Do you agree with Buncies assessement, Floyd lacking a Frazer/Duran to be TBE?

Hey guys, not posted in forever but after a great night of boxing thought i'd pop in.

Must say I agree with Buncies assessment regarding Floyds new phrase TBE (The best ever)

Whilst like most I think he is one of the best, but can't compete with some of the past greats simply because he hasn't had a arch rival. Well he did have one in Pac 4-5 years ago but it didn't materialise.

What do you guys think? what can he do from here to improve his legacy? Do you think because of failing to fight Pac it has hurt his legacy?

Definitely not fighting Manny hurts his legacy. Floyd is a great fighter and beaten quality fighters. I still hate the prick.

TBE is a rubbish phrase.. TBE my ass..

When we talk about ATG fighters such as Duran, Leonard, and Ali, we can't think of any superfights that they missed out on..especially when the timing was perfect, available and ready..

Floyd blatantly ducked two people in Margarito and Pacquiao. He can be forgiven for Margarito whatever but the fact that he refused to face the best fighter of his generation is a fuckin travesty.

Floyd is all business.. fuck his legacy

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

TBE is a rubbish phrase.. TBE my ass..

When we talk about ATG fighters such as Duran, Leonard, and Ali, we can't think of any superfights that they missed out on..especially when the timing was perfect, available and ready..

Floyd blatantly ducked two people in Margarito and Pacquiao. He can be forgiven for Margarito whatever but the fact that he refused to face the best fighter of his generation is a fuckin travesty.

Floyd is all business.. fuck his legacy

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I think he avoided Cotto at 140lb too.

To be fair to him the Alvarez fight was a mega fight, and Alvarez was huge and talented.

I don't agree with it, personally.

I think that logic has been used to discriminate against a few guys over the years (Roy Jones in particular) whose only crime was being too good and too untouchable; of achieving a level of excellence that was so "head and shoulders" above all their peers that they never had a true rival.

SRR has been considered TBE for many decades. Who was his rival? Jake Lamotta? What was so great about Jake Lamotta? Why was he any better than Canelo or Maidana?

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

TBE is a rubbish phrase.. TBE my ass..

When we talk about ATG fighters such as Duran, Leonard, and Ali, we can't think of any superfights that they missed out on..especially when the timing was perfect, available and ready..

Floyd blatantly ducked two people in Margarito and Pacquiao. He can be forgiven for Margarito whatever but the fact that he refused to face the best fighter of his generation is a fuckin travesty.

Floyd is all business.. fuck his legacy

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I think he avoided Cotto at 140lb too.

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You know what bro, I got to disagree with that one.. Floyd called him out a couple times around 05-06 and Kneeguel and co declined claiming that they weren't ready..

Mikay, Floyd-Alvarez was not a " Mega fight ".. It was a big event based on the popularity of the fighters but in reality that was not some mega fight..

ducking is the word

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

TBE is a rubbish phrase.. TBE my ass..

When we talk about ATG fighters such as Duran, Leonard, and Ali, we can't think of any superfights that they missed out on..especially when the timing was perfect, available and ready..

Floyd blatantly ducked two people in Margarito and Pacquiao. He can be forgiven for Margarito whatever but the fact that he refused to face the best fighter of his generation is a fuckin travesty.

Floyd is all business.. fuck his legacy

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I think he avoided Cotto at 140lb too.

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You know what bro, I got to disagree with that one.. Floyd called him out a couple times around 05-06 and Kneeguel and co declined claiming that they weren't ready..

Mikay, Floyd-Alvarez was not a " Mega fight ".. It was a big event based on the popularity of the fighters but in reality that was not some mega fight..

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Did not realise that Cotto turned it down, thought Floyd went for the easier option of Getting than Cotto or Tszyu.

Floyd beating Canelo was quality.

Nope, because the top prime competition was there all along, and the dude just wouldn't fight them at their best.

There could've been many Great match-ups.

Damn straight, since 2002 through 2011 when Mayweather finally decided to start fighting some top young guys. In those 9 years, Ricky Hatton was the sole top prime guy that Mayweather fought.

Paul Spadafora
Paul Williams
Kostya Tszyu
Antonio Margarito
Manny Pacquiao
Shane Mosely before he was a shot fighter.
Miguel Cotto before he was on the slide.

