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Voting is set to private mode so just vote, nobody will know which you voted for. Just interested to see the numbers.
I voted no. I think he was juicig for the pac fight but not the alvarado one.
No he never takes drugs.
He's at least using TRT.
Nevada has banned therapeutic usage exemptions for testosterone replacement now, so we'll have to see if JMM fights in Vegas anymore.
His first fight after Nevada banning TRT was in California, so we'll have to see if he (and others) start ducking Las Vegas.
I was suprise to see him drop Alvarado and bust his face up the way he did. Alvarado is a big welterweight! JMM is suppose to be a featherweight or lightweight. :o JMM has def boost up his power at the age of 40!Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
You should of voted yes if you think he had juice ever.
Can't put past the possibility of anyone that drinks his own urine, wouldn't easliy dable in other stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
I haven't seen proof that he has or is, and I'm not going to trash one of the better fighters in 20+ years based on a case of acne and being ablt to floor a guy who eats punches on the reg ffs. Better time is spent sticking to match up speculation and guess work honestly.
Never tested dirty. Never refused to be tested. Doesn't claimed to fear needles.
No what proof its there? completely looked his age in pac fight till ko from hell. Looked his age in bradley fight, marquez would always look like thirty if he was sixty fighting guys with alverados skill all the time...
The greatest boxer of all of time out of Mexico.
This Fearless icon puts his own legacy on the line by hiring a prosecuted drug cheat, Angel Heredia, in order to get bigger, faster, easier--expediently without suffering any lag in speed and agility if not to likewise, as an aside, have tremendously improved on those aspects too.
I would like to hear what his countrymen and contemporaries namely MAB and El Terrible (both ranked ahead of him during fighting days at the featherweight era) have to say about this vastly accelerated weapons and skills upgrade despite the advanced age... I will be surprised if they think he is clean.
Yes, he chose to dirty up so he can be the greatest ever, ever, ever, boxer of all time out of Mexico. It was and still is a safe move, foolproof--what with Heredia constantly schooling the other side of the spectrum in not failing any drug test in this "cat and mouse PED" game.
Never thought, around the time frame before the FMJ fight that Marquez can grow as big as a barn to easily elicit bewilderment with his sheer size and mascularity in a weight category--only paralleled once and only time, IMO, by Eddie Mustafa Muhammad... He was all arms, shoulders and girth to go with spindly legs. Like that of a crab.
JMM was distinctly bigger than Alvarado, at fight night! Amazing.
All said and done, my hats off to Juan Manuel Marquez, not before long, the greatest boxer of all time bar none...what with Angel Heredia and Nacho Beristain on his side, he will be.
FMJ is staying out of this picture, for easily JMM represents the real threat to his "0" if things get crazy and they end up slugging it out in a rematch.
When did Heredia become a strenght and conditioning coach? The guy is a chemist, he makes drugs. Thats all he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
He refused in the Bradley fight foo Bradley did VADA testing JMM refused! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Marquez preferred USADA over VADA. Either way both took extensive tests that were paid for by Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainHe refused in the Bradley fight foo Bradley did VADA testing JMM refused! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Bob fucking Arum!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseMarquez preferred USADA over VADA. Either way both took extensive tests that were paid for by Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainHe refused in the Bradley fight foo Bradley did VADA testing JMM refused! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Good morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
Interesting theory but terribly flawed.
Some background is needed here.
In 2008 Marquez fought Manny at 130 and lost a split decision and after the fight his obsession with Manny increased and it was already at a fever pitch.
After that fight the Oscar fight was dangling for Manny so he moved up first to 135. Marquez followed fighting both Cass and Diaz at that weight. Manny had just fought Oscar prior so he was already on the way up again and after Oscar he fought Hatton. Marquez like a blood hound was on Mannys scent and the Floyd fight came along. Now as stated Marquez was already moving up in his pursuit of Manny so the Floyd fight was a no brainer.
