Good read this focusing on Lennox, Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe :)
http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/...e-heavyweights
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Good read this focusing on Lennox, Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe :)
http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/...e-heavyweights
At the time the fights were brilliant and you expected them to be. Now you really appreciate how great the fights were. We were priviliged.
It was a brilliant era for the division...I really don't recall being bored rigid watching any of those 4 fight ;)
Man reminds you how good it was
Long for those days.I'd stay up right through and shout my dad when the fighters were coming out . He'd get up and it was always edge of seat stuff - you just didn't know what would happen
What went wrong ?!?
Robbed of Bowe v Lewis at the time - that would have been an edge of seater
Riddick Bowe was and remains overhyped....people complain that Tyson didn't fight many greats but Bowe ONLY fought Holyfield. Great record but he fought 0 power punchers, no Tyson, no Lewis, how does he get all the respect??? He was a deeply flawed fighter routinely giving up his height and reach against smaller fighters.
Yeah, there was so much talent, I think we took it for granted.
There were terrific bouts between contenders, and you were excited waiting for the big fight the way you do for World Title fights, but they were just fights between two contenders, often on free network tv.
Lennox Lewis vs Ray Mercer.
Ray Mercer vs Evander Holyfield.
Evander Holyfield vs Alex Stewart.
Mike Tyson vs Razor Ruddock
Smokin Bert Cooper vs Michael Moorer.
Tommy Morrison vs Ray Mercer (WBO wasn't seen as a real World Title).
Tommy Morrison vs Joe Hipp.
Razor Ruddock vs Tommy Morrison.
Riddick Bowe vs Elijah Tillery.
Andrew Golota vs Riddick Bowe.
Samson Po'uha vs Andrew Golota.
Ike Ibeabuchi vs Chris Byrd.
Ike Ibeabuchi vs David Tua.
David Tua vs John Ruiz.
Jimmy Thnuder vs Tim Witherspoon.
Maurice Harris vs Derrick Jefferson.
Just some that come to mind.
Terrific bouts.
Nowadays, they protect them, protect that "0".
A guy gets a Title shot and hasn't developed his skills enough for world class because he was too protected.
That is what made Bowe fun. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I don't think Bowe was a hype job, I think he was lazy and let success get to his head. The Bowe that beat Evander the first time was special. All you have to do is watch that performance and see how great he could have become if he stayed disciplined. Even out of shape he gave a prime Evander his toughest test. While he didn't stay on top long, Riddick was special and his fight vs Lewis not happening is my biggest regret as a fan. More than Quartey vs Tito and Manny vs Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Miss it and loved it! When you think about it what speaks even better about the early 90's was the fact that it was great with even some top flight fights falling through..Tyson-Holyfield x2, Mercer-Bowe, Bowe- Lewis..in a word the division was deep! It had sub categories of top matches ffs. Young guns actually fought and risked the '0', journeymen and second tier guys rose to the occasion and made impact. As crazy as it sounds the epitome of divison to me, in terms of competiveness and available match ups was the Jeremy Williams vs Doc Nicholson showdown of young pro green and highly visible hopefuls. Both flawed in hindsight, single digit pro records but promoters willing to risk a showdown. The era was just..FUN!
I pretty much agree with the article and its a good read for those that haven't read it.
Me and a load of mates always stayed up till 4-5am to catch the big Heavyweight fights because we knew we would get a fight, Drama and entertainment.
Heavyweight boxing died the night Lennox fought Vitali.... there was a glimmer of hope when Haye gatecrashed the division but he bottled it against Wlad.
I'd be amazed if we ever see those days of 20 years ago again, Great days sadly missed!
the last golden age of the heavyweights was pre-wlad klit then next will be post-wlad klit
by golden age you just mean fighters with throwing and landing punches as their main strategy in a fight
Lewis could be very boring. He was Wlads predecessor in the leaning and holding behind the neck.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashup
Riddick Bowe
Had some 'dog' in him.
