Pac has a better shot at beating Floyd NOW than several years ago

I'm not going to get into all the "This fight has lost its luster/They should have fought years ago" talk.

All things considered, Floyd (whom i had projected to beat Pac without much difficulty at one point) would have a very tough time overcoming Pacquaio at this point of his career. This is not to say that PAC hasn't declined as well , but factoring each fighters advantages/disadvantages (speed, reflexes, countering, exposure to punches....) amongst each other then and how they appear now, I can certainly say that Pac has closed the gap with Floyd more than Floyd has widened the gap with him.

I think I agree with that, but I'm not sure where Manny is relative to several years ago either, he certainly isn't the same high octane guy and has been content to stick and move himself in the late rounds. I don't think there's anything to suggest he'd have a chance of stopping Floyd based on the Rios or Bradley fights, and is he really capable of winning rounds without that killer instinct? To me, the Algeri fight should be a pretty good measuring stick of what Pac has left as well. He should still be able to give him a beat down, we'll see..

Pac has to obliterate Algeri for me to at least consider he can beat Mayweather

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Pac has to obliterate Algeri for me to at least consider he can beat Mayweather

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Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

Floyd didnt want to fight pac for a reason. He said on video that he didnt want to get hurt....that was years back, so that that floyd has seemingly slowed down...he really doesnt want to take that chance.

I see pac by stoppage.

If floyd were to fight pac and one other dangerous fighter.....even in a loss he would gain sooo much respect from me just from stepping into the ring with people that can truly fuck him up. If he cherry picks his last two fights...then he is a bitch fo life.

I agree with that. Both guys are clearly out of their prime but maybe Floyd has slid farther, who knows.

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

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How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

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How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

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You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.

I actually agree with this. Back when this fight was first talked about, I thought that Floyd would easily outbox then TKO Pac. At this point, Floyd has slowed down enough to where I think that he would really play it safe and just stay on the outside and hold like we saw in the maidana rematch. I think he still wins but it's tougher and uglier.

I can see the original posters argument here. I still think things are a bit skewed. Floyds legs have rusted up a little and he's not quite as mobile. He's slowing down and might not avoid every punch he's trying to avoid. I still consider Floyd sandbagged with using a bad style for the first part of 1st maidana fight.


With Pac, i'm not saying he's dead in the water but I don't think he's back to his best. A knockout like that changes a fighter. Not to mention he's taken his foot off the gas in fights prior to that. Pac fought on and that's great. Rebounding against rios (who was a limited slugger that's there to take a beating) and Bradley rematch (but everyone knew pac won the first fight anyway)


If we still believe these too are the best 2 fighters at the weight. I'd like to see Pacquiao win but I still think Floyds bigger at the weight and his style will be the ace up his sleeve. Unless Freddy's got a hell of game plan up his sleeve and Manny pressing every minute of every round.. its hard to really feel that Manny would be in control of the fight unless Floyds mentally distracted which is entirely possible considering the split with golden boy (forcing him to be lead promoter) and Ellerbe.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Pac has to obliterate Algeri for me to at least consider he can beat Mayweather

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He will more than obliterate Algeiri. He will beat Algeiri worse than he did Rios... everyone can see it coming.

Hope Algieri make a good chunk of change as a result of this beating. Hope he gets knocked out and doesn't take too much damage...

I like many others agree with the original poster that the gap has narrowed, but I still think Floyd Wins.

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Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

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How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

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You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.

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Exactly I knew someone would mention that. Then he backs it up with not being a beliver in boxing math????!?!?

Pac beat him how many times, and yet kept fighting him. Jmm finnaly ko's pac, but not before getting the blood beat out of him....jmm was leaking do you remember that. and like I said, who has floyd obliterated in the last few years

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Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

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How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

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You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.

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Nobody considers it a great win for Floyd. But JMM has admitted himself he has no chance against Floyd and that Floyd would beat PAC. Just like Hatton said Floyd would beat Psc. And Mosley said. And Delahoya said. Who has said PAC would beat Floyd other than fans, Bob Arum, and Roach? We know Roach is a liar and Arum hahahaha, look through the threads and you will see fans lie about Floyd. So who really believes PAC would beat Floyd?

I disagree and believe Floyd knows he has a better chance know which is why it didnt happen earluier. Manny relies on pure speed. Floyd has so much more to his game. A slowdown with age damages Pac more than Floyd.

I agree with the OP.
I think it's a 50/50 fight now but i lean towards Floyd's skill to win him the fight.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

---

How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

---

You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.

