Cassius Clay 'Chickened Out' in fighting Cleveland Williams in 1962.

1962

The paperwork was signed by Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams.

The 'Williams Team' were even willing to fight for less money.

But the LSG Team {Cassius Clay Management Team} decided that they may have bitten off more than Cassius could chew.

A 'stubbed toe' was the excuse to get out of the fight.

You may be right, but Ali went after Williams in a big way when they did fight.
The thing I remember most about that fight was Ali taunting Cleveland from beginning to end and the way Williams' arms were flailing around around when he went down. It was a dominate performance by Ali and one he was proud of.
I liked Ali in the very beginning but have hated him for at least fifty years. The hatred I feel for the prick has never once made me doubt his courage.

Well Said,

But it has been stated by the experts, that it wasn't courage that Muhammad had, but more
of a thick skull.

Thicker than most athlete's.

You have a very thick skull yourself Bill. Nothing seems to get into it except Ali for some reason.

Cleveland Williams

I nearly had Cassius in the Ring. We were supposed to fight on October 23, 1962.

But he and his management came up with some 'weak excuse' to get out of fighting.
They had to pay me $5000 for pulling out, and to release him out of his contract.

Instead, I fought one of his sparring-partners 'Philly' Dave Bailey.

Man, did I want Clay.

Williams got beat by Cassius eventually, so what is the story here. That Williams would have won in 62? You are insane.

I think Sonny had a better case if their rematch was not cancelled. people were saying Sonny looked dangerous and was ready to beat Ali.

Cleveland Williams

October 1962

Cleveland Williams {Age; 29 years, 4 months} at 6' 3" and 209 lbs. was the #4 Heavyweight.

No doubt that the 'Big Cat' was at his best, and was under 'new' management with Bud Adams
and Hugh Benbow. Both were 'very rich' Houston Businessman.

As Cleveland stated,

I had no worries about finances, and the Training Group I had was 'top notch' with Billy Gore
in charge. That alone is 75% of your Boxing Game.

In mid-September 1962 they {LSG} signed an agreement for Cassius to fight me. We were both
supposed to get $35,000.

We were supposed to fight at the Sam Houston Coliseum on October 23rd. But the LSG got real
worried, as they had heard I was looking real sharp in Houston.

Next thing I know, Cassius 'stubbed' his toe and had to pullout. They gave me $5000 for his release
to fight me. Next thing I know, he signs to fight that 'Ancient Old Man' Archie Moore for a
November 15th date at the Sports Arena in Los Angeles.

They 'hoodwinked' me,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Cleveland Williams

October 1962

Cleveland Williams {Age; 29 years, 4 months} at 6' 3" and 209 lbs. was the #4 Heavyweight.

No doubt that the 'Big Cat' was at his best, and was under 'new' management with Bud Adams
and Hugh Benbow. Both were 'very rich' Houston Businessman.

As Cleveland stated,

I had no worries about finances, and the Training Group I had was 'top notch' with Billy Gore
in charge. That alone is 75% of your Boxing Game.

In mid-September 1962 they {LSG} signed an agreement for Cassius to fight me. We were both
supposed to get $35,000.

We were supposed to fight at the Sam Houston Coliseum on October 23rd. But the LSG got real
worried, as they had heard I was looking real sharp in Houston.

Next thing I know, Cassis 'stubbed' his toe and had to pullout. They gave me $5000 for his release
to fight me. Next thing I know, he signs to fight that the 'Ancient Old Man' Archie Moore for a
November 15th date at the Sports Arena in Los Angeles.

They 'hoodwinked' me,

---

are you a old time heavyweight fighter?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

You may be right, but Ali went after Williams in a big way when they did fight.
The thing I remember most about that fight was Ali taunting Cleveland from beginning to end and the way Williams' arms were flailing around around when he went down. It was a dominate performance by Ali and one he was proud of.
I liked Ali in the very beginning but have hated him for at least fifty years. The hatred I feel for the prick has never once made me doubt his courage.

---

Why the hate?

