbs of muscle and have the cardio vascualr abiltiy to maintain a good constant effort without tiring yourself out, it takes a lot of oxygen to power such muscles.. I assume it takes huge dedication and training to be able to be 250lbs of muscle and be able to keep up a fast pace... I could be well wrong though.. I think it takes a special guy to be so big and so fit.... that or blood boosting drugs:S
