... the fight where we looked at him and said he was a tab bit slower and older? It had to have happened during the mid-70's. But, can anyone pinpoint the fight where we said he looked particularly slower and less mobile?
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... the fight where we looked at him and said he was a tab bit slower and older? It had to have happened during the mid-70's. But, can anyone pinpoint the fight where we said he looked particularly slower and less mobile?
Muhammad Ali looked 'terrible' against Chuck Wepner in March 1975.
And that was only 5-Months after his bout with George Foreman.
Muhammad looked poor in Training Camp at Deer Lake, where he got lumped
up by Roy 'Tiger' Williams.
That only told me, that his win over George Foreman was a fluke.
I'm gonna look for that Wepner vid. Because in the Foreman fight, we can tell Ali was getting pounded on, but he didn't appear to be on his way to looking like a walking zombie. He still had his reflexes as if he was in there with Sonny Liston or Ernie Terrell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
You can't only go by the fight with Chuck Wepner.
I saw Muhammad Ali at his Training Camp prior to that bout in Cleveland.
He showed absolutely nothing, and was getting pounded on by Roy 'Tiger' Williams
in early 1975.
And Larry Holmes easily out jabbed him.
His reflexes weren't completely gone, but he wasn't performing well.
The Larry Holmes fight should've never happened.
Between that, and Larry's constant whining about color, are the main reasons I've always hated Larry Holmes.
I remember the incident where he was being interviewed in the corner by a reporter and he said he was old and slow and in his younger days he would have beaten this fighter.
I do not know who it was either?
Who ever stands still in front of a puncher like Foreman for 8 rounds doesn't do so by 'fluke'.
George Foreman's arms were hanging like heavy water-logged branches by Round 3.
He was done to a turn.
It still took Muhammad Ali 4 1/2 Rounds more to drop an exhausted lumbering galoot.
That lumbering galoot as you call him was the hardest hitting heavyweight ever and was never stopped by any other opponent he ever faced again. Only you could see the worst in Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
George Foreman,
Arguably, fought the worst fight in boxing history.
No plan, other than throwing windmill looping punches, until he was exhausted.
Muhammad Ali did not fight great. He just could absorb a lot of punches, due to
the thickness of his skull.
Ali was almost in the full onset of Parkinson's by then.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I always wondered if his stint in jail had something to do with it? You know they were doing all types of shit with black inmates, experimenting with syphilis and the like. All types of shit.
Those were the last days of the durable heavyweights. I dunno what happened?!?! Was it that the fighters hit harder with more skill now, or was it that these dudes were just badass and tough as nails?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Vitali was a throwback to the tough as nails days of Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Ali and Frazier. During the fight with Lewis, that uppercut in round five I think it was, would have decapitated a Rhinoceros.
Muhammad Ali,
In sparring, Muhammad liked taking shots to the head and body. He believed it toughened him up.
Of course, when he reached 35 or so, his brain was 'loose'.
Eubanks did the same, said it helped him get use to getting hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Muhammad Ali was tough and durable.
Thick skulls can absorb those heavy blows.
A great chin, will to win and heart of a lion helps a bit as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Except,
The 'Heart of a Lion', the 'Great Chin' and the 'Will to Win' failed miserably against;
* Joe Frazier I
* Ken Norton I
* Leon Spinks I
* Larry Holmes
* Trevor Berbick
Lets not forget 'Luck'
Against,
* Ken Norton II
* Ken Norton III
* Jimmy Young
* Antonio Inoki
Except for Frazier and maybe Norton the Ali losses and lucky victories were more down to age than a thick skull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Lots of slippage versus Chuck Wepner.
Chuck had been getting out-classed by his sparring partners before this March 1975 bout.
Are you kidding me? Ali was ostracized from boxing for close to 4 years at his prime. And to top it off his conviction was overturned. He had two fights and then fought Joe. He showed great heart and courage in that fight especially after being dropped. He showed tremendous will and a great chin. That hook came from outside the stadium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Same with Norton. He displayed all of the qualities @Master mentioned and then some. He was yapping and got his jaw broken and kept yapping and lost a split. Ali was 32 at the time and already showing diminished capacity.
Spinks. As much as I hate to say it imo that fight was of design. Much like the 117/111 card from last night. When Ali won the rematch he became the first and only three time world champion. A record that stands today. A Don King thing.
King was also responsible for forcing Larry to fight a close to 40 year old Ali. Not sure how anyone can question those qualities mentioned by Master in this one either?
Berbick. Kind of like questioning Robinsons credentials cause he lost to Stan Harrington twice.