Borderline between very good and good. Overall Rating > 'B'
He was a 'notch' better than Greg Page
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
He just wasn't very disciplined...if he was then fuck knows how far he'd have gone ;)
When we look back at it, Bowe could NOT have fought Lewis after Bowe's second fight with Holyfield. He was already out of boxing by that time. Golota just destroyed him....
So fighters are "fun" because they lack the skill/dedication to actually be good at what they do? I mean I guess that speaks to why people loved a guy like Arturo Gatti, but at the same time it shows the double standard good/great fighters are subject to...if you don't allow your opponent in the fight then people will get fed up with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat is what made Bowe fun. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I don't think Riddick could hold his own these days...too many guys would take advantage of his flaws and take him on the cards or just knock him out (which would have happened had he ever fought a power puncher).
Look at Bowe's career....one of the shortest primes EVER. His reign as champion lasted about as long as Buster Douglas and Hasim Rahman's!
Bowe had the talent and skill to be a great champion but the dedication and hard work was not there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongSo fighters are "fun" because they lack the skill/dedication to actually be good at what they do? I mean I guess that speaks to why people loved a guy like Arturo Gatti, but at the same time it shows the double standard good/great fighters are subject to...if you don't allow your opponent in the fight then people will get fed up with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThat is what made Bowe fun. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I don't think Riddick could hold his own these days...too many guys would take advantage of his flaws and take him on the cards or just knock him out (which would have happened had he ever fought a power puncher).
Look at Bowe's career....one of the shortest primes EVER. His reign as champion lasted about as long as Buster Douglas and Hasim Rahman's!
To be honest Lyle people in general wanna see two men have a fight when they step in the ring.
Example -
My girlfriend tried to watch Floyds last fight but after a few rounds got bored.
We stayed in got some vodka and watched Froch V Groves 1 and 2 and she loved it.
I admire a skilled fighter who shuts his opponent out but it is boring to watch.
I'd much rather watch 2 guys have a real fight than some cunt who punches and runs.
You only need to look at ppv figures from 20 years ago to what they are now for the proof that the man in the street wants a real fight and to be entertained ;)
I understand the fucking point of boxing smashup but let's not confuse ENTERTAINMENT with TALENT.
To me, the true boxing fan enjoys SKILL. They see a counter punch not just as the punch, but the footwork, the timing, the movement, the setup. The novice fan just sees the hard punch. Novice fans don't run the sport (thank God). If people want to see mindless wild punching then go watch a toughman competition, go watch the UFC/MMA guys try to box, go watch some amateur bouts.....but never ever confuse talent with entertainment.
There's plenty of room for guys to be entertaining in the sport don't get me wrong, but special fighters, great fighters don't allow their opponents to work their way into a fight. Novice fans won't see the tactical brilliance of Floyd Mayweather Jr. and how he negates what an opponent is attempting to do, novice fans obviously don't care about just the KO either as Wladimir Klitschko breaks down and beats down his opponents but the novice fans see nothing special in how the end comes about for those opponents.
If fight fans truly wanted phone booth fights then the promoters would give them that. In the end boxing has been and will always be The Sweet Science, the main goal is always "Hit and don't get hit"
Master, Riddick Bowe had talent, but his lack of attention to detail shortened his career. If Bowe fought more like Lennox Lewis or Wladimir Klitschko he may have been one of the best ever....but he didn't so he's not.
Yeah?
Well, too bad because Boxing is entertainment sold to the public, so it's about 90% casual fans instead of true fans, and the casual fans want ACTION for their money! (Most of the time anyways; floyd's the only one's managed to make bore-fest after bore-fest actually pay off! It's inexplicable, but these casual fans somehow keep paying.)
True fans might appreciate skill over entertainment, but there's not enough true fans to make the sport economically viable on their support alone... especially considering that most "true" fans don't really support the sport at all because they're the worse culprits when it comes to seeking out free illegal livestreams of PPVs instead of showing the real support of the sport by actually paying for them!
Oh well, it's the promoters took it down that route by making every $#!t-show a PPV....