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Nobody considers it a great win for Floyd. But JMM has admitted himself he has no chance against Floyd and that Floyd would beat PAC. Just like Hatton said Floyd would beat Psc. And Mosley said. And Delahoya said. Who has said PAC would beat Floyd other than fans, Bob Arum, and Roach? We know Roach is a liar and Arum hahahaha, look through the threads and you will see fans lie about Floyd. So who really believes PAC would beat Floyd?

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To add to that list many sparring partners who have sparred both men also pick Floyd to win.

Pacquiao doesn't use a swarmer style like Maidana, which I think is what caused Mayweather much of the trouble. I think Floyd is getting older, so that plays a part too, but since Pacquiao won't be shoving Mayweather into the corner and swinging punches from high and low, I think Mayweather will have the opportunity to use more of his outside boxing skills which I think he prefers at this point.

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

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Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

---

How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

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You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.

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That would be a valid argument if Floyd had just out muscled JMM, the difference in boxing ability was clear to see.

The argument is not that Floyd's win over JMM was great, it's about their respective styles and what they tell us regarding pac.

Pacman has no chance of beating floyd. People are getting carried away because of the maidana fights but maidana is so awkward to fight it's hard to look good against him.

i gree pac has a better chance now than hhas had a certain points but the pac that beat cotto, hatton, margarito was awesome, i think at that time it would have been a difficult one to pic

If they fought now it would be a very cautious affair I think. It looks like the day's of Floyd ever coming close to knocking someone out are over and I think the same can be said of Pacman who would of KO'd Tim Bradley at his peak.. like many people have said lets see what happens in Pac's next fight to see where he stands in the boxing world today.

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Originally Posted by Sleepwalker

I'm not going to get into all the "This fight has lost its luster/They should have fought years ago" talk.

All things considered, Floyd (whom i had projected to beat Pac without much difficulty at one point) would have a very tough time overcoming Pacquaio at this point of his career. This is not to say that PAC hasn't
declined as well , but factoring each fighters advantages/disadvantages (speed, reflexes, countering, exposure to punches....) amongst each other then and how they appear now, I can certainly say that Pac has closed the gap with Floyd more than
Floyd has widened the gap with him.

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I have have to say I disagree . It is not like PAC is looking to engage anymore. His power seems to be gone and the light hitting Bradley shook Manny. Appears Manny is still brittle and one punch away from crawling into a shell and will always be that way for balance of his career .

Pac is worse now and past his impressive peak years ago when he was storming through the division.

Bump...

I disagree...but its worth considering if PacMan's decline has been exaggerated. After stopping ODLH, Hatton, and Cotto, he hasn't seen a KO, other than his own.

But a lot of his opponents simply did not come to fight. Clottey instead showed-off his (admittedly remarkable) ability to cover his entire upper body with his arms, and stay that way for an entire fight. Mosely ran...except for between rounds. Then he hugged, kissed and whispered sweet nothings. I exaggerate, but seriously, the guy kept trying to touch gloves and make various sportsmanlike gestures of good will. He was not there to fight.

Algieri was there to survive and, to a large degree, so was Bradley. It's hard to KO guys who don't throw punches. Only Rios and Margarito do not fit this paradigm. But Margarito was pretty beaten up. I forget what happened with Rios but iirc the fight was not competitive.

This brings us along to JMM, who obviously came to fight...albeit via counterpunching. But lost in the brutal KO-ending is the fact that Marquez's face was almost falling off at the time. He was bloodied, disfigured, and having a hard time breathing. I don't know how much longer he could've went on had he not delivered that perfectly timed uppercut.

PBF will come to fight. Not brawl, obviously. Nor will he stand straight up like ODLH...or come straight forward like Hatton. He will fight carefully and with precision like, well, JMM...except with superior defense and frankly superior all-around skill. That makes him the favorite of course, especially if we're using the last JMM-Pac fight as a reference. But we shouldn't forget how close JMM came to being stopped himself.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by chris6878

Floyd has obliterated who to make you think he can beat pac?

---

How about the guy who KTFO Pac and arguably beat him 4 times?

I'm not a big believer in boxing math (A>B, B>C, A>C), but Pac struggled hard with JMM's mobile counter punching, and Floyd proved that JMM isn't even in his league in terms of counter punching, speed, and overall skill.

---

You do have to remember that he jumped two weight classes just for Floyd to not even make weight so I don't know why people consider this such a great win for Floyd.

