Do people actually believe there exists a champion in the history of boxing...

...who never ducked/avoided anyone? Are we really that naive as boxing fans?

Ducking doesn't necessarily mean scared, and it doesn't even have to mean that the fighter felt they couldn't beat the guy they ducked. It could just be a situation where a tougher guy didn't have the name value of a softer opponent, and offered a shittier risk/reward ratio. It doesn't even necessarily mean the fighter himself ducked an opponent - it might been the choice of a manager/handler.

What's next, are we going to believe these guys weren't fucking around on their wives too?

I agree. Everybody has ducked someone here or there. Some people have gotten away with it better than others. Like when you had to fight multiple times a year, it's a little harder to duck people although it still happened. Fighting once or twice a year makes it easier to miss fights.

Sometimes fights don't happen... there are only so many guys one can fight in a career. Manny doesn't duck, but it doesn't mean that he hasn't missed key fights at key times.

Not everyone that calls you out you should consider either.

Not all fighters "duck" other fighters. Circumstances happen (Cotto being stopped by Margo, Shane upset by Forrest...etc.). Sometimes it's simplyba matter of business. Winky wright was a tough fight, but worse than that he was hard to look good against and he brought no money. Oscar never fought him, but I don't consider that a duck. Paul Williams was exciting and was building a base to fight Floyd n then lost to Cantana. Can't fault Floyd for that. Ricky beat Kostya before Floyd could. Tough to blame Floyd for that one. Sometimes it is mutual. Benn and Eubank didn't want to come to te US to fight Roy n he refused to go over there. That's why I appreciate guys like Manny, Evander, Oscar and Hop. From what I've seen they have out the fans first and sought the toughest challenges throughout their careers.

I generally agree; Charley Burley being the exception to prove the rule. He was the man the best ever (Robinson) avoided; Ray openly admitting: "I am too pretty to fight Burley!"...

Every champion, ever, avoided somebody. Usually because the money wasn't right; aren't too many fighters afraid of getting beat up.
When Bobby czyz was cruiser champion, he was signed to fight Tommy Hearns for 1.5 million (the fight never happened). His mandatory was Orlin Norris and he had a $50,000 offer for that fight. Norris called Bobby a coward because he would rather be stripped of his title than fight Orlin for 50k. Czyz explained that yes, for 50k he was afraid of Orlin Norris, especially since he had a million dollar plus offer to fight somebody else. If somebody offered a million and a half for a Norris fight, then he would no longer be afraid to fight Orlin Norris.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

Every champion, ever, avoided somebody. Usually because the money wasn't right; aren't too many fighters afraid of getting beat up.
When Bobby czyz was cruiser champion, he was signed to fight Tommy Hearns for 1.5 million (the fight never happened). His mandatory was Orlin Norris and he had a $50,000 offer for that fight. Norris called Bobby a coward because he would rather be stripped of his title than fight Orlin for 50k. Czyz explained that yes, for 50k he was afraid of Orlin Norris, especially since he had a million dollar plus offer to fight somebody else. If somebody offered a million and a half for a Norris fight, then he would no longer be afraid to fight Orlin Norris.

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Haha. That is a GREAT example. Sums up what I feel happens most of the time. Some guys like Hop (prior to Tito), Hagler, Liston...etc. were frozen out because guys were scared of them. Most of the time, unfortunately, it is only business.

Muhammid Ali beat and fought everyone.

Evander Holyfield fought everyone.

Muhammid Ali beat and fought everyone.

Evander Holyfield fought everyone.

As did Larry Holmes

Wasn't Brandon Rios a world champion for a while?? He's never ducked once in his whole career.

ummm Joe Louis?

Oscar is tough to beat in terms of fighting the toughest guys out there. Pernell Whitaker went out of his way to fight the toughest guys and I can't think of one guy he ducked. Meldrick Taylor is another guy who fought the best. Remember him going up to 154 to fight Terry Norris? Who does THAT anymore?!?

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Wasn't Brandon Rios a world champion for a while?? He's never ducked once in his whole career.

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Good point, but in this case I think Rios is the poster child for reasons to duck fights, I still like him regardless.

:vd: :p

P4P King that was hilarious

You see perfect examples that it's completely subjective nonsense.
Hop is suggested as having never ducked. But he was set to fight Calzaghe years before he did, contract agreed by all parties and he backed out.
Manny is suggested, same as Hop with his greatest potential rival contract agreed by all involved and he backed out.

These are not he should situations , these are contracts agreed and they backed out. But they never...........subjective nonsense.

I don 't consider either duckers but then again I don't consider anyone duckers. It's all business. It happens more now because the numbers drive things more. When there is 30 million on the line business decisions are made.

I can not Think of one person Evander Holyfeild ducked man was fighting a hall of famer in like his 12 or it was his 15 not sure not going to look for lienel CW title. Then goes up and fights pretty much ever fucking heavyweight to walk the planet sometimes out weighing by like fucking 40 pounds at times.

Yeah when you fight once a week or once a month you dont fight padded 32 and 0 guys or the others that fight once or twice a year to attain that big 0 mark. And wouldn't you know it when you fight as often as other eras did, you lose once in awhile and sometimes to much lesser men. This verses publicity stunts that fight a couple of times a year for millions against no hopers.

John L never fought a black contender. Oh it was racism alright but he and the rest of his crew knew they would have gotten shit kicked also so the colour barrier was convenient.

The same was practiced in every division at the time and how Dixon was able to capture two titles during those days is anyone's guess and then later Johnson via Burns breaking the colour barrier.

Speaking of Johnson, even he ducked fellow African Americans and Canadians when it mattered most but even in his day he was quoted as saying, "there is no money in it"

Langford although not an establishment world champion could not buy a fight and the only people that fought him were the other gents that were being ducked and in many ways, that group was the first Murderers row.

Dempsey ducked anyone darker then an albino. Greb was one of the rare guys of that era that ducked nobody in his 300 fight run.

Speaking of the Murders row, it was not just Burley that Robinson past on, it was the entire crew that fought in his weight area. He did fight Wade after he had retired for 2 years. And it was not just Ray either as the entire establishment belittled and maligned those guys. Moore was the only one of the group to get a title shot. It only took him 160 fights.



The difference today is that money is always used, overused and a cop out. In addition those who most often use it get well over 7 figures fighting janitors. What do you suppose Alvarez will get for fighting Clottey? I mean its hilarious. Its become sanctioned mediocrity. Today there is no need to fight the best because of the cash involved and in fact "ducking" is the accepted norm.