Shawn Porter/Juice/Drug Testing/Paulie. Fact.

So Paulie is basically calling him a cheat. Paulie says he's never felt power like it. Devon Alexander's trainer told Paulie that Devon was shocked by Porter's power. Porter and his old man approached Paulie to ask him to cool it on the drugs issue. There's been a little confusion between Porter and Brook's team over random drug testing. Hearn says it's happening. Porter's dad says it's not. Oscar says it is. Seems to be resolved.

Last year Porter couldn't put a dent in the "lightweight" Julio Diaz, now all of a sudden he has the reputation of a fearsome banger. Before ironing out Paulie he hadn't stopped anyone in a few years, which includes guys like Alfonso Gomez, who gets a good hiding everytime he goes near the elite.

Does Paulie have a point or is he going over the top?

Seriously raises Questions about Porter after reading those facts mate ;)

Can't believe that Drug tests are not mandatory for every fighter before and after the fight.

Peoples lifes are at risk at the end of the day!!!

Good Post :cool:

And yeah i think Paulie has a VERY good point ;)

Here's a provisional :coolclick: subject to confirmation of the above.

:p

Just stuck this thread onto my fbook wall as Brook trains at my brothers mates Gym


Heres a Video of Brook talking along the same lines!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YtaV...e_gdata_player

Here's the thing: it's common boxing lore that punchers are born, not made... right? So what makes people think that PED's suddenly turn a fighter into a power punching machine? I think it's the Rocky 4 syndrome, where we saw Drago take the steroids and then his punching power measured through the roof.

People will say "well of course if steroids make you stronger, of course your punch is going to be stronger." Not necessarily, considering the fact that "punching power" comes from a chain of processes that we really can't define, and historically have not been able to improve upon. Weight lifting makes you stronger, but does weight training make you punch harder? Boxing consensus has always said no. How many guys can you name who started their careers feather fisted, and then developed punching power and became KO artists? Again, boxing consensus has always said you either have power or you don't.

Am I saying steroids do NOTHING for you punching. No. Am I saying Porter is definitely not on steroids? No. But I don't believe steroids will take you from an average puncher to the point where a guy like Paulie would say "wow, I can't believe how much power you have, you must be using something." I've never seen any evidence of that. In the UFC, Stephan Bonnar was juiced out of his mind when he fought Anderson Silva. Anderson stood with his back against the cage, hands down, and let Stephan punch him on the chin and laughed at him. Stephan was never a huge puncher and steroids seemingly did nothing for him (remember, these are tiny UFC gloves, not boxing gloves he was using).

And also, is Paulie that niave to think that he's never fought anyone on steroids until Porter (if indeed Porter was using?)

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Here's the thing: it's common boxing lore that punchers are born, not made... right? So what makes people think that PED's suddenly turn a fighter into a power punching machine? I think it's the Rocky 4 syndrome, where we saw Drago take the steroids and then his punching power measured through the roof.

People will say "well of course if steroids make you stronger, of course your punch is going to be stronger." Not necessarily, considering the fact that "punching power" comes from a chain of processes that we really can't define, and historically have not been able to improve upon. Weight lifting makes you stronger, but does weight training make you punch harder? Boxing consensus has always said no. How many guys can you name who started their careers feather fisted, and then developed punching power and became KO artists? Again, boxing consensus has always said you either have power or you don't.

Am I saying steroids do NOTHING for you punching. No. Am I saying Porter is definitely not on steroids? No. But I don't believe steroids will take you from an average puncher to the point where a guy like Paulie would say "wow, I can't believe how much power you have, you must be using something." I've never seen any evidence of that. In the UFC, Stephan Bonnar was juiced out of his mind when he fought Anderson Silva. Anderson stood with his back against the cage, hands down, and let Stephan punch him on the chin and laughed at him. Stephan was never a huge puncher and steroids seemingly did nothing for him (remember, these are tiny UFC gloves, not boxing gloves he was using).