Hell, when Floyd was at 130 lbs, 4 lbs less at 126 lbs was:
Erik Morales
Prince Naseem Hamed
Marco Antonio Barrera
Juan Manuel Marquez


It's good that Mayweather has recently been fighting top young prime fighters like Guerrerro, Saul Alvarez, Ortiz, Maidana... but outstanding competition was there all along for 9 years previous, and he wouldn't have any of them except for Hatton.

Instead Mayweather spent all those years boxing:
jesus chavez
carlos hernandez
sosa
n’dou
demarcus corley
bruseles
baldomir
judah
a washed-up Gatti
a washed-up Mitchell

Who is Frazer ? do you mean the guy from Dad's Army ?

If Floyd had taken more 50 / 50 fights he wouldn't of had a perfect record. He's beaten a lot of greats of his generation but never during their prime years. If he fought Manny now it would be a great name on his resume but it wouldn't be the achievement it could of been 5 years ago.

Yeah this I sorta agree with to an extent.

Floyd has some terrific wins. De La Hoya, Marquez, Alvarez among many others too.

But the reluctance to face Pac destroys his legacy.

Leonard faced the best there was in his era and came out top overall.

Although I don't rate Ali's performances in that way at all he must be credited that he did FACE all the best fighters of his era.

Floyd dropped the ball badly avoiding Pac.

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Originally Posted by MIKAY

To be fair to him the Alvarez fight was a mega fight, and Alvarez was huge and talented.

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Agree. Alvarez is Mayweather's best win imo!!

For fuck sakes people saying he avoided Pacquiao.

There is enough anecdotal evidence in videos with interviews from people like Alex Ariza who was actually training Pacquiao to say that Pacquiao wanted no part of the fight.

Then you have the questions about the contract, including if Manny tests positive can it be kept secret! Roach questioning what Manny was being given in milk shakes.

Pacquiao is a sham! However... I do agree that like Lennox Lewis felt he had to have a win over Tyson, no matter hw far gone he was that Floyd needs Pacquiaos name on his record.

Pacquiaos tax debts also need the fight so he can try to break even.;D

Floyd could then turn to middle weight. He's moved up and fought and beaten the biggest names at light middle twice. His last one was one of his easiest wins. Sergio Martinez is very beatable for Floyd and on fight night hes the same weight as Maidana! Smaller than Alvarez! So no huge weight advantage but THE man at middle.

Personally I would have no interest in watching Maidana again. He pushed Floyd back but caught him clean with barely fuck all. There was zero chance of Floyd getting hurt. Maybe to the back of the head but we need to see Floyd with someone skiled. Kahn would hold and spoil and it would be ugly.

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He DOES have a nemesis, it's been Manny Pacquiao, and 99.9% of anybody boxing knows it. It's always been Pacquiao!

@ross Of course he bloody ducked Floyd, I have heard it all and it's all nonsense, everybody wants the fight except Floyd. Manny ASKED him for the bloody fight. Even the great Muhammad Ali has just gone on record urging him to take the fight.

Floyd has been Manny's goal from day dot!

After what we just witnessed how can you even write off Manny now!?

Bowe and Floyd are biggest quackers in history. The pure definition of the word "duck".

I'm not saying he ducked every fighter, I don't believe any of that, but he shamefully did Pac.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He DOES have a nemesis, it's been Manny Pacquiao, and 99.9% of anybody boxing knows it. It's always been Pacquiao!

@ross Of course he bloody ducked Floyd, I have heard it all and it's all nonsense, everybody wants the fight except Floyd. Manny ASKED him for the bloody fight. Even the great Muhammad Ali has just gone on record urging him to take the fight.

Floyd has been Manny's goal from day dot!

After what we just witnessed how can you even write off Manny now!?

Bowe and Floyd are biggest quackers in history. The pure definition of the word "duck".

I'm not saying he ducked every fighter, I don't believe any of that, but he shamefully did Pac.

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Exactly...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E-tZVLj1-AU

Listen Mayweather offered pac the fight but he was going to do better testing for it. Pac wanted none of it or arum anyway because he would fail test he even asked if he did fail could it be a secret. Mayweather offered and pac said he did not like needles the fight was dead after that. Also i am not so sure Pac can take a punch like he used to after jmm i mean he has not fought a big puncher since. Mayweather no ko guy but i think he has enough to stop him if he connects enough which he will doesn't matter anyhow because arum does not let his fighters out of his stable to fight golden boy.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He DOES have a nemesis, it's been Manny Pacquiao, and 99.9% of anybody boxing knows it. It's always been Pacquiao!