No Hate

Just explaining a 'Manufactured Fighter' who had a little Chicken in him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

No Hate

Just explaining a 'Manufactured Fighter' who had a little Chicken in him.

---

Yes and he went on fight nothing but bums, right?

.......

Exactly.

Ignore it and it will go away.

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

---

Neither because Ali would have and did beat them anyway.

Cleveland Williams was a great puncher.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

---

Neither because Ali would have and did beat them anyway.

---

That is a 'foolish' response.

October 1962

At worst, the 'Big Cat' would have a punchers chance.

Archie just barely made it up the stairs at the Sports Arena in November 1962.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

---

Neither because Ali would have and did beat them anyway.

---

That is a 'foolish' response.

October 1962

At worst, the 'Big Cat' would have a punchers chance.

Archie just barely made it up the stairs at the Sports Arena in November 1962.

---

That is a foolish response?

Do you know what irony is?

I wondered where Il Duce had gone! He has shown up on Saddo's...

Bill has ton of interesting information, if you can get him off the subject of Ali.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

---

Neither because Ali would have and did beat them anyway.

---

That is a 'foolish' response.

October 1962

At worst, the 'Big Cat' would have a punchers chance.

Archie just barely made it up the stairs at the Sports Arena in November 1962.

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Is it his personality you dislike or the fact that hes known as the greatest.?

October 1962

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams

Ring Magazine...... #4
NBA..................... #5

Age.......... 29 years, 4 months
Record ..... 53-4-1 {44 KO's}

Cleveland Williams >

It was supposed to be a Heavyweight Eliminator Bout. I was ranked #4, and somehow Cassius had jumped over me to #2.

I had just beaten a guy that nobody wanted to fight in Ernie Terrell {April 3rd}. Then I flattened {KO 1} Alonzo Johnson
on May 15th. This was the same guy who had given Clay a nightmare last year.

Then I fought a 10-Round Draw with #2-Ranked Eddie Machen on July 10th.

Clay and I had agreed {verbally} on September 10, 1962 ~ for a 10-Round bout at the Sam Houston Coliseum for October 23rd.
This would give us both 6-Weeks to prepare, which was fair.

We were both to get $35,000 for a Fight Purse. Then the 'Chicken Chirping' started. At first, they wanted more money.
Then they wanted the bout moved to Miami Beach. Then they wanted both more money, a new location and a
'return guarantee' if I won.

The 'kicker' was that they wanted me to put $25,000 of my Fight Purse in 'escrow' for a guarantee return match if I won.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams

Ring Magazine...... #4
NBA..................... #5

Age.......... 29 years, 4 months
Record ..... 53-4-1 {44 KO's}

Cleveland Williams >

It was supposed to be a Heavyweight Eliminator Bout. I was ranked #4, and somehow Cassius had jumped over me to #2.

I had just beaten a guy that nobody wanted to fight in Ernie Terrell {April 3rd}. Then I flattened {KO 1} Alonzo Johnson
on May 15th. This was the same guy who had given Clay a nightmare last year.

Then I fought a 10-Round Draw with #2-Ranked Eddie Machen on July 10th.

Clay and I had agreed {verbally} on September 10, 1962 ~ for a 10-Round bout at the Sam Houston Coliseum for October 23rd.
This would give us both 6-Weeks to prepare, which was fair.

We were both to get $35,000 for a Fight Purse. Then the 'Chicken Chirping' started. At first, they wanted more money.
Then they wanted the bout moved to Miami Beach. Then they wanted both more money, a new location and a
'return guarantee' if I won.

The 'kicker' was that they wanted me to put $25,000 of my Fight Purse in 'escrow' for a guarantee return match if I won.

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Ok - ykdadamaja is now the second most annoying cunt on this board.

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

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And his white daughter married a black man.

October 5, 1962

Cassius Clay

"I stubbed my big toe, and now I won't be able to fight Cleveland Williams. We will be
sending my sparring-partner 'Philly' Dave Bailey to test the 'Big Cat' instead."

