Ok did Weill take advantage of his connections to the grey gentleman to smooth Rocky's path in his career before he got to title level
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Ok did Weill take advantage of his connections to the grey gentleman to smooth Rocky's path in his career before he got to title level
well ıf you mean '47 to '48 yes maybe. But guys he fought '48 onwards were legit. Vingo was no joke, he was 6 ft 4 and had all knockouts, undefeated. Rex Layne was an animal. etc...
Fight I always wonder about wsa the Cockell fight. Marciano kept clubbıng away and there was littie to no damage done. How could that be---was he pulling hıs punches?
Never, ever, at any point in his career or after has anybody come forward with any proof that Marciano benefitted from that sort of activity. I don't think it was ever alleged, other than on internet forums.
That said, every fighter has fights that he is going to win. That's part of being 'brought along' and it has nothing to do with shady connections. That's just how boxing works. Not every fighter is in there to win, even if he is not 'trying' to lose.
Perhaps say the first Lowry fight
After all we see strange decisions today and we see plenty of decisions when the promoters next big thing gets the decision over the named opponent . That's not a modern trait is it , so it's very possible that any close fight involving rocky that some extra insurance could of been in place . A white american heavyweight today would be worth a mountain of money and it would of been just as important back then in a period race seemed more important than it does now . How long had it been since a white heavyweight title holder
Who knows with fights back then. Fight fixing has always been around in boxing and will always be around, but back then when the mob was controlling it and forcing guys to throw fights, it really was the wild west.
I don't know if I can agree with that, entirely.
It seems like Rocky's ZERO would have been an irresistible opportunity for the mob to score a monster payday. Maybe you think Rocky was connected/protected? If that was true, wouldn't they have expected him to go along with the plan, for considerable compensation? Just wondering like everyone else.
What do you think?
There were a few set ups in the early part of the career.
* Bob Jefferson
* Johnny Pretzie
* Don Mogard
I just don't know. Who knows what went on behind closed doors, especially 70 years ago.
Hypothetically, if Rocky was property of the mob and a guaranteed cash cow, there'd be that incentive to fix fights and protect Rocky. If they were taking a slice of Rocky's purse and were taking a slice of the ticket sales and proceeds (or taking all of it, who knows), making Rocky take a dive for one big pay day would probably have been small change compared to what they would make off of him in the long run. Also, bookies would often get wind of a fix when big or unusual bets started coming in and close down the betting, so if large quantites of cash were suddenly put on Don Cockell to upset Marciano, there's no guarantee they'd take the bet.
That's all conjecture though, and unless there was evidence that was the case I wouldn't want to speak ill of Rocky's amazing career.
Funny Business
Monday ~ March 21, 1949
Rhode Island Auditorium ~ Rhode Island
Rocky Marciano ~ 12-0-0 {12 KO's} ~ 182 lbs.
vs.
Johnny Pretzie ~ 9-5-0 {7 KO's} ~ 195 lbs.
Johnny Pretzie, a 29 year-old Boston-based Heavyweight was a 'tough and rugged'
guy who could rumble.
The Fight Bill stated that his record was 16-4-0 {13 KO's}.
Rocky, who had not fought in 3-Months, was reportedly having a rough time in
Training-Sessions.
Rocky had opened as a {4-1} Betting-Favorite.
Johnny Pretzie had only been stopped 'once' in his career, and that was in the 10th
Round of a bout that he was winning by a wide-margin, until he got caught
by a 'Lucky Punch'.
Before 'fight chatter' had Johnny as a 'Live Opponent' who could beat Rocky.
Money was 'dumped' on Johnny, and the Odds dropped down to {2-1} for Rocky.
Suddenly out of nowhere, 2-Days before the Bout, the Odds went from {2-1} for
Rocky Marciano to {7-1}.
The 'street-chatter' was, that Johnny was planning a middle-round dive.
Monday ~ October 10, 1949
Rhode Island Auditorium ~ Providence, Rhode Island
Rocky Marciano ~ 20-0-0 {19 KO's} ~ 180 lbs.
vs.
Ted Lowry ~ 62-49-9 {42 KO's} ~ 178 lbs.
'The First Bout'
Ted had the bout won thru 4-Rounds. Then he changed tactics, and fought
passively from Rounds 5 thru 8, and let Rocky take the play away.
Those at the Rhode Island Auditorium thought that 'Tiger Ted' intentionally
went into a stall, and started booing in Rounds 6 and 7.
Ted did rally some in Rounds 9 and 10, and most of the {3696} in attendance
felt that Ted Lowry had won the bout.
paxtom has some amazing facts. where did u find all that Bill?