@ross Of course he bloody ducked Floyd, I have heard it all and it's all nonsense, everybody wants the fight except Floyd. Manny ASKED him for the bloody fight. Even the great Muhammad Ali has just gone on record urging him to take the fight.

Floyd has been Manny's goal from day dot!

After what we just witnessed how can you even write off Manny now!?

Bowe and Floyd are biggest quackers in history. The pure definition of the word "duck".

I'm not saying he ducked every fighter, I don't believe any of that, but he shamefully did Pac.

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Yeah, he shamefully ducked Pac by offering him 40 million to fight him. Then when Pac declined that huge amount of money without even giving a counter offer, Floyd wanted to avoid Pac SO BADLY that he agreed to a 50/50 split, but proposed that they both go through Olympic style drug testing to ensure that they weren't steroid cheats. When Pac turned this down, Floyd wanted to avoid Pac SO BADLY that he kept trying to negotiate a fair cut-off date for the drug testing that would ensure Pac wasn't cheating, but would also give Pac a sufficient amount of time to "recover" from a blood test (lol).

Yeah, Mayweather shamelessly ducked Pacquaio. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ross

Exactly...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E-tZVLj1-AU

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Right, but what would a guy who was, ya know, actually there know about it? ;D

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He wasn't comfortable fighting Maidana.
Not looking for an argument, just trying to keep it real.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

TBE is a rubbish phrase.. TBE my ass..

When we talk about ATG fighters such as Duran, Leonard, and Ali, we can't think of any superfights that they missed out on..especially when the timing was perfect, available and ready..

Floyd blatantly ducked two people in Margarito and Pacquiao. He can be forgiven for Margarito whatever but the fact that he refused to face the best fighter of his generation is a fuckin travesty.

Floyd is all business.. fuck his legacy

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100% agree with Bincey. As good as Mayweather is he carefully selects his opponents and has neveer beaten a top fighter in their prime. Judging on the performance what odds is Mayweather to fight a genuine top welter (ie Thurman or Porter) in his next couple of fights? He'll take the easy option, Maidana rematch in September and Khan in May 2015. Hes smart, he knows if he loses his 0 his appeal is gone and there goes his 40mil+ paydays.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He DOES have a nemesis, it's been Manny Pacquiao, and 99.9% of anybody boxing knows it. It's always been Pacquiao!

@ross Of course he bloody ducked Floyd, I have heard it all and it's all nonsense, everybody wants the fight except Floyd. Manny ASKED him for the bloody fight. Even the great Muhammad Ali has just gone on record urging him to take the fight.

Floyd has been Manny's goal from day dot!

After what we just witnessed how can you even write off Manny now!?

Bowe and Floyd are biggest quackers in history. The pure definition of the word "duck".

I'm not saying he ducked every fighter, I don't believe any of that, but he shamefully did Pac.

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You could make just as strong of an argument to say it was the other way round. There will always be fighters who other fighters don't fight. I remember when Margarito was in Pacquiao's position a few years back and apparently Floyd was ducking him. Sometimes, fights just don't get made. A win over Pacquiao doesn't make or break Mayweather.

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

TBE is a rubbish phrase.. TBE my ass..

When we talk about ATG fighters such as Duran, Leonard, and Ali, we can't think of any superfights that they missed out on..especially when the timing was perfect, available and ready..

Floyd blatantly ducked two people in Margarito and Pacquiao. He can be forgiven for Margarito whatever but the fact that he refused to face the best fighter of his generation is a fuckin travesty.

Floyd is all business.. fuck his legacy

---

100% agree with Bincey. As good as Mayweather is he carefully selects his opponents and has neveer beaten a top fighter in their prime. Judging on the performance what odds is Mayweather to fight a genuine top welter (ie Thurman or Porter) in his next couple of fights? He'll take the easy option, Maidana rematch in September and Khan in May 2015. Hes smart, he knows if he loses his 0 his appeal is gone and there goes his 40mil+ paydays.

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The easy option being the fighter (Maidana) who a load of people on here think gave him the toughest fight of his career?;D

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He wasn't comfortable fighting Maidana.
Not looking for an argument, just trying to keep it real.

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He was comfortable boxing Maidana within the rules. He wasn't comfortable with being UFC'd to death. There was an outcry on here when Hatton showed about 10% of the dirtiness shown by Maidana against Mayweather. :rolleyes:

Well, boxers know their liabilities better than the public does.
In 2002, Jose Luis Castillo showed everyone the blueprint, and only Maidana has followed it.

