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... but, Carl Froch is the draw and Chavez Jr. is where the money is.
While Ward is Ring Champion, he is no where near the top billed guy in the division.
In fact, people are starting to recognize Froch as the main man in the division now, again.
Ward may have to fight his way back to the top of the mountain that he was on. All over again.
His contractual problems are probably the same as before Gossen passed, although I have no idea.
Fighting his way back to the top spot, he never left, is not the problem. Ward's problem is deciding to fight!!
His bellendness problems are the same now as they were before goosen died
no hes not.....hes a very !!!!NAUGHTY BOY!!!
Job Biscuit (stick)!!!
eh eh!!!
Who would possibly recognize Froch as the #1 in the division outside of Froch and possibly his family?
Froch and Jr are bigger draws for sure, but at the end of the day every serious boxer should have the itching desire to be the #1 guy, and that desire should supersede everything else. It should drive guys nuts that there are guys ranked higher than them.
So for these big draws who won't fight Ward - especially Froch, who should have the added incentive of avenging a loss - they've resigned themselves to the fact that they can't touch Ward and getting whipped by him would only detract from the status they currently hold. I think that's pretty sad.
People want to talk about Froch in the same light as Calzaghe, Hatton, ect. Calzaghe and Hatton were the undisputed #1 guys in their weight division for a certain period: Froch was never the #1 guy at 168.
In 2 weeks he will be. Over a year inactive causes you to lose ur number 1 spot in my booksQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That's why I said Ward has to start all over again. Dirrell brothers, Froch, DeGale, Groves, Chavez Jr and soon to be GGG.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeIn 2 weeks he will be. Over a year inactive causes you to lose ur number 1 spot in my booksQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
He has to start all over again.
Ward can start all over again and beat everyone. He was ahead of everyone and now he has slowed down to allow the others to catch up.
2 fights in 3 years; not good.
Idleness is to the mind what rust is to iron, or such. But no matter his time out you cannot erase a conclusive win over Froch. That said Froch has been more impressive since.
Ward is letting it pass him by, he's Floyding it a bit.
Agreed; his skill level is not impacted by his inactivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
But from a ranking standpoint- a fighter shouldn't rely on their last fight as a reason to be called the 'man' of their division.
He's not even a household name, only true fight fans know who he is & remaining stagnant isn't going to change that.
While it is true, but what has he done lately? You are right with saying he is Floyding it a bit. You don't become recognized by beating everyone who everyone else thinks you can beat. You become the best by fighting the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Its not wards faultQuote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaWhile it is true, but what has he done lately? You are right with saying he is Floyding it a bit. You don't become recognized by beating everyone who everyone else thinks you can beat. You become the best by fighting the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
He has had management problems.
I love froch but ward is still the man to beat...its just when will he fight.?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
You know this false premise and magicians trick that continues to be used has collapsed because it never had any foundation to begin with. The math has simply never supported his claims. I can just see it now. "Hi, my name is Andre Ward, I beat Michael Kessler and Carl Froch in the Super 6 tournament in 2011, can I take your order"
The length of the contract was what this court case was all about and this not getting him fights garbage added to the charade. He's the guy that signed right after the games getting a 6 figure bonus for doing so.Then after he uses Goossen to get him into a tourney that he really had not done much to qualify, home field in every fight and seven figure pay days he decides to pull the pin. Its interesting because it came at a time when the division had nobody left for him to fight.
Look here are the facts:
His first fight in that tourney was at the end of 09 and he got Kessler at home.
His second was against Allan freakin Green mid way through 2010 and he got that at home also.
Next was Bika at the end of 2010 and again at home.
Then came Abraham in the middle of 2011 who had about as much business being there as Green did. You guessed it, at home again.
Next was Froch at the end of 2011 and to his credit he actually traveled in his own country. So that brings us to the end of the tourney and the start 0f 2012.
===
He takes a break at the beginning of 2012. His choice.
During that break Chad Dawson says the dumbest thing he has ever said in his life and says he will back down to 168 after 8 years at 175. I call that the Oscar Delusion now. Ward of course jumps at it. Refuses the idea of a catch and Dawsons title. Why? He had to know even before then that 168 was dryer then the Sahara. So this now brings us to the end of 2012.
Oddly enough its just around this time when the boxing world was getting the picture concerning Adonis and Kovalev and its also about the time when Wards complaints started and it was still obvious that there was nothing left at 168. Based on the evidence provided he really had no complaint thus far and if he did I'd like someone to explain how???????
