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Robert Garcia: "Pacquiao is one of the best in history, and just the fact that we’ve made it that far is what pleases us. We tried to win, we tried everything possible but Pacquiao is Pacquiao."
Is Manny one of the best in history in you eyes? Top 30 maybe?
source Robert Garcia: “I do not feel the urge of getting back at Pacquiao. Pacquiao is one of the best in history!”
Easily one of the best, or at least he was during his prime. Only Hop has beaten a comparable level of competition. Floyd has some solid wins, as does Evander, Oscar, Pernell and Lennox Lewis, but I don't feel that those guys have beaten as many guys on the level of prime Barrera, Morales, JMM, Ledwaba, Cotto...etc. I feel that the Hatton that Floyd beat was superior to the Hatton Pac beat, but I also feel that the Cotto Manny beat was better than the version Floyd beat. Manny and Floyd (and Hop) are ATG top 20 guys in my opinion.
He didn't beat prime Berrera, Morales or JMM. And Cotto obviously had trouble with the weight . Pac would have beaten him anyway but the fact Cotto fought well into JMW or higher from then on shows he wasn't comfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Pac has had a phenomenal career. Phenomenal enough that we can speak honestly about it and it doesn't hurt the accomplishment. Most of his best wins the opponent was fresh off a loss in their last fight or the fight previous, usually a really bad beat down. But his record has so much depth we can ignore that and his recent fall guys.
Nice interview, yes, I'm one of those who thinks Manny tops Floyd on the ATG list but I still give much credit to the boxing skills, women beating and weekly reader reading Floyd. Seriously, I am glad I am a fan during the reign of these two greats.
Pac is one of the greatest of all time, no doubt. Complete monster.
Barrera was coming off the domination of Hamed and victory over Morales. JMM was in his prime during second and third fights with Manny. Manny ruined Morales in the rematch and then finished him in the rubber match. Cotto is tiny at 160 and small at 154. He is like 5'7", so I disagree that the weight hurt him. Ledwaba was favored and an excellent fighter. Oscar was much larger and past his prime. Margo was never the same after the wraps n Shane. Clottey was a punching bag but much larger and durable. Oscar Larios was a tough fighter and is an underrated win for Manny. Bradley was undefeated and ranked #3 p4p when they fought. Manny is a beast and has a GREAT resume.
It's amazing that people would even question it. The fact that people don't think Floyd and Pac are ATG's shows what a bunch of weak-minded "golden age" obsessed phonies most boxing fans are.
Floyd and Pac belong in the same conversation as any boxer who ever lived and that's just a fact. Pac is a beast.
Agree with you for the most part. I will say that those that put Mayweather or Pac over guys like Robinson, Armstrong, Ali...etc. aren't being objective either. They are in the conversation for top 20 in my opinion, but ahead of Leonard, Duran and guys of that stature is a little much. Both have faced some respectable competition, but not on the level of those guys. Both need that win plus one more significant win or historical feat to reach that Top 10 level. Where they are is still extremely impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Pac should be in everyone top 15 of all time
Better than Floyd, no doubt... it isn't about the losses, but the quality of fights and opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxingfan91
Of course he's one of them. Incredible record and what he did for a few years after moving up from 130 is legendary. He was destroying guys that people would have laughed off the idea of him fighting not long before he did.
Is there another guy in history who competed as a pro flyweight and continued on to be a world class welterweight, let alone great one:dontknow:
I'm not convinced that those guys fought better opposition than Floyd and Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I find that people will go through the records of modern guys with a fine tooth comb, but give yesterday's greats the benefit of the doubt. Sugar Ray Robinson, Armstrong... these guys fought a LOT of bums that didn't belong in the ring with them - guys of a level that, if Floyd or Pac tried to fight that kind of level today - the athletic commissions would not allow it.
I personally think when you look at in ring talent, it's SRR, Floyd, and everyone else. No one had the complete package like those guys did.
I don't care where people rank Floyd, but if they don't have him in their top 20 at least, I know that their opinion about anything boxing related is useless.
Floyd is an asshole and a P.O.S but his skill and accomplishments have to be acknowledged.
What you are saying about those guys fighting bums and not being called on it is true, to a degree. The other half of that statement is that they weren't fighting once or twice a year back then, they were fighting almost every other month. When u r in the ring that much, u can't take on an elite guy every time because there just aren't that many elite guys around. Back then pretty much every match up you wanted to see came to fruition, for the most part (guys like Burley and Langford felt the affects of being frozen out/avoided). Robinson fought Kid Gavilan, Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, Rocky Graziano, Henry Armstrong, Jake Lamotta and Joey Maxim to name a few off the too of my head. You can't compare that group with Chico Corrales, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, and Jose Castillo. Floyd has fought some good competition, but he hasn't faced the murderers that those guys faced. It isn't to say Floyd isn't an ATG or would have lost to all of them, but just like Rocardo Lopez is hurt by lack of available ATG competition, Floyd is hurt as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI'm not convinced that those guys fought better opposition than Floyd and Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I find that people will go through the records of modern guys with a fine tooth comb, but give yesterday's greats the benefit of the doubt. Sugar Ray Robinson, Armstrong... these guys fought a LOT of bums that didn't belong in the ring with them - guys of a level that, if Floyd or Pac tried to fight that kind of level today - the athletic commissions would not allow it.
Are we talking top 20 based off of what our subjective view of talent/skill is, or are we talking too 20 based off accomplishments? Two different discussions and I can see a case where Floyd isn't too 20 in accomplishments. Maybe that means I'm useless and don't know boxing though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Manny is ATG for what he has achieved from such a low weight and smashing fighters as he went up the division. So much so that certain fighters got amazed and scared to take him on.