Marquez weighed in at 142 in that fight, looked flabby and fought terribly but the object imo was to put on weight in order to stay after his holy grail. Now he did go back to 135 but he was already on weight training and by the time he fought Ramos you could see that it was having results and he weighed in at 138. There was no Heredia. What followed was his third fight with Manny at which time Juan weighed just 142 . It seemed obvious to me that the guy simply changed the flab that he put on against Floyd into muscle over that 2 year period by simply hitting the weights bigtime and little guys do show growth a lot more. Even a pound or two. Btw in the third fight Heredia was not involved and he looked no different in the third fight then he did in the fourth and imo its only te fact that Manny got cold cocked by a perfect shot that leads to these baseless Ped charges.
The claim of guilt by association does not wash and its my feeling that guys like Conte and Heredia would be the safest guys because the scrutiny they probably face is probably worse then a suspected serial killer. They used to be the guys in the shadows so unless they were as clean as a sterile instrument a fighter would be crazy to hire them. Plus they have both ratted out peds in sport.
I don’t see these increases in speed etc etc and in fact I think Marquez is on the downside. Tim showed that pretty clearly even though I still cant believe he beat him. Alvarado was tailor made for him.
I doubt Mab and Erik would say anything and again I just don’t see all of these massive improvements you are on about and I doubt they do either. He was ranked lower at feather then they were because he started later. Both of them fought 2 divisions south most of their careers. Do you remember what Morales looked like at 122 weigh ins? Like Kate Moss in here heroin days.
Marquez was no bigger in the fourth fight then he was in the third and he was certainly not bigger then Alvarado and he weighed in lighter then his four previous fights. This power increase thing is a real head scratcher and seems to be based on a perfect punch and the fact that he dropped Alvarado who was hand picked after the Bradley fight. There is simply no evidence to support this elevated power increase and he has lost speed imo not gained any.
And finally even if he is juicing he wont beat Floyd. Its a style horror show for him.
At least you didn’t mention the zits
Great narrative! Sufficed, as it is all in reverence to the greatest boxing ever, ever, ever out of Mexico and even possibly, in no time, the whole wide world!Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitGood morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
Interesting theory but terribly flawed.
Some background is needed here.
In 2008 Marquez fought Manny at 130 and lost a split decision and after the fight his obsession with Manny increased and it was already at a fever pitch.
After that fight the Oscar fight was dangling for Manny so he moved up first to 135. Marquez followed fighting both Cass and Diaz at that weight. Manny had just fought Oscar prior so he was already on the way up again and after Oscar he fought Hatton. Marquez like a blood hound was on Mannys scent and the Floyd fight came along. Now as stated Marquez was already moving up in his pursuit of Manny so the Floyd fight was a no brainer.
Marquez weighed in at 142 in that fight, looked flabby and fought terribly but the object imo was to put on weight in order to stay after his holy grail. Now he did go back to 135 but he was already on weight training and by the time he fought Ramos you could see that it was having results and he weighed in at 138. There was no Heredia. What followed was his third fight with Manny at which time Juan weighed just 142 . It seemed obvious to me that the guy simply changed the flab that he put on against Floyd into muscle over that 2 year period by simply hitting the weights bigtime and little guys do show growth a lot more. Even a pound or two. Btw in the third fight Heredia was not involved and he looked no different in the third fight then he did in the fourth and imo its only te fact that Manny got cold cocked by a perfect shot that leads to these baseless Ped charges.
The claim of guilt by association does not wash and its my feeling that guys like Conte and Heredia would be the safest guys because the scrutiny they probably face is probably worse then a suspected serial killer. They used to be the guys in the shadows so unless they were as clean as a sterile instrument a fighter would be crazy to hire them. Plus they have both ratted out peds in sport.
I don’t see these increases in speed etc etc and in fact I think Marquez is on the downside. Tim showed that pretty clearly even though I still cant believe he beat him. Alvarado was tailor made for him.