So we are in 2013 now and Wards on a break complaining. He fights Rodriguez and then says he will fight Floyd at 160 while complaining Dan cant get him fights. This is how he ends 2013. Then GGG starts to pop up everywhere and then it is him that is supposed to go to 168. Why is that? Ward had accomplished nothing since the end of 2011.
He never had a case and realized he'd have to move up and quite possibly fight away from California so chose instead suck his way out of it.
That is what I think and the evidence supports me with a pretty good footprint. The guy has done diddly in 3 years but spend what he earned on a law suit that even his own lawyers had to know was beyond ridiculous. And exhibit A is as simple as the damn calender. So if everyone knew he had no case and proceedings went against him twice already, what possible reason would there be? Did they really believe that after the escape of Floyd and Oscar from the grips of Arum that those loop holes would not have been closed?
I conclude that he'd had enough after the S6 and he never had any intention of leaving a legacy but that he wanted to get in and get out.
With the last sentence, I hope you are not right with this. Truly. Because that would be unfortunate for fight fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
You know this false premise and magicians trick that continues to be used has collapsed because it never had any foundation to begin with. The math has simply never supported his claims. I can just see it now. "Hi, my name is Andre Ward, I beat Michael Kessler and Carl Froch in the Super 6 tournament in 2011, can I take your order"
The length of the contract was what this court case was all about and this not getting him fights garbage added to the charade. He's the guy that signed right after the games getting a 6 figure bonus for doing so.Then after he uses Goossen to get him into a tourney that he really had not done much to qualify, home field in every fight and seven figure pay days he decides to pull the pin. Its interesting because it came at a time when the division had nobody left for him to fight.
Look here are the facts:
His first fight in that tourney was at the end of 09 and he got Kessler at home.
His second was against Allan freakin Green mid way through 2010 and he got that at home also.
Next was Bika at the end of 2010 and again at home.
Then came Abraham in the middle of 2011 who had about as much business being there as Green did. You guessed it, at home again.
Next was Froch at the end of 2011 and to his credit he actually traveled in his own country. So that brings us to the end of the tourney and the start 0f 2012.
===
He takes a break at the beginning of 2012. His choice.
During that break Chad Dawson says the dumbest thing he has ever said in his life and says he will back down to 168 after 8 years at 175. I call that the Oscar Delusion now. Ward of course jumps at it. Refuses the idea of a catch and Dawsons title. Why? He had to know even before then that 168 was dryer then the Sahara. So this now brings us to the end of 2012.
Oddly enough its just around this time when the boxing world was getting the picture concerning Adonis and Kovalev and its also about the time when Wards complaints started and it was still obvious that there was nothing left at 168. Based on the evidence provided he really had no complaint thus far and if he did I'd like someone to explain how???????
So we are in 2013 now and Wards on a break complaining. He fights Rodriguez and then says he will fight Floyd at 160 while complaining Dan cant get him fights. This is how he ends 2013. Then GGG starts to pop up everywhere and then it is him that is supposed to go to 168. Why is that? Ward had accomplished nothing since the end of 2011.
He never had a case and realized he'd have to move up and quite possibly fight away from California so chose instead suck his way out of it.
That is what I think and the evidence supports me with a pretty good footprint. The guy has done diddly in 3 years but spend what he earned on a law suit that even his own lawyers had to know was beyond ridiculous. And exhibit A is as simple as the damn calender. So if everyone knew he had no case and proceedings went against him twice already, what possible reason would there be? Did they really believe that after the escape of Floyd and Oscar from the grips of Arum that those loop holes would not have been closed?
I conclude that he'd had enough after the S6 and he never had any intention of leaving a legacy but that he wanted to get in and get out.
Nobody is buying Froch as the #1 168lber in the world. It's wishful thinking by Froch fans, but there really is no way to justify it intellectually. He's not getting that #1 spot without fight Ward again.
I am Froch's biggest critic by a mile, but Ward is virtually retired and not counting him , Froch is no.1 in what is clearly a crap division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Ward is number 1 and you have to beat him. Just as GGG has to beat Cotto to get the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI am Froch's biggest critic by a mile, but Ward is virtually retired and not counting him , Froch is no.1 in what is clearly a crap division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Not according to a lot of sources out there, including fightnews.com, which has GGG as the #1 guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWard is number 1 and you have to beat him. Just as GGG has to beat Cotto to get the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI am Froch's biggest critic by a mile, but Ward is virtually retired and not counting him , Froch is no.1 in what is clearly a crap division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Cotto is the lineal guy. So too is Ward. But it doesn't mean they are or should be the #1 guy.