Ali began to look like shit in his 2nd Frazier fight, about 1975 I'd say. George Foreman would have killed him in a rematch. Joe Frazier won the Thrilla but he couldnt see so he quit and lost. Ali refused to go out for the 12th, and Dundee and Bundini Brown literally shoved him off his stool into the ring. Jimmy Young beat Ali. Earnie Shavers beat ali. ali was shot to shit after the pounding in Zaire and really, frankly, shot to shit after the 1st Frazier fight. Joe Frazier crushed-in Ali's skull on the right side of his head that night, and it never recovered, ever, ever again.
Muhammad Ali
Oh, he was marvelous against Rudi Lubbers.
The Dutch-Boy was a 'full-time' Night-Club Doorman/Bouncer at a Rotterdam Discotheque, and a 'part-time' boxer.
Forgotten, is that Rudi Lubbers was an over-blown Light-Heavyweight, and Rudi had only 1-Bout in 19-Months prior
to fighting Muhammad Ali.
Rudi goes 12-Rounds with Ali in October 1973.
That proves that Ali's win over George Foreman was a 'fluke' of the biggest proportions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterEubanks did the same, said it helped him get use to getting hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
don't get me wrong chris eubank is brilliant for the sport and extremely entertaining but hes a total bellend
did you see him between rounds when he did his sons corner? bellend
There must be a reason for your irrational hate was it his political stance, race, anti-establishment, because it can not be boxing as you have not come up with anything decent yet about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Looking for a spat are we. Change the font a little Frankfurder/Max Power/Buzzlightyear?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
That Foreman could not box his way out of a wet paper bag and after that fight Jimmy Young kicked his ass so bad that he retired for 8 years and found God. Foreman was a much better boxer once he came out of godtirement. Would you like me to compile a list of fighters that either struggled or lost to guys they should have beaten easily? If so Saddo better amend his character limit.
You were already idiotic when you included the circus with the Japanese wrestler under a "luck" heading. You blew your cover and your wad with that one. Using that kind of example along with the already meager list as some kind of evidence to belittle Ali tells me that you have the boxing IQ of 30.
It takes 31 to bark.
Of course you couldn't properly spell Intelligence Quotient, so you abbreviated.
Sounds like you are closer to Moron Level than Average Human Intelligence.
It appears that your IQ Level borders around '60'.
That means with your skill level, you are qualified to 'harvest vegetables' or repair furniture.
Wow you can spell out what IQ means, you must be highly intelligent and have a thin skull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
I made up a word years ago and and called it empiracide. Derived from the word empirical. I'm sure you can figure it out. You dismiss the facts out of the gate so anything you say after that is toxic dare I say ignorant redundancy and I refuse to indulge any further grounded on a statement attributed by some to Mark Twain...........Quote:
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
Iam,
You're a funny guy. Have you ever thought about getting into Show Business.
Maybe discussing the Muhammad Ali - Antonio Inoki bout.
I'd love to hear your whimsical thoughts on that 'extravaganza'.
And your explanation on why the Japanese spectators threw 'raw' garbage at the beloved Muhammad Ali as he left the Ring.
Muhammad Ali really messed with your mind, body and spirit that you pick out these fights to criticize him. What did he do to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
He did nothing.
Most of his bouts were 'borefests', 'snoozers', and 'dull fiascos'.
http://gifsoup.com/view/2837510/mich...g-popcorn.htmlhttp://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/283...-popcorn-o.gif
Paxtom and Master trading,
a left, a right, he's got 'im on the ropes !
:box3:
Yet you still talk about them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Just a reminder, on how unexciting he was.
Popular yes, but exciting no.
The fact that you're listing joke fights like Inoki and Berbick shows just how far you're willing to stretch for your agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Kevin McBride's 'win' over Mike Tyson was of more significance. :rolleyes:
His win over Foreman was a fluke, if they had a rematch today then I think Foreman would win... :vd:
Anybody can use a spellchecker, it's a shame there's nothing to stop people from using unnecessary capitalisation, especially when they are trying to take the intellectual high ground. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
...and who actually says 'Intelligence Quotient' instead of 'IQ'?
Psuedo-Intellects, Tryhards, Aspies and Androids... (I'd guess all but one could apply).
Another pedantic stretch.
I believe it's correctly spelled
I - Cue
Meaning, you tee up the 'I' with a pool stick.
Can spell Intellectual Quotient, can't write in anything but sentence fragments.
Speaking of Muhammad Ali,
Didn't he look great against,
* Chuck Wepner
* Ron Lyle
* Joe Bugner
* Joe Frazier III ~ {Frazzled, equilibrium problems, worn out, eye damage, kidney issues and high blood pressure}
* Jean-Pierre Coopman
* Jimmy Young ~ {Thank You Judges}
* Antonio Inoki ~ {Thank You 'Suckers' who paid to watch this garbage}
* Ken Norton III ~ {Thank You Judges}
* Alfredo Evangelista
* Earnie Shavers
* Leon Spinks I ~ {7-Bout Professional}
He did look good against,
* Richard Dunn {look at my chin}