I doubt Mab and Erik would say anything and again I just don’t see all of these massive improvements you are on about and I doubt they do either. He was ranked lower at feather then they were because he started later. Both of them fought 2 divisions south most of their careers. Do you remember what Morales looked like at 122 weigh ins? Like Kate Moss in here heroin days.
Marquez was no bigger in the fourth fight then he was in the third and he was certainly not bigger then Alvarado and he weighed in lighter then his four previous fights. This power increase thing is a real head scratcher and seems to be based on a perfect punch and the fact that he dropped Alvarado who was hand picked after the Bradley fight. There is simply no evidence to support this elevated power increase and he has lost speed imo not gained any.
And finally even if he is juicing he wont beat Floyd. Its a style horror show for him.
At least you didn’t mention the zits
Your magnificent explanation is such a benchmark for clarity that it may well prove to be the transcript to absolve each and every athlete, competitor, or bodybuilding cheats or suspected cheats, who in their defense can only come up with a two-cent worth of logic to dig their names out of the halls of shame.
Hail to the Bonds, McGuire, and the Joneses!
Hail Heredia! The greatest ever, ever, ever, health nutritionist and trainer of marquee, gold medal stars and unmatched Olympic performers-- all-time legends!
More power to their kind, this, if we are to witness all the future Marquez', fearless conquerors, of the world!
For those who think it was not only the collective pee from team Marquez that JMM drank and ingested but likewise all the poo of their team as well, just to be where he is at, at the pinnacle of success, you sure all have another think coming!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrusGreat narrative! Sufficed, as it is all in reverence to the greatest boxing ever, ever, ever out of Mexico and even possibly, in no time, the whole wide world!Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitGood morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
Interesting theory but terribly flawed.
Some background is needed here.
In 2008 Marquez fought Manny at 130 and lost a split decision and after the fight his obsession with Manny increased and it was already at a fever pitch.
After that fight the Oscar fight was dangling for Manny so he moved up first to 135. Marquez followed fighting both Cass and Diaz at that weight. Manny had just fought Oscar prior so he was already on the way up again and after Oscar he fought Hatton. Marquez like a blood hound was on Mannys scent and the Floyd fight came along. Now as stated Marquez was already moving up in his pursuit of Manny so the Floyd fight was a no brainer.
Marquez weighed in at 142 in that fight, looked flabby and fought terribly but the object imo was to put on weight in order to stay after his holy grail. Now he did go back to 135 but he was already on weight training and by the time he fought Ramos you could see that it was having results and he weighed in at 138. There was no Heredia. What followed was his third fight with Manny at which time Juan weighed just 142 . It seemed obvious to me that the guy simply changed the flab that he put on against Floyd into muscle over that 2 year period by simply hitting the weights bigtime and little guys do show growth a lot more. Even a pound or two. Btw in the third fight Heredia was not involved and he looked no different in the third fight then he did in the fourth and imo its only te fact that Manny got cold cocked by a perfect shot that leads to these baseless Ped charges.
The claim of guilt by association does not wash and its my feeling that guys like Conte and Heredia would be the safest guys because the scrutiny they probably face is probably worse then a suspected serial killer. They used to be the guys in the shadows so unless they were as clean as a sterile instrument a fighter would be crazy to hire them. Plus they have both ratted out peds in sport.
I don’t see these increases in speed etc etc and in fact I think Marquez is on the downside. Tim showed that pretty clearly even though I still cant believe he beat him. Alvarado was tailor made for him.
I doubt Mab and Erik would say anything and again I just don’t see all of these massive improvements you are on about and I doubt they do either. He was ranked lower at feather then they were because he started later. Both of them fought 2 divisions south most of their careers. Do you remember what Morales looked like at 122 weigh ins? Like Kate Moss in here heroin days.
Marquez was no bigger in the fourth fight then he was in the third and he was certainly not bigger then Alvarado and he weighed in lighter then his four previous fights. This power increase thing is a real head scratcher and seems to be based on a perfect punch and the fact that he dropped Alvarado who was hand picked after the Bradley fight. There is simply no evidence to support this elevated power increase and he has lost speed imo not gained any.
