What a fight. George would club him out in 5 rounds. Foreman's chin was too tough.
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What a fight. George would club him out in 5 rounds. Foreman's chin was too tough.
The 93 to 95 Foreman was better than the 73 version. jmo... the 90's one learned how to box. The 73 version gassed out and clubbed- but after 6 rounds, he was easy pickings.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Tyson wins by his speed and greater boxing skills. Awesome fight.
Mike by early KO IMO
remember george"s iron chin
I think if Ron Lyle could hurt George, so could Tyson who was much faster, more accurate and probably hit harder.
I'm actually thinking Tyson by points. Both would take a lot to be hurt but would both get there by around round 7 or 8 by which point both have been boiled down enough to fight in fits and spurts. Maybe a coupe of knockdowns, whatever way they go but no stoppages and Tyson looking the sharper and more effective, hence points win.
George loved short, squat guys who came to him. Boxers like Ali and Jimmy Young presented him with problems at that time because he was all offense and would gas. He blows Tyson out and manhandles him. Old George (80's n 90's) does as well, but eats more shots. Horrible match up for Tyson.
There were those reports that Tyson avoided Foreman in the early nineties....
I would've loved to have seen prime Tyson vs Mike Moorer. Tyson stops him, but THAT fight would've been brutally violent for as long as it lasted!!!
That Tyson would have decapitated Foreman. There was about two years in Tysons career that imo he would have beaten up and most likely stopped anyone in history.
I agree with @ykdadamaja Foreman was a much better boxer after Jimmy Young sent him off to find his lord.
Normally not much into 19xx "So-and-so" vs. 19xx "What's-his-face".
But this would've been an awesome matchup.
Maybe it's such a fascinating fantasy matchup to ponder, because of the sorry state the HW division is in.
I'd have to pick Tyson, because of his sheer handspeed and movement. I doubt big George would be able to land cleanly on the bobbing and weaving Mike. Joe Frazier was a bobber and weaver too... but George was able to time him perfectly. I think Tyson would've been a more elusive target. Tyson's murderous bombs would've had more effect on Foreman than Frazier's punches ever could. Maybe not a one-punch KO, but he would've wobbled George enough to where his finishing instinct would've taken over.
Early Tyson too shifty on feet and hands and gets inside early Foreman load up and off balance windmill. Old Foreman was studied patience and used all his natural gifts, mentally superior to Tyson...I think THAT Foreman stops any version of Tyson underneath..bit of a role reversal in attack. Moorer would be pants around the ankles and flattened vs the young or old Tyson. Too shocking one hit power and that is what made Moorer dance.
Foreman wins a war inside 3 rounds for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
exactly
Agree Tyson and Foreman had very good chins so they may have taken the brutal punches and it going to a points decision, like Tyson v Ruddock, if no one was obliterated early on when they are both fresh and strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Point 1;
Two men with a lot in common.
Brutal power, Unbridled aggression and a menacing aura made them perhaps the two most intimidating fighters in history.
(I'd put those stares before even Dempsey and Hagler.)
Therein lies the advantage.
Both thrived on the fear they could instill in opponents.
Every fighter feels nerves and fear before they fight.
George Foreman said that his knees were shaking when he stood in front of Joe Frazier.
He didnt show it. Their first fight was a grotesque display of power. Foreman's power.
Tyson's psyche was less concrete.
We all remember the story of him crying before his am fights. In his entire career Tyson never beat a fighter of the golden era calibre.
(Holmes was well spent and Spinks wasn't a HW.)
When nose to nose with the much larger Foreman how would Tyson react when faced with a man just as "bad" as himself, void of any fear and with nothing but bad intentions.
Point 2;
People often forget that George could box.
He has often expressed regret that he is remembered as the slugger outfoxed by the Greatest. He actually aspired to box like SRR or the Cassius Clay that beat SL.
He is rarely commended for his Olympic Gold Medal. not easily won.
If that arguement fails me;
If James Douglas had enough power, Foreman could have done the job quicker.
excellent analysis Donny
Bloody good point Donny :coolclick:
Tyson was a brute not unlike Foreman, both feared by there opponents, they meet in
the ring, no nicety's just pure hatred of each other.
The speed and combinations of Tyson V the brute power of Foreman to close to call
this sit on the fence and enjoy.:)
Donny knows nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Tyson does not stand there and get hit like Frazier. Mike punched and moved to the sides and explodes with even more combinations. Tyson was elusive and you could counts on one hand the amount of times he was caught clean.