And also, is Paulie that niave to think that he's never fought anyone on steroids until Porter (if indeed Porter was using?)

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more than a few daft points in there mate but you rescued it at the very end


Pauli was shocked with porters power - porters power has come from steroids - Pauli has never felt power like it before - so Pauli mustn't have fought anyone on steroids before ?


is that a fair point?


I dunno, theres so many factors with steroid use its hard to say


one thing that is for absolute certain tho, it can improve your punching power

I'm just reporting what Paulie said, unless evidence surfaces I'll give anyone the benefit of doubt.

The other week I was watching a documentary film about Lance Armstrong, he was treated like a nonce for using drugs, yet in boxing it seems even the guys that get caught are swiftly forgiven and welcomed open arms back into the sport/business.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I'm just reporting what Paulie said, unless evidence surfaces I'll give anyone the benefit of doubt.

The other week I was watching a documentary film about Lance Armstrong, he was treated like a nonce for using drugs, yet in boxing it seems even the guys that get caught are swiftly forgiven and welcomed open arms back into the sport/business.

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daft mate innit

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Originally Posted by Fenster

So Paulie is basically calling him a cheat. Paulie says he's never felt power like it. Devon Alexander's trainer told Paulie that Devon was shocked by Porter's power. Porter and his old man approached Paulie to ask him to cool it on the drugs issue. There's been a little confusion between Porter and Brook's team over random drug testing. Hearn says it's happening. Porter's dad says it's not. Oscar says it is. Seems to be resolved.

Last year Porter couldn't put a dent in the "lightweight" Julio Diaz, now all of a sudden he has the reputation of a fearsome banger. Before ironing out Paulie he hadn't stopped anyone in a few years, which includes guys like Alfonso Gomez, who gets a good hiding everytime he goes near the elite.

Does Paulie have a point or is he going over the top?

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Don't know if Paulie is going over the top or not, but if Paulie is willing to risk his reputation or Porter's, I think we should find out.
If it turns out that Porter was or is using PEDs it's a reputation killer, and there will always be some doubt about past and future wins.
If it turns out that Porter is clean (is tested and continues to destroy everyone he fights) then I'm probably not going to be listening to Paulie when he talks about PEDs anymore.
Porter should be punished in some way if he has used PEDs, but the important thing in my mind is not "getting" Porter, the important thing is doing whatever possible to make sure it doesn't happen again, with someone else.
That's going to he expensive, and will take cooperation from everyone (LOL) in boxing.

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Originally Posted by smashup

And yeah i think Paulie has a VERY good point ;)

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I agree with Smashup. It's sounds dodgy to me. Fighters should just take the tests, it's not a game of bowls.

It was very suspicious because I did not see him as a big puncher but maybe he just caught Paulie right. McCallum knocked out Curry with a single punch and that never happened before or after in his career. So it could happen.

People can become punchers, Thomas "Hitman" Hearns is considered an all time great puncher and it is widely known he could punch for shit his first few years at the gym.

Steroids are not an instant cure all, although they do fix everything from wasting to asthma to poison ivy. So they are pretty damn close to a cure all.

Sometimes in boxing tiny differences make drastic differences. Catch a guy on the cheek with a shot and he takes it fine, that same shot on the tip of the chin and he's sleeping. Literally inches of difference. Drastically different outcome.

The same applies in many ways. You push a guy of equal strength he moves a little, you push a guy with less strength he moves more, maybe it effects his balance so a hand drops and your right lands in that opening.

You see steroids all through sports because they work. Pick the sport and at one point or another they've said "well it doesn't effect our sport because...". That thought snubs its nose at every bit of evidence that has ever existed. Every sport where you can measure gains steroids have proven to have a profound effect. But not in this sport. Yeah, then why do people spend so damn much money and take such risk?