How long can ward stay out of the ring or fight no one in particular and stay number 1?Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaNot according to a lot of sources out there, including fightnews.com, which has GGG as the #1 guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWard is number 1 and you have to beat him. Just as GGG has to beat Cotto to get the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI am Froch's biggest critic by a mile, but Ward is virtually retired and not counting him , Froch is no.1 in what is clearly a crap division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Cotto is the lineal guy. So too is Ward. But it doesn't mean they are or should be the #1 guy.
While I am a huge Ward fan and predicted he was the darkhorse at the forums I frequented...this post is really hard to dispute. And I don't say that with a happy heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaWith the last sentence, I hope you are not right with this. Truly. Because that would be unfortunate for fight fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
You know this false premise and magicians trick that continues to be used has collapsed because it never had any foundation to begin with. The math has simply never supported his claims. I can just see it now. "Hi, my name is Andre Ward, I beat Michael Kessler and Carl Froch in the Super 6 tournament in 2011, can I take your order"
The length of the contract was what this court case was all about and this not getting him fights garbage added to the charade. He's the guy that signed right after the games getting a 6 figure bonus for doing so.Then after he uses Goossen to get him into a tourney that he really had not done much to qualify, home field in every fight and seven figure pay days he decides to pull the pin. Its interesting because it came at a time when the division had nobody left for him to fight.
Look here are the facts:
His first fight in that tourney was at the end of 09 and he got Kessler at home.
His second was against Allan freakin Green mid way through 2010 and he got that at home also.
Next was Bika at the end of 2010 and again at home.
Then came Abraham in the middle of 2011 who had about as much business being there as Green did. You guessed it, at home again.
Next was Froch at the end of 2011 and to his credit he actually traveled in his own country. So that brings us to the end of the tourney and the start 0f 2012.
===
He takes a break at the beginning of 2012. His choice.
During that break Chad Dawson says the dumbest thing he has ever said in his life and says he will back down to 168 after 8 years at 175. I call that the Oscar Delusion now. Ward of course jumps at it. Refuses the idea of a catch and Dawsons title. Why? He had to know even before then that 168 was dryer then the Sahara. So this now brings us to the end of 2012.
Oddly enough its just around this time when the boxing world was getting the picture concerning Adonis and Kovalev and its also about the time when Wards complaints started and it was still obvious that there was nothing left at 168. Based on the evidence provided he really had no complaint thus far and if he did I'd like someone to explain how???????
So we are in 2013 now and Wards on a break complaining. He fights Rodriguez and then says he will fight Floyd at 160 while complaining Dan cant get him fights. This is how he ends 2013. Then GGG starts to pop up everywhere and then it is him that is supposed to go to 168. Why is that? Ward had accomplished nothing since the end of 2011.
He never had a case and realized he'd have to move up and quite possibly fight away from California so chose instead suck his way out of it.
That is what I think and the evidence supports me with a pretty good footprint. The guy has done diddly in 3 years but spend what he earned on a law suit that even his own lawyers had to know was beyond ridiculous. And exhibit A is as simple as the damn calender. So if everyone knew he had no case and proceedings went against him twice already, what possible reason would there be? Did they really believe that after the escape of Floyd and Oscar from the grips of Arum that those loop holes would not have been closed?
I conclude that he'd had enough after the S6 and he never had any intention of leaving a legacy but that he wanted to get in and get out.
Yea... I just hope it isn't so.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeWhile I am a huge Ward fan and predicted he was the darkhorse at the forums I frequented...this post is really hard to dispute. And I don't say that with a happy heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaWith the last sentence, I hope you are not right with this. Truly. Because that would be unfortunate for fight fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
You know this false premise and magicians trick that continues to be used has collapsed because it never had any foundation to begin with. The math has simply never supported his claims. I can just see it now. "Hi, my name is Andre Ward, I beat Michael Kessler and Carl Froch in the Super 6 tournament in 2011, can I take your order"
The length of the contract was what this court case was all about and this not getting him fights garbage added to the charade. He's the guy that signed right after the games getting a 6 figure bonus for doing so.Then after he uses Goossen to get him into a tourney that he really had not done much to qualify, home field in every fight and seven figure pay days he decides to pull the pin. Its interesting because it came at a time when the division had nobody left for him to fight.