1-Lets be honest, the 1973 George Foreman could not box his way out of a doorway. Yes he won the Olympic gold but he clubbed the majority of his opponents out who were overcome by his size. He sports a 22-4 amateur record with most of his wins ending in similar fashion.
2-He never beat one golden era hev in their prime outside of Frazier but let’s be honest here again, I love Joe Frazier but he was a one handed fighter.
3-Yes he wiped Norton out but Nortons cross armed crab like drag one foot come forward style was perfect for big George. Not only that, Kenny was coming off 2 twelve round wars with Ali that took place in 6 months.
4-Tyson was most likely the fastest hev in history, had no neck with some of the best head movement for a big man that I have ever seen. He had great feet and could come off either side with bone crushing power
5-Cus D’amato’s math;
1 - Left hook to head.
2 - Straight right to head/right hook to head.
3 - Left uppercut.
4 - Right uppercut.
5 - Left hook to body.
6 - Right hook to body.
7 - Jab to head.
8 - Jab to body.
Tyson would mix 5 and 6 punch combinations in any order of those numbers possible with bad intentions on every shot.
Not only was that not the same Tyson in the Douglas fight but that Buster Douglas was perfect on the night and was not going to be denied. I'm not convinced that it would have mattered who was in front of him regardless of the blimp that showed up against Holyfield.
No offense to George as he was a freak in many ways but he’d think he was fighting a crowd.
Anyone who picks against Foreman must have got hit by Foreman in the past.
Or you have been knocked out by Tyson? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Tyson was a bully....Foreman was a bigger bully. Both were scary in their primes. I think Foreman steamrolls Tyson...may have to recover or get off the floor to do it, but Foreman would catch him and finish it. Tyson never got off the canvas to win...and George wouldn't get blasted out in 1-4 either. Once you get to the 5th, Tyson starts to slow
Agrreed. If he goes down, he is getting up and getting meaner. Foreman may have got hit with a knockdown or even two, but he will finish this show. He always finished the show except for against The Greatest. Jimmy Young fought a mentally confused/ready to retire/self-conflicted Foreman. Only Ali had the guile and the chin/body to do it. Tyson coming straight at George would run into a fucking clobbering telephone pole.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Tyson has the better hand speed, the better defence, the better movement and the same kind of power.
Peak Tyson ate big, slow guys for breakfast and Foreman would either be knocked out after 6 or 7 rounds or lose a one-sided decision.
Foreman was hit, hurt and decked by lesser fighters than Tyson.
There has never been such a brutal display of awesome power shown by a challenger in the history of Heavyweight boxing than what we saw with Foreman's demolition of Joe Frazier in 1973. This was Joe Frazier...conqueror of the great Muhammad Ali, a man who had taken all before him in the previous 10 years of his career. An Olympic gold medalist and undefeated World Heavyweight Champion and Foreman enters the ring and punches him around the ring like a rag doll. Foreman in 1973 is a monster, a powerhouse the Heavyweight division has never seen before. Ali studied him closely in this fight and his next two, by the time Foreman fought Ali he had only 5 rounds under his belt and Ali exposed this vulnerability and realised big George sent out messages that a punch was coming via the Pony Express! Foreman v Tyson in 1973 is a short fight, Tyson goes 2 rounds and receives similar treatment to Smokin' Joe.
I agree. A good jab bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Lewis, Douglas and Holyfield. Big men also bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Douglas, Tucker and Lewis. George was a big guy with a punishing jab. Once he starts manhandling Mike it is all she wrote. Tyson mentally breaks n is done by the 10th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
You are both talking about a shattered Tyson and looking at how it ended and not at his peak as a fighter. Making a big deal about Lewis beating that shell is like making one over Marciano/Louis or Tarver stopping Roy.Tyson was already a basket case before he fought Douglas. Guys like Tucker and Smith hugged Mike to death. They never had a strategy outside of survival. Not sure what this Foreman jab you are talking about in 1973 is. He had a much better jab in 1987 and was even faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI agree. A good jab bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Lewis, Douglas and Holyfield. Big men also bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Douglas, Tucker and Lewis. George was a big guy with a punishing jab. Once he starts manhandling Mike it is all she wrote. Tyson mentally breaks n is done by the 10th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Joe Frazier had a left hook and bobbed and weaved. Tyson was a two handed fighter who took bobbing and weaving to an entirely different level and was much, much faster then Frazier. Foreman was slower in 73 then the second coming of Christ. I like Ron Lyle but Foreman went life and death with him and if Tyson put him down like Lyle did he would finish the job. Foremans lumbering octopus routine would not work with the prime Tyson. Mike would explode underneath and Foreman would not know what hit him and they would be concussive and multiple.