Denying steroids effect is like denying all scientific evidence because the Bible told you so.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

People can become punchers, Thomas "Hitman" Hearns is considered an all time great puncher and it is widely known he could punch for shit his first few years at the gym.

Steroids are not an instant cure all, although they do fix everything from wasting to asthma to poison ivy. So they are pretty damn close to a cure all.

Sometimes in boxing tiny differences make drastic differences. Catch a guy on the cheek with a shot and he takes it fine, that same shot on the tip of the chin and he's sleeping. Literally inches of difference. Drastically different outcome.

The same applies in many ways. You push a guy of equal strength he moves a little, you push a guy with less strength he moves more, maybe it effects his balance so a hand drops and your right lands in that opening.

You see steroids all through sports because they work. Pick the sport and at one point or another they've said "well it doesn't effect our sport because...". That thought snubs its nose at every bit of evidence that has ever existed. Every sport where you can measure gains steroids have proven to have a profound effect. But not in this sport. Yeah, then why do people spend so damn much money and take such risk?

Denying steroids effect is like denying all scientific evidence because the Bible told you so.

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Science is the tool of the devil

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

People can become punchers, Thomas "Hitman" Hearns is considered an all time great puncher and it is widely known he could punch for shit his first few years at the gym.

Steroids are not an instant cure all, although they do fix everything from wasting to asthma to poison ivy. So they are pretty damn close to a cure all.

Sometimes in boxing tiny differences make drastic differences. Catch a guy on the cheek with a shot and he takes it fine, that same shot on the tip of the chin and he's sleeping. Literally inches of difference. Drastically different outcome.

The same applies in many ways. You push a guy of equal strength he moves a little, you push a guy with less strength he moves more, maybe it effects his balance so a hand drops and your right lands in that opening.

You see steroids all through sports because they work. Pick the sport and at one point or another they've said "well it doesn't effect our sport because...". That thought snubs its nose at every bit of evidence that has ever existed. Every sport where you can measure gains steroids have proven to have a profound effect. But not in this sport. Yeah, then why do people spend so damn much money and take such risk?

Denying steroids effect is like denying all scientific evidence because the Bible told you so.

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Science is the tool of the devil

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Amen, Brother Silkeyjoe.

Olympic style testing throughout boxing..make it mandatory.

It makes sense but cost money.

I hope it ain't true. I really liked porter as a fighter.

In todays world all you have to do sometimes is ask the question if you're already dead set on one answer ;D Hatton and Cano did some ironing out of Paulie mid to late among others similar style. Porter was all wrong for Paulie. Caught him on career tail end and didn't play a pose off and hesitate with him.

The point of the thread is being over looked by some of you....

Bottom line is that Porter (all of a sudden) is ironing out fighters at a bigger weight than he used to face and is being touted as a kind of mini Tyson.

Why wasn't this the case when he fought at a lesser weight?

It still amazes me that in a sport where its legal to kill your opponent there is no mandatory testing for ped use.

I think Brook beats Porter too and his style and jab will frustrate him , make him fight even wilder then Kell can pick him apart.

All depends on how well Kell can travel but he's def the better boxer here by far.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Last year Porter couldn't put a dent in the "lightweight" Julio Diaz, now all of a sudden he has the reputation of a fearsome banger.

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It is all Jesus. I am telling ya, 100% reliable source. Link

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Originally Posted by NVSemin

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Last year Porter couldn't put a dent in the "lightweight" Julio Diaz, now all of a sudden he has the reputation of a fearsome banger.

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It is all Jesus. I am telling ya, 100% reliable source.

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Not sure what that has to do with Porter, although as an American I guess it's a safe bet he's part of the god squad.

The video should have been titled - "listen to this complete and utter lunatic that thinks a supernatural being used him to beat the living fuck out of Mike Tyson" not the "worst interview ever"

Playing devils advocate he could now be stronger because he was potentially weakened at the weight.