If you want "action for your money" go watch Butterbean or Kimbo Slice beat up some hobos!Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
Early 1950's
Definitely a fun era to watch, especially with the Light Heavyweight's having
success against the bigger men.
Late 1950's
Loaded with talent. Unfortunately Floyd Patterson 'was protected' from the competition.
'Pathetic Era' Mid-1960's
Cassius Clay, the 'Head Clown' of a division which was a 'Circus Act'. The talent literally sucked.
...so tell us:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
When's the last time you paid for a Boxing PPV, El Kabong?
Do you pay every month for every PPV?
What about the rest of you "true" Boxing fans?
It's the millions of casual fans that pay for the shows and make the sport economically viable, it's not the hardcore Boxing fans at all, ahah hah!!
...Buncha f*<kin' stealers, ahah hah hah!!! http://i47.tinypic.com/2111ilj.jpg
Casual fans love to see heart in the ring. Nothing delivers a guy giving it his all in the ring better than facing adversity. Gatti faced adversity, and delivered exciting fights when he tried his all to win despite the setbacks and adversity.
So, it isn't a brawl fans want to see. Fans want to see drama unfold and guys to give it their all.
For example, the first Bowe/Holyfield fight basically set that trilogy off for the better. They had to do it two more times. Bowe was tested and so was Holyfield. Both at the highest points of their careers.
People also wanted a Lewis/Vitali rematch moreso than they wanted a Lewis/Rahman rematch. Because both men were tested and went in with their all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180...so tell us:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
When's the last time you paid for a Boxing PPV, El Kabong?
Do you pay every month for every PPV?
What about the rest of you "true" Boxing fans?
It's the millions of casual fans that pay for the shows and make the sport economically viable, it's not the hardcore Boxing fans at all, ahah hah!!
The last ppv I paid full price for would have been a Lennox fight a long time ago ;)
Lyle I'd bet a lot of money 80% of us here are purist hardcore fans who admire the sweet science (I certainly am) however lets look at the ppv figures from now and then in the Heavyweights then ask yourself how many Heavyweights the man in the street could name right now?
Fuck me in England he'd say Anthony Joshua not the reigning champion Wlad and the reason is that nobody watches Wladimir because he doesn't entertain which is what the heavyweights is all about.
Big fighters with KO power... this is why people (casual fans) tune in.
I said earlier that the Heavyweights died the night Lennox and Vitali finished, maybe Joshua can bring it back but he can't do it alone because apart from the hugely dubious Wilder who else will bring the casual fans back?
Fury to some extent but that's because of his mouth not his boxing.
I doubt we will ever see the Heavies as good as the era in the thread title again.
i agree with all of what you said apart from this last lineQuote:
Originally Posted by smashupQuote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180...so tell us:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
When's the last time you paid for a Boxing PPV, El Kabong?
Do you pay every month for every PPV?
What about the rest of you "true" Boxing fans?
It's the millions of casual fans that pay for the shows and make the sport economically viable, it's not the hardcore Boxing fans at all, ahah hah!!
The last ppv I paid full price for would have been a Lennox fight a long time ago ;)
Lyle I'd bet a lot of money 80% of us here are purist hardcore fans who admire the sweet science (I certainly am) however lets look at the ppv figures from now and then in the Heavyweights then ask yourself how many Heavyweights the man in the street could name right now?
Fuck me in England he'd say Anthony Joshua not the reigning champion Wlad and the reason is that nobody watches Wladimir because he doesn't entertain which is what the heavyweights is all about.
Big fighters with KO power... this is why people (casual fans) tune in.
I said earlier that the Heavyweights died the night Lennox and Vitali finished, maybe Joshua can bring it back but he can't do it alone because apart from the hugely dubious Wilder who else will bring the casual fans back?
Fury to some extent but that's because of his mouth not his boxing.