'Tiger' Ted Lowry
Age........ 29 years, 11 months
Height.... 5' 9 1/2"
Reach..... 72"
Weight.... 177 3/4 lbs.
Record.... 62-49-9 {42 KO's}
Manager.. Red Watson
'Tiger Ted' was the New England Light-Heavyweight Champion.
Ted was a muscular-built Black Man, and was a slugger who carried
a heavy right-hand, especially with the upper-cut.
But Ted was the recipient of many 'Bad Decisions', and was coming into
the bout by going only 3-15-2 in his previous 20-Bouts dating back to
July 1948 {15-Months}.
On a downer, Ted had lost '7-Straight' coming into this bout.
Manager - Red Watson >
"We have nothing to lose. Ted will slug this kid all over the Ring. He comes in
low, and that will be the perfect recipe for Ted's right-uppercuts."
All them facts Brock it must be The Boys Book Of Boxing.;D
Of course
No boxer's fights are all on the level.
Match-making for example: feeding your new bright-light pro a bunch of dudes who each have 17 losses each or more.
It's ain't fight-fixing, but it certainly isn't on the level.
The opponent with all the losses knows what he's there for, what he's getting paid for.
Marciano arguably fought in the weakest era in heavyweight history not including the grappling era although Dempsey is right on the fringe of grappling and he ducked every black man of his era. The only prime heavyweight Marciano ever fought was Lastarza and he barely beat him the first time. He struggled with a Walcott who was about ten years out of his prime, almost got beat by a shop worn Charles and beat up grandfather Louis.
Rocky was a slugger and not a very good boxer his goal was to land one or two punches and that was it.
haha that "10 years out of his prime" Walcott beat the shit out of Marciano for the first 2 rounds---didnt look too shabby to me. Why couldnt he finish him then? Shot his load after 6 minutes? At 38 years old? But Foreman fought til he was 49? Rubbish.
I don't know about Walcott. He was a better fighter later than he was in his prime, I think, and, for a guy that lost a bunch of fights, he was a pretty good fighter. Slick, tricky, and he could hit real well, too. It doesn't suprise me that he gave Marciano hell in the first fight. The educatinal difference would explain that. Walcott was a clever fighter with a lot of experince; Marciano started late and was winning on power and conditioning and heart.
Goldman was making him into a pretty good fighter but, by then, Marciano was no kid himself. I don' think that people take into account two things about Marciano. First, that he started late and advanced very quickly. His boxing smarts were not his own; they came from Charley Goldman and Marciano had to think as he implemented them. Second, he fought some brilliant guys. The boxing IQs of Charles (the best of all time, in my eyes), Walcott, and Moore were off the charts. Joe Louis was nobody's fool and he had Blackburn, like Marciano had Goldman.
ANY young guy with the limited experience/boxing background of Marciano fighting those guys is going to school. That he beat them is a testament to incredible will and conditioning, and some smarts of his own because he learned what Goldman taught pretty quick and was at least halfway slick himself by the time he retired.
how about a 50 year old with no wear and tear? :) no smoking or drinking, eating only heavy vegetables and olive oil and fruits and drinking 3 liters of water a day? Could he have any chance? I just need to lose 40 pounds and learn how to step, I don't understand how to step. I dont understand how to step with my feet. If I could learn that, I can knock anyone out in my weight class.
I think Rocky Marciano was pretty good.
All he did ....................... was win.
I made a mistake, I should have said LAME. Don't even include Charles in the same sentence of the other 3 and a half men. Even at a severely diminished capacity he could have walked through that sorry ass crowd with ease. I mean he almost knocked Marciano out in that condition. Charles was not only worn out by the time Marciano faced him but mentally broken from the Baroudi fight. And if Marciano could not beat that other group then he had no business even calling himself a contender.
If Chuvalo had his era he to would have been undefeated. Same fighter.
Nice try though. Well, not really.
Oh and you forgot Eddie Ross.
Rocky Marciano vs. Johnny Pretzie
Those close to Johnny, said he took a 'dive'.
Johnny gave Rocky fits for each of the first 3-Rounds.
Suddenly in the 4th, after handling Rocky pretty well, Johnny fell down.
In Round 5, he 'fell' 3-Times before the bout was stopped.
"Oh Johnny Boy" ......... :rolleyes:
Rocky only ever beat old people, but you can only fight whats out there!
He had it lucky with who was around at the time, but you cant take his record away from him.
To put a spoon fed Calzaghe in the same sentence is an insult.