Cotto moved up and became more resiliant. Nigel Benn also. Steve Cunningham could take Adameks shots at heavy. Even Haye to a degree, Barrett knocked him down but he wasnt the wobbly legged fighter that got rocked by Mock and Thompson.

Porter has never been a lightweight, he came down to welterweight from being a middle/lightmiddle, I was being sarcastic by calling Julio Diaz a "lightweight" because Amir Khan got boat loads of stick from a certain number of fans on here who have conveniently ignored the fact that Porter struggled with him twice.

Kudos though Ross for getting Lolenga Mock into a thread about Shawn Porter. Superb. ;D

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Originally Posted by ross

Playing devils advocate he could now be stronger because he was potentially weakened at the weight.

Cotto moved up and became more resiliant. Nigel Benn also. Steve Cunningham could take Adameks shots at heavy. Even Haye to a degree, Barrett knocked him down but he wasnt the wobbly legged fighter that got rocked by Mock and Thompson.

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you have to chose you're opponents carefully as well, perhaps Porters team were bringing him on slowly and only unleashed him when the power really developed


I mean, there's plenty of examples of fighters having been protected or carefully driven through their careers, Tyson fury for example ducked Price and more recently Ustinov, perhaps they are waiting for his power to develop :)

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Originally Posted by smashup

Just stuck this thread onto my fbook wall as Brook trains at my brothers mates Gym


Heres a Video of Brook talking along the same lines!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YtaVfJLHDk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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I'm actually coming around on this guy. Been a little hard on him. I do think it a bit strange that 3 weeks out from the fight that he does not even know if there is a random program or not. I mean this is the time that they should be doing them. Starting them a week before the fight is not going to do anything or catch anyone that is not a pin head following Googles instructions.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Here's the thing: it's common boxing lore that punchers are born, not made... right? So what makes people think that PED's suddenly turn a fighter into a power punching machine? I think it's the Rocky 4 syndrome, where we saw Drago take the steroids and then his punching power measured through the roof.

People will say "well of course if steroids make you stronger, of course your punch is going to be stronger." Not necessarily, considering the fact that "punching power" comes from a chain of processes that we really can't define, and historically have not been able to improve upon. Weight lifting makes you stronger, but does weight training make you punch harder? Boxing consensus has always said no. How many guys can you name who started their careers feather fisted, and then developed punching power and became KO artists? Again, boxing consensus has always said you either have power or you don't.

Am I saying steroids do NOTHING for you punching. No. Am I saying Porter is definitely not on steroids? No. But I don't believe steroids will take you from an average puncher to the point where a guy like Paulie would say "wow, I can't believe how much power you have, you must be using something." I've never seen any evidence of that. In the UFC, Stephan Bonnar was juiced out of his mind when he fought Anderson Silva. Anderson stood with his back against the cage, hands down, and let Stephan punch him on the chin and laughed at him. Stephan was never a huge puncher and steroids seemingly did nothing for him (remember, these are tiny UFC gloves, not boxing gloves he was using).

And also, is Paulie that niave to think that he's never fought anyone on steroids until Porter (if indeed Porter was using?)

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You cant call it lore and then go on to accept it as truth to try to make a point. I don't think there is anything to dispute the fact one is born a puncher and it can be traced. Its not just word of mouth or urban legend. It can be shown.

Now maybe Porter was weakened lower or higher and has found his niche at 147
It could also be based on the evidence and testimony of others, that he has had a chemical assist.

There is no question that chemistry can enhance both speed and power.

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Originally Posted by smashup

The point of the thread is being over looked by some of you....

Bottom line is that Porter (all of a sudden) is ironing out fighters at a bigger weight than he used to face and is being touted as a kind of mini Tyson.

Why wasn't this the case when he fought at a lesser weight?

It still amazes me that in a sport where its legal to kill your opponent there is no mandatory testing for ped use.

I think Brook beats Porter too and his style and jab will frustrate him , make him fight even wilder then Kell can pick him apart.

All depends on how well Kell can travel but he's def the better boxer here by far.