Jose Luis Castillo
Marcos Maidana


Paul Williams
Antonio Margarito
Kostya Tszyu
Manny Pacquiao

^These guys don't run out of gas. They just keep comin' and comin' with that fast pace, they're tough and have no problem taking shots as long as they get off a few of their own in the exchanges.


Mayweather's shortcoming is to pressure-fighting; it always has been, and he's always known it better than anyone...

ref joe cortez stonewalled Hatton's entire gameplan of pressure-fighting.
I think Mayweather would've won that one anyway even without cortez' help though.

And De La Hoya employed a pressure-style with limited success in their stinker of a match.

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

ref joe cortez stonewalled Hatton's entire gameplan of pressure-fighting.
I think Mayweather would've won that one anyway even without cortez' help though.

And De La Hoya employed a pressure-style with limited success in their stinker of a match.

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Hatton did have success but may have gassed out anyway but the ref was a cunt.

Floyds fight with Oscar was not too bad.

Y'know, a match between Kostya and Mayweather couldn't have happened anyway as one guy was signed with Showtime and the other was with HBO.

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

Y'know, a match between Kostya and Mayweather couldn't have happened anyway as one guy was signed with Showtime and the other was with HBO.

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It's been done before.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He DOES have a nemesis, it's been Manny Pacquiao, and 99.9% of anybody boxing knows it. It's always been Pacquiao!

@ross Of course he bloody ducked Floyd, I have heard it all and it's all nonsense, everybody wants the fight except Floyd. Manny ASKED him for the bloody fight. Even the great Muhammad Ali has just gone on record urging him to take the fight.

Floyd has been Manny's goal from day dot!

After what we just witnessed how can you even write off Manny now!?

Bowe and Floyd are biggest quackers in history. The pure definition of the word "duck".

I'm not saying he ducked every fighter, I don't believe any of that, but he shamefully did Pac.

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You could make just as strong of an argument to say it was the other way round. There will always be fighters who other fighters don't fight. I remember when Margarito was in Pacquiao's position a few years back and apparently Floyd was ducking him. Sometimes, fights just don't get made. A win over Pacquiao doesn't make or break Mayweather.

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Wrong.

A win over Pacquiao would completely cement his legacy.

Never fighting him cuts his legacy in half.

That's what most ppl see I believe.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a stupid assesment. It's like saying "to be the greatest of all time, you need to have more close fights against the same fighter. He doesn't have a nemesis because he's beaten everyone comfortably enough.

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He DOES have a nemesis, it's been Manny Pacquiao, and 99.9% of anybody boxing knows it. It's always been Pacquiao!

@ross Of course he bloody ducked Floyd, I have heard it all and it's all nonsense, everybody wants the fight except Floyd. Manny ASKED him for the bloody fight. Even the great Muhammad Ali has just gone on record urging him to take the fight.

Floyd has been Manny's goal from day dot!

After what we just witnessed how can you even write off Manny now!?

Bowe and Floyd are biggest quackers in history. The pure definition of the word "duck".

I'm not saying he ducked every fighter, I don't believe any of that, but he shamefully did Pac.

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You could make just as strong of an argument to say it was the other way round. There will always be fighters who other fighters don't fight. I remember when Margarito was in Pacquiao's position a few years back and apparently Floyd was ducking him. Sometimes, fights just don't get made. A win over Pacquiao doesn't make or break Mayweather.

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Wrong.

A win over Pacquiao would completely cement his legacy.

Never fighting him cuts his legacy in half.

That's what most ppl see I believe.

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Not now it doesn't. Pacquiao has lost twice (once legit) since the fight was mooted, and his last spectacular performance against a top level guy was a good few years back now.

Not beating Pacquiao doesn't detract from him being considered one of the greatest of all time. He's dominated the sport for over a decade.

He could beat Pacquiao so comfortably that it wouldn't impove his legacy a great deal. He could just make it look like Pacquiao is completely finished. His best case scenario is that he comes through a storm to win, and that's what people have always wanted to happen. I've even heard people say he needs to avenge a loss to be considered the GOAT. It's ridiculous.

@ono max power was discredited and left saddo in shame.

A) Bunce is a fucking moron

B ) Floyd has plenty of rivals but very few get respect for hanging with him/giving him a hard fight.