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Nobody considers it a great win for Floyd. But JMM has admitted himself he has no chance against Floyd and that Floyd would beat PAC. Just like Hatton said Floyd would beat Psc. And Mosley said. And Delahoya said. Who has said PAC would beat Floyd other than fans, Bob Arum, and Roach? We know Roach is a liar and Arum hahahaha, look through the threads and you will see fans lie about Floyd. So who really believes PAC would beat Floyd?

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It would be best for team Pac that almost everyone believe that Floyd will win. Such train of thought will result to more credits will be given to a Pac win as compared to a Floyd win.

And besides, betting on Pac and him winning will probably make you rich. :)

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Originally Posted by Master

Pac is worse now and past his impressive peak years ago when he was storming through the division.

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You don't think Manny has a chance?

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

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Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

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Originally Posted by Master

Pac is worse now and past his impressive peak years ago when he was storming through the division.

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You don't think Manny has a chance?

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No he has very little chance. @Manju just confirmed that Floyd will use his boxing skills, counter punching and overall size to prove he is the best welterweight in the world.

I would love Manny to win, just love it but honestly can not see it happen.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

---

Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

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What I cant understand is that there have been 4 TYPES of manny against marquez on 4 different occasions!

Explain why all 4 versions were all close and they was no clear winner excluding the last fight!

All boxers loose speed and reflexes but manny being faster or better in his early days still didn't overrule marquez and floyd is better than marquez in every way.!

Imagine if floyd had four close fights with Castillo at different primes of his life and on the last fight he got knocked out...are we to believe that an undefeated manny wouldn't destroy a wife beating floyd with 5 losses?!

Flip the script and take a look at how stupid some of you all sound when the shoe is on the other foot.

Smh.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

---

Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

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What I cant understand is that there have been 4 TYPES of manny against marquez on 4 different occasions!

Explain why all 4 versions were all close and they was no clear winner excluding the last fight!

All boxers loose speed and reflexes but manny being faster or better in his early days still didn't overrule marquez and floyd is better than marquez in every way.!

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Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Incredible how Floyd haters will say the absolute most moronic things. "Pac has a better shot now..."?! "Floyd has slipped more...."?! What made Pac unique was his athleticism and output. Both have slipped CONSIDERABLY. His speed is not what it was. His power (whatever the reason) is not what it was. And even his nonstop volume is not what it was. Unlike Floyd, he doesn't have the tremendous skill set and ring IQ to fall back on. Put all that aside....Marquez showed that Pac cannot handle slick counter punchers...and Floyd even NOW is a big step up from JMM. Floyd has slowed...but even this version of him would box the ears of Manny.

---

Why is it moronic to suggest that Manny has a better shot now then he did years ago? It should be obvious to anyone that Floyd has lost a step or two. He does not have the legs he used to and refrains even fighting off the back foot. And he does not like southpaws. In fact the entire family hates them. The hate them because Floyds operating behind the left shoulder has been geared toward orthodox fighters.This goes as far back as Sammy when there were no southpaws and those that did exist were quickly converted to orthodox.

People keep talking about his success with southpaws, like what? The only thing Ortiz confirmed was that Cortez was a hack and that Vic seemed more interested in sticking his tongue down Floyds throat then he was fighting him. Plus he was an average fighter at best, slow and rinse and repeat. Same with Guerrero, just how special a leftie was he? Not very. Better then Ortiz perhaps but so what and he is most likely slower. Fundamentally sound enough to beat the likes of the sloppy Berto and grind it out against Aydin but hardly the Lew Tendler of his time.

Its not good enough to just be a southpaw. If you dont have the movement and speed to go along with it its just another day at the office for Floyd. Mitchell had some but might as well have entered the ring with his hands duct taped to his thighs. Every time he even got into position both his hands were down and negated everything all on his own. Chop Chop was the first guy to really reveal some kinks from the southpaw side and however brief it was because of his movement and speed as shown here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A

Floyd is nowhere near as mobile as he was at that time in his career and Corley was not as fast as Manny is today or carry the same buzz on his shots. Should Manny get Floyd into a similar position it will provide some interesting elements cause Manny wont let him off the hook. Judah gave him grief also and who knows how much better he could have done if he was focused like Manny is sure to be and not so mentally inept. It may not mean as much to historians and legacy with several asterisks to go along with its entry into the books but its more of a 50/50 fight today then it has ever been.

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What I cant understand is that there have been 4 TYPES of manny against marquez on 4 different occasions!

Explain why all 4 versions were all close and they was no clear winner excluding the last fight!