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An excellent point about the license to kill in the ring, but no mandatory drug testing before you get in that ring.
You are the man. Work that into a usable slogan and I'll use it at the top of some of my posts on this or any other boxing site.
A license to kill without drug testing?
A license to maim, but no testing?
Licensed to maim, but no drug tests?
Licensed to maim or kill, without drug testing, is wrong!
Licensed to maim or kill, in the ring, without drug testing? It's wrong!

It's you baby, smashup. What do you think? I'm as serious as a heart attack, dude!!

Short memories here.... hasn't Paule has always been somwhat of a powder puff? He always whines when he looses and claims some shit.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

Short memories here.... hasn't Paule has always been somwhat of a powder puff? He always whines when he looses and claims some shit.

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He has never been wiped out like that, ever.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

You cant call it lore and then go on to accept it as truth to try to make a point. I don't think there is anything to dispute the fact one is born a puncher and it can be traced. Its not just word of mouth or urban legend. It can be shown.

Now maybe Porter was weakened lower or higher and has found his niche at 147
It could also be based on the evidence and testimony of others, that he has had a chemical assist.

There is no question that chemistry can enhance both speed and power.

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"You cant call it lore and then go on to accept it as truth to try to make a point. "

I don't know where you think I did that. Lore, truth, whatever. My point isn't based on whether it's true or not. I simply stated that that is what most boxing fans believe.

"There is no question that chemistry can enhance both speed and power."

Nobody asked that question. The question was whether or not PED's could turn Porter from an average puncher into a puncher so fierce that Paulie, who has faced more than a few big punchers in his day, would say "holy shit, I've never felt power like that".

There's absolutely no evidence that PED's have a large, significant effect on punching power. None.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

Short memories here.... hasn't Paule has always been somwhat of a powder puff? He always whines when he looses and claims some shit.

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He has never been wiped out like that, ever.

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Totally unexpected!

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

Short memories here.... hasn't Paule has always been somwhat of a powder puff? He always whines when he looses and claims some shit.

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He has never been wiped out like that, ever.

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Hes now 33 and an old 33. He took a lot of punishment against Broner, Cano, Khan, Hatton. It may have finally caught up with him?

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

You cant call it lore and then go on to accept it as truth to try to make a point. I don't think there is anything to dispute the fact one is born a puncher and it can be traced. Its not just word of mouth or urban legend. It can be shown.

Now maybe Porter was weakened lower or higher and has found his niche at 147
It could also be based on the evidence and testimony of others, that he has had a chemical assist.

There is no question that chemistry can enhance both speed and power.

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"You cant call it lore and then go on to accept it as truth to try to make a point. "

I don't know where you think I did that. Lore, truth, whatever. My point isn't based on whether it's true or not. I simply stated that that is what most boxing fans believe.

"There is no question that chemistry can enhance both speed and power."

Nobody asked that question. The question was whether or not PED's could turn Porter from an average puncher into a puncher so fierce that Paulie, who has faced more than a few big punchers in his day, would say "holy shit, I've never felt power like that".

There's absolutely no evidence that PED's have a large, significant effect on punching power. None.

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There's shitloads of evidence that proves the vastly improve explosive power in an athlete and endurance, stamina......

Ben Johnson
Lance Armstrong
Loads and loads of others too ;)

Increase a boxers power,stamina and endurance and its russian roulette time for the other fighter.... people chatting shit about the cost of testing each fighter?

Do me a fucking favour, the fighters should make a stand and refuse to fight unless its enforced worldwide.. simple really.

On a side note I spoke to a girl mate of mine today called Claire Yeates who's fella runs the gym in fueterventura (canary islands-spain) where Kell left a few days ago to fly to California.
She said he's in amazing shape and totally focused and bang up for this fight.
That people is gospel ;)

The Uk needs Kell to bring the belt home and I'm convinced we will see him operate in a different gear and win on the 16th.