Look here are the facts:
His first fight in that tourney was at the end of 09 and he got Kessler at home.
His second was against Allan freakin Green mid way through 2010 and he got that at home also.
Next was Bika at the end of 2010 and again at home.
Then came Abraham in the middle of 2011 who had about as much business being there as Green did. You guessed it, at home again.
Next was Froch at the end of 2011 and to his credit he actually traveled in his own country. So that brings us to the end of the tourney and the start 0f 2012.
===
He takes a break at the beginning of 2012. His choice.
During that break Chad Dawson says the dumbest thing he has ever said in his life and says he will back down to 168 after 8 years at 175. I call that the Oscar Delusion now. Ward of course jumps at it. Refuses the idea of a catch and Dawsons title. Why? He had to know even before then that 168 was dryer then the Sahara. So this now brings us to the end of 2012.
Oddly enough its just around this time when the boxing world was getting the picture concerning Adonis and Kovalev and its also about the time when Wards complaints started and it was still obvious that there was nothing left at 168. Based on the evidence provided he really had no complaint thus far and if he did I'd like someone to explain how???????
So we are in 2013 now and Wards on a break complaining. He fights Rodriguez and then says he will fight Floyd at 160 while complaining Dan cant get him fights. This is how he ends 2013. Then GGG starts to pop up everywhere and then it is him that is supposed to go to 168. Why is that? Ward had accomplished nothing since the end of 2011.
He never had a case and realized he'd have to move up and quite possibly fight away from California so chose instead suck his way out of it.
That is what I think and the evidence supports me with a pretty good footprint. The guy has done diddly in 3 years but spend what he earned on a law suit that even his own lawyers had to know was beyond ridiculous. And exhibit A is as simple as the damn calender. So if everyone knew he had no case and proceedings went against him twice already, what possible reason would there be? Did they really believe that after the escape of Floyd and Oscar from the grips of Arum that those loop holes would not have been closed?
I conclude that he'd had enough after the S6 and he never had any intention of leaving a legacy but that he wanted to get in and get out.
So you all think your word means nothing, got it.
Wards friend was robbed by Goosen. I don't even like Ward. I think Christianity is moronic and full of obvious glaring holes. A story that intelligent children should say wait, this doesn't add up. But the bible thumper is right.
Let's push the best fighter in the division to the side for having honor. Welcome to boxing fandom.
Ward lost a $10 million dollar law suit to his promoter, that's 10 fights for Ward as he does not
generate, very large purses to pay that off.
He's needs mega fights, he does not sell well on PPV I think he's knackerd, the longer it
goes the older he gets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
As long as Ward is around, Froch is the number two fighter in the world. Froch also been more active and done more than Ward has in his career. He beat Bute when Ward wouldn't travel to Montreal to face Bute. He avenged his loss against Kessler and sold out Wembley Stadium against the next best domestic super middleweight in Groves. Ward fought a weight-drained Dawson and Edwin Rodriguez and has done nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
It's hard to talk about honor. Why doesn't his friend sue Goosen for breach of contract? I'm no expert but it's probably because they think there's a high risk he'd lose the suit and the only leverage they have is Ward's contract with Goosen. If that's the case, there's probably a chance that he wasn't "robbed" -- at least not under the law. By permitting Ward's career to be kept on ice, Ward has lost the ability to earn a living. It seems his friend should do the honorable thing and let Ward resume his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Quite frankly, I always thought Goosen did a great job with Ward. He helped him turn into a decent regional attraction in Oakland. Got him all home games in the Super Six, multiple 7 figure pay days, all with a style that isn't always fan friendly. To the extent his friend and Goosen, who did right by him otherwise, have beef, Ward should have tried to close the gap and settle the differences. He failed at that for what it's worth.
I'm just gonna call bullshit because I do admit that Ward is boring as shit to most but technically he is the best @ super middle weight and there no one who could beat Ward. All the fans say he's boring and its a fact that he's not a big draw ticket wise. So promoters are not willing to pay a lot of money to make a main event like they should cause its too expensive!!! Andre Ward is one of my favorite fighters but the way I see it he's retired until further notice!!!! Oh yea and with Ward trying to Sue its not gonna make it any better.