All boxers loose speed and reflexes but manny being faster or better in his early days still didn't overrule marquez and floyd is better than marquez in every way.!

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Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.

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Its pretty obvious that manny should have changed trainers when he couldn't crack the marquez code.

Floyd is a far superior counter puncher than marquez and better in EVERY skillset including chin.

Those videos highlight that floyd is not perfect and can be bothered with speed but guess what...he still adjusts and ends up winning!!!

And thats the difference between floyd and manny..floyd has a second gear but manny is stuck on auto.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.

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Its pretty obvious that manny should have changed trainers when he couldn't crack the marquez code.

Floyd is a far superior counter puncher than marquez and better in EVERY skillset including chin.

Those videos highlight that floyd is not perfect and can be bothered with speed but guess what...he still adjusts and ends up winning!!!

And thats the difference between floyd and manny..floyd has a second gear but manny is stuck on auto.

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I dont see it that way. It was Marquez who took 4 fights to land the sweet shot and that was after bulking up and making his camp right hand specific for the 4th fight. He's the one that could not crack it. He stood there like a venus fly trap and Manny finally walked in. Floyd does not and will not fight him that way and Manny wont use pressure the way Maidana did. That video shows what has been long known. The shell from the orthodox side has problems with speedy movers that are southpaws that have above average straight left hands.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Huh? Manny fought Marquez the same way all four times. Marquez and Floyd are both counter punchers but the similarities end there. How those fights turned out has nothing to do with how this one does or could.

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Its pretty obvious that manny should have changed trainers when he couldn't crack the marquez code.

Floyd is a far superior counter puncher than marquez and better in EVERY skillset including chin.

Those videos highlight that floyd is not perfect and can be bothered with speed but guess what...he still adjusts and ends up winning!!!

And thats the difference between floyd and manny..floyd has a second gear but manny is stuck on auto.

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I dont see it that way. It was Marquez who took 4 fights to land the sweet shot and that was after bulking up and making his camp right hand specific for the 4th fight. He's the one that could not crack it. He stood there like a venus fly trap and Manny finally walked in. Floyd does not and will not fight him that way and Manny wont use pressure the way Maidana did. That video shows what has been long known. The shell from the orthodox side has problems with speedy movers that are southpaws that have above average straight left hands.

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I disagree.

Marquez made the adjustment.

Marquez is in a far worse condition than manny and made the adjustments because he is a smarter fighter.

Floyd has shown no problems with his recent southpaws and yet again made the adjustment to win against faster, earlier opposition like judAh and Corley.

Making adjustments in under 40 minutes is what its all about to get the W if you cant knockout your opponent.

Marquez and Mayweather can adjust to a level that manny cant against a common opponent..simple as that and the history speaks for itself.

Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?

Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imp

Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?

Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...

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You could argue Floyd should have lost 2 of those fights :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imp

Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?

Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...

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Floyd is lucky that he had his homer Cortez in there for Castillo 2, Hatton and Ortiz or the surprise people got from how well Maidana did may not have been a surprise at all.

In the end this is not the same fight as it would have been even 2 years ago let alone 4 or 5. Manny's chances have increased a great deal and his drive is going to be incredible vs Floyds hubris. And if its going to be as easy as some super fans seem to think it is then there will be nothing to brag about. He simply beat another no hoper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imp

Another question you need to ask yourself is would you rather be the speedy southpaw who caused an opponent trouble or the speedy southpaw who won the fight?

Judah, Corley and Castillo are great fighters who caused trouble but never had enough to get the win against that slower orthodox fighter...

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Floyd is lucky that he had his homer Cortez in there for Castillo 2, Hatton and Ortiz or the surprise people got from how well Maidana did may not have been a surprise at all.

In the end this is not the same fight as it would have been even 2 years ago let alone 4 or 5. Manny's chances have increased a great deal and his drive is going to be incredible vs Floyds hubris. And if its going to be as easy as some super fans seem to think it is then there will be nothing to brag about. He simply beat another no hoper.

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No fight is ever easy but floyd will outbox manny just like he has been outboxed before..its nothing new.

Was Martinez lucky with the punch he threw at Paul Williams or was garcia lucky with the punch against khan?

Don't bring luck into this.

Floyd has had a few close fights with southpaws and adjustments were made to get the win.

Manny has been beaten 5 times already and recently got knocked out by a 40 year old Mexican with dodgy knees.

I deal with facts and history speaks for itself so if your happy to be a speedy southpaw like Judah or Castillo that gave floyd a competitive fight but then LOST then I respect your decision.