And finally even if he is juicing he wont beat Floyd. Its a style horror show for him.
At least you didn’t mention the zits
Your magnificent explanation is such a benchmark for clarity that it may well prove to be the transcript to absolve each and every athlete, competitor, or bodybuilding cheats or suspected cheats, who in their defense can only come up with a two-cent worth of logic to dig their names out of the halls of shame.
Hail to the Bonds, McGuire, and the Joneses!
Hail Heredia! The greatest ever, ever, ever, health nutritionist and trainer of marquee, gold medal stars and unmatched Olympic performers-- all-time legends!
More power to their kind, this, if we are to witness all the future Marquez', fearless conquerors, of the world!
For those who think it was not only the collective pee from team Marquez that JMM drank and ingested but likewise all the poo of their team as well, just to be where he is at, at the pinnacle of success, you sure all have another think coming!
Are you a drama student? That overly sarcastic diatribe is no more proof of Marquez juicing then the one I responded to but don't let the facts and an alternate explanation get in the way of the agenda. Its only a little further up the stream to your resting place.
Yes. Juan Manuel Marquez is on PEDS. I want to be on topic!
He preferred USADA knowing they can be bought. ;) VADA does the most modern and extensive testing and no they can no be bought. Your a fool if you don't see why heredia was hired. The guy is not a strenght and conditioning coach. The scum is a drug dealer/producer/supplier, thats what he does. Only a matter of time this clown slips up again and he will snitch on JMM for using, just like what he did with his past clients. Just wait and see. Go ahead and argue otherwise while you still can but wait and see. JMM career gonna get flush for his bad choice of associating with this scum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseMarquez preferred USADA over VADA. Either way both took extensive tests that were paid for by Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainHe refused in the Bradley fight foo Bradley did VADA testing JMM refused! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Nothing but bitter Pac fans .. PED claims started after the KO not after the 3rd fight where it could be argued that JMM won. JMM does nor KO Bradley or Alvarado so why all the paranoia? JMM moves up 5 weight classes and is accused of PED use despite never testing positive. Pac moves up 10 classes and is Gods exception what a joke. Pac KO's out everyone until being accused of PED use then can no longer KO anyone.
Seems to be just a case of bitterness that Pac got fucked in the ass by the same thing that helped him to his meteoric rise. "Timing" Now that he is clean he wants his opponents to be clean.
Did not seem to bother Pactards that Rios used Heredia ........ Just a bunch of bitter fans trying to justify the beating their idol took by JMM. Did not seem to bother them Ariza was a fellow chemist. Heredia was a strength and conditioning coach for Arce in 2011 and attended Texas A&M things you already know but play stupid about .Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainWhen did Heredia become a strenght and conditioning coach? The guy is a chemist, he makes drugs. Thats all he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainHe preferred USADA knowing they can be bought. ;) VADA does the most modern and extensive testing and no they can no be bought. Your a fool if you don't see why heredia was hired. The guy is not a strenght and conditioning coach. The scum is a drug dealer/producer/supplier, thats what he does. Only a matter of time this clown slips up again and he will snitch on JMM for using, just like what he did with his past clients. Just wait and see. Go ahead and argue otherwise while you still can but wait and see. JMM career gonna get flush for his bad choice of associating with this scum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseMarquez preferred USADA over VADA. Either way both took extensive tests that were paid for by Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainHe refused in the Bradley fight foo Bradley did VADA testing JMM refused! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
What credentials do you have to credit or discredit VADA or USADA ? Either way Top Rank has used both . And if you saw 24/7 prior to Pac bouts So you saw the drills he put JMM through. A chemist does not do this !!! So while you are at it call your country man Nonito a scumbag for using Conte, and Pac and Arum for working being associated with the King of PEDS = Conte
nope, its all the pee he drinks!!! he's super healthy. lol its PEE not PED!!