I doubt we will ever see the Heavies as good as the era in the thread title again.
we will have quality HWs again and quality title fights, soon as wlad retires things will start to improve and title fights will start to become exciting again
i believe there is quality, and i believe they are better than wlad, just not in germany
but once the excitement comes back more quality will come through and one day we will have a decent HW division again
Wlad isn't popular? He isn't entertaining? People don't watch his fights? Oh I'm sorry he's fought in packed houses how many times? People can go on about "Oh Wlad's only famous in Germany, Ukraine, etc" but the guy has 0 trouble selling tickets and to his point Floyd Mayweather Jr ONLY fights in Las Vegas, how is that different? Wlad doesn't have to sell PPV's because he's got a solid deal with RTL or whoever...the guy ain't hurting for fans and he's not hurting for money.
You can "But, but, but" all you like but thems the facts jack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
im not sure fought is the right word
p.s. the main difference between mayweather and wlad is mayweather punches his opponent more than he holds him
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Still trolling are ya? Wladimir has 52 knockouts, an 80% KO rate, but "he doesn't punch"....fuck you you dumb fucking ginger peddle that bullshit somewhere else
:) if wlad would have ko'ed provetkin in round 9 say, would that have been a legitimate KO?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Still trolling are ya? Wladimir has 52 knockouts, an 80% KO rate, but "he doesn't punch"....fuck you you dumb fucking ginger peddle that bullshit somewhere else
:vd: a KO is a KO is a KO, if the ref calls it that's what it is, but continue your trolling please. Pretty please continue that trolling, I can't get enough of it. Tell me again how great Frank Bruno was and then go clean a chimney you twatQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44:) if wlad would have ko'ed provetkin in round 9 say, would that have been a legitimate KO?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Still trolling are ya? Wladimir has 52 knockouts, an 80% KO rate, but "he doesn't punch"....fuck you you dumb fucking ginger peddle that bullshit somewhere else
I can tell you how legitimate Bruno wasQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong:vd: a KO is a KO is a KO, if the ref calls it that's what it is, but continue your trolling please. Pretty please continue that trolling, I can't get enough of it. Tell me again how great Frank Bruno was and then go clean a chimney you twatQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44:) if wlad would have ko'ed provetkin in round 9 say, would that have been a legitimate KO?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Still trolling are ya? Wladimir has 52 knockouts, an 80% KO rate, but "he doesn't punch"....fuck you you dumb fucking ginger peddle that bullshit somewhere else
You are being unfair to Wlad. He is the best fighter by far and would beat them out of Germany and in their own backyard if he had to. The only reason it will be more exciting when Wlad retires is because they are all at the same level and I can see the titles changing hands all the time and we will miss Wlad. The quality will go down.
Was he.....Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiyYozeOoKs
The biggest misconception with the hw scene is that people actually believe it will be worse without wladQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Utter bollox, it will be miles better
And wlad would lose outside Germany
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...the_Troll.jpegQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong:vd: a KO is a KO is a KO, if the ref calls it that's what it is, but continue your trolling please. Pretty please continue that trolling, I can't get enough of it. Tell me again how great Frank Bruno was and then go clean a chimney you twatQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44:) if wlad would have ko'ed provetkin in round 9 say, would that have been a legitimate KO?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Still trolling are ya? Wladimir has 52 knockouts, an 80% KO rate, but "he doesn't punch"....fuck you you dumb fucking ginger peddle that bullshit somewhere else
Lyle isn't a troll he actually does love wlad that muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Namelesshttp://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...the_Troll.jpegQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong:vd: a KO is a KO is a KO, if the ref calls it that's what it is, but continue your trolling please. Pretty please continue that trolling, I can't get enough of it. Tell me again how great Frank Bruno was and then go clean a chimney you twatQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44:) if wlad would have ko'ed provetkin in round 9 say, would that have been a legitimate KO?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Still trolling are ya? Wladimir has 52 knockouts, an 80% KO rate, but "he doesn't punch"....fuck you you dumb fucking ginger peddle that bullshit somewhere else
Calling someone a troll is a shit comeback anyway, can you not think of anything better?