"Dave will probably send Williams out with a right-hook in 3 Rounds anyway. Then there
will be no good reason to fight him anyway."

October 23, 1962

Sam Houston Coliseum ~ Houston, Texas

Cleveland Williams ~ 53-4-1 {44 KO's} ~ 6' 3" ~ 209 lbs. ~ {Age; 29 years, 4 months}
vs.
Dave Bailey ~ 16-7-2 {11 KO's} ~ 6' 1 1/2" ~ 206 lbs. ~ {Age; 29 years, 9 months}

For a special guest appearance, 'new' Heavyweight Champion ~ Sonny Liston would be the Referee.

Dave 'KO' Bailey was a hard-punching Journeyman/Trial Horse from Philadelphia who brought along
a good right-hand. Dave was also, a primary sparring partner for young upstart Cassius Clay, and
also for Sonny Liston.

Dave was sent in as a 'fill-in' for Cassius who had 'Chickened Out' of this bout. Dave was also supposed
to 'test' the 'Big Cat' for a futrue bout with Cassius.

Dave had been 'unbeaten' since March 21, 1960 {2 years, 7 months}, and was riding a 5-Bout winning
streak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

---

No they just get found out and disappear. Il Duce, Senor Pepe and now Bill Paxtom...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

---

No they just get found out and disappear. Il Duce, Senor Pepe and now Bill Paxtom...

---

Max power was another.

I subscribed to both of them

Il Duce was 'the greatest'. He had immense wit, to go with that 'tongue-in-cheek' teasing.

Senor Pepe was the best poster around. Lots of knowledge in that brain.

They both turned Box/Rec on it's ear, and flushed it down the drain.

..

The Fight

Sam Houston Coliseum ~ Houston, Texas

Attendance ........ { 5130 }

A dull and listless bout over the first 3-Rounds.

World-ranked #5 Cleveland Williams {209 lbs.} was content to slowly stalk, as Dave Bailey {205 lbs.} jabbed lightly and moved to his left.

Cleveland was looking to drop in a left-hook, while Dave was looking to throw an overhand right.

Late in Round 3, the crowd of 5130 started to boo the lack of action. Referee - Sonny Liston stepped in and told both fighters to pick up
the pace. Neither did.

In Round 4, Cleveland started off aggressively, but after 30-Seconds of flailing, he backed off. Dave rallied briefly at the {0:50 Mark}, but
quickly went to defense and hold.

The crowd barked some obscenities, as neither fighter looked sharp.

At the end of Round 4, Sonny went over to Cleveland Williams corner and told him to > "Step it up and get this thing over."

In Round 5, Cleveland came out more aggressively, and early in the Round he scored with hard right-hand that shook Dave. Cleveland
added in a 'left-right' to the face, and Dave reeled a bit. Cleveland then backed Dave up, while landing solid left-hands throughout
the Round.

Late in the Round, Cleveland landed a sharp 'left-right' to the head that had Dave reeling a bit. Dave then backed up towards the
Corner as Cleveland stalked. Cleveland then slammed in a hard 'looping' left-hook to the nose that dropped Dave in a heap at the
{2:45 Mark}.

Referee - Sonny Liston counted out Dave Bailey at {2:56} of Round 5.

Cleveland Williams >
It was hard to get motivated for this fight. Dave was a 'substitute', and he did not present a tough enough challenge. He jabbed,
grabbed and moved for 4 1/2 Rounds. I knew that I would catch him eventually. I know the fans are not happy, but this is what
happens sometimes."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

---

No they just get found out and disappear. Il Duce, Senor Pepe and now Bill Paxtom...

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Max power was another.

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next ıt wıll be orangeclock who people say ıs me. wtf!!!? :mad:

Cleveland Williams

"Cassius should be ashamed of himself. Avoiding me to fight Grandpa Archie Moore.

"That's no challenge. Archie is 45 years old, and +20 lbs. over-weight."

"I heard, Cassius wants to fight Jersey Joe Walcott next."