Tyson fought and beat plenty of big men and ones with good jabs.
Mike Tyson is not Joe Frazier he is completely a different fighter. Joe had probably better heart, courage and determination but Mike was bigger, faster and more skilled fighter/puncher.
Foreman could get up off the canvas, recover, and win.....Tyson could not. Once Big George touched Tyson the game would have been up. George is just too big, too strong, too intimidating.
Could Tyson win? Yeah of course he could. Would Tyson win? I don't believe so.
that is it.... too big, too strong. I remember my friend in '74 repeating that like a mantra, over and over, too big, too strong, about George. He is a freak of nature. Nobody is doing anything to him except Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Foreman fought Lyle in 1976. we're talking about Foreman from January 1973? It's true Tyson was formidable in his prime, but what was his prime? 1986-1989? Tyson's prime was a relatively short timespan and was effectively done before he was 24yrs old. Frazier was a seasoned professional fighter with 8 years professional experience before fighting Foreman and he was made to look like a fool by big George. Every time Frazier tired to explode underneath he was pushed away with ease. Foreman of January 1973 v Tyson of 1987 still goes the same way, Foreman is too big and simply to powerful for Mike Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou are both talking about a shattered Tyson and looking at how it ended and not at his peak as a fighter. Making a big deal about Lewis beating that shell is like making one over Marciano/Louis or Tarver stopping Roy.Tyson was already a basket case before he fought Douglas. Guys like Tucker and Smith hugged Mike to death. They never had a strategy outside of survival. Not sure what this Foreman jab you are talking about in 1973 is. He had a much better jab in 1987 and was even faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI agree. A good jab bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Lewis, Douglas and Holyfield. Big men also bothered Tyson as evidenced in his fights vs Douglas, Tucker and Lewis. George was a big guy with a punishing jab. Once he starts manhandling Mike it is all she wrote. Tyson mentally breaks n is done by the 10th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Joe Frazier had a left hook and bobbed and weaved. Tyson was a two handed fighter who took bobbing and weaving to an entirely different level and was much, much faster then Frazier. Foreman was slower in 73 then the second coming of Christ. I like Ron Lyle but Foreman went life and death with him and if Tyson put him down like Lyle did he would finish the job. Foremans lumbering octopus routine would not work with the prime Tyson. Mike would explode underneath and Foreman would not know what hit him and they would be concussive and multiple.
If I remember correctly, Mike Tyson was always vulnerable to a right uppercut. I remember Tony Tucker hurt him and push him back in their fight in the 1st round before he broke his right hand and never threw that right uppercut again. Tucker magnificently timed Tyson in that 1st round, furthermore Tyson was wobbly and badly hurt at the end of the Bonecrusher Smith fight, it wasn't a right uppercut but an overhand right that was timed when Tyson lunged in.
George Foreman in '73, although crude in style more than likely will catch Tyson lunging in. If guys like Bonecrusher and Tucker could hurt and wobble Tyson like that with timed shots, I can see Big George catching Tyson. Sure Big George was crude back then, but best believe if he catches you, it's over.
I just keep seeing the early Foreman as much more vulnerable to that speed combo than older version. A lot of mistakes for Tyson to exploit also.That almost sounds backwards but Foreman would fight likewise, heavy planted front foot and just have more vulnerabilities on instinct to match power. In either scenario..Foremans end game would be coming underneath... as Tyson would bob-weave and get that almost over exaggerated bend in the knees he had spots of. He'd over rely on the springing up and get a bit stiff. There is when Foreman forces his heels and takes the side to side step away for enough. Still think it more doable for relaxed geezer Foreman. Man I wish that would match came off then
As a self proclaimed peek-a-boo expert, I can announce you the verdict on Foreman vs Tyson for a small fee of 100 USD. PM who is interested
My first reaction was based on Tyson being the better athlete with comparable overall resilience, just being able to be more effective for the majority of skirmishes and exchanges.
However, I hadn't considered the psychological element of the match-up, which kinda hints that Tyson would loose it.
George was not very stable tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Tyson was a very sensitive and emotional guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminGeorge was not very stable tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
At times a complete train-wreck of a man.
The intimidation of Foreman would have gotten to him in some way. I'm not entirely sure how - but I'm sure it would upset him.