Muhammad Ali ~ "Best vs. Best, Joe Frazier Would Beat Me"

Muhammad Ali

If we were both at our best, Joe Frazier would beat me.

I think he may have stopped me. Not knock me out, but probably
by a late TKO.

I looked at his earlier fights, and he was unstoppable. He walked
through punches like a Knife through Hot Butter.

I think Joe was at his best in 1967 thru 1969, and may have peaked when
he destroyed Jimmy Ellis in early-1970.

I looked at his bout with George Chuvalo {July 19, 1967}. I saw this little
23 1/2 year-old guy {5' 11" and 204 lbs.} fight with such ferocity. He looked
like a combination of Rocky Marciano/Henry Armstrong/Jack Dempsey.

There was no fear in him, and he threw punches with 'bad intentions'. It was
frightening.

The first time I saw Joe was up in Massachusetts back in November 1964. He
just came back from the Olympics in Japan. He looked like a little man, and I
swear he looked short {5' 9"} and couldn't have weighed much more than 190 lbs.

I told him to drop down to Light-Heavyweight, and that he'd get destroyed in
the Heavyweight Division in the Pro Ranks.

What year did Ali say this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

What year did Ali say this?

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November 1975

Right after the ..... "Thrilla in Manila"

Cassius was 'honest', and stated that Joe was far from his best in Manila.

Cassius >
"I'm sure that Joe would have had his way with me in 1969. I'm not so sure
that I could have kept him off me. He is small, but oh so tough. And back then,
he was much quicker with his punches."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master

What year did Ali say this?

---

November 1975

Right after the ..... "Thrilla in Manila"

Cassius was 'honest', and stated that Joe was far from his best in Manila.

Cassius >
"I'm sure that Joe would have had his way with me in 1969. I'm not so sure
that I could have kept him off me. He is small, but oh so tough. And back then,
he was much quicker with his punches."

---

I can believe that.

'honest'
You're such a douche @Bill Paxtom !!

Cassius Clay

"Joe Frazier did things to Doug Jones, George Chuvalo, Buster Mathis,
Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis that I couldn't do."

"As a matter of fact, the New York State Boxing Commission wouldn't
sanction a bout between Joe and Floyd Patterson in 1969, in fear that
Joe would kill Floyd. But, they did approve the bout between Floyd and
me for September 1972."

"What does that tell you."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

'honest'
You're such a douche @Bill Paxtom !!

---

You have your head in the sand.

If Cassius said it, then it is true.

If Ali did not get banned from boxing he would have met and beaten Frazier earlier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

If Ali did not get banned from boxing he would have met and beaten Frazier earlier.

---

"NO"

Yank Durham said that Joe Frazer would have been ready for Cassius in January 1968.

Cassius, instead of preparing to fight Joe, took the easier route and got himself in trouble with the United States Selective Service.

See; April 1967.

I think it would have been a ko for Frazier in round 12 had they fought in 68-69. BECAUSE.....Ali would've been dancing WAY MORE than his flat footed 1971 style and therefore would've tired out faster and Joe would've caught him in 12. As Ali would've gassed out running from Joe's wicked unstoppable onslaught. It wouldn't have occurred to Ali in 68 to stand flatfooted and punch with Frazier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master

If Ali did not get banned from boxing he would have met and beaten Frazier earlier.

---

"NO"

Yank Durham said that Joe Frazer would have been ready for Cassius in January 1968.

Cassius, instead of preparing to fight Joe, took the easier route and got himself in trouble with the United States Selective Service.

See; April 1967.

---

Yes because he was afraid to fight Joe. You should write a new book with this conspiracy.

There is a book out there already.

"Chicken Clay" ~ "How To Run Away Louisville Style"

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Brockton,

1967 would be a 'toss-up'.

But any fan with 'boxing logic' would agree, that Smokin' Joe easily defeats
Cassius Clay anytime at all {January 1968 thru December 1971}.

That is a '4-Year' run of complete dominance.

I would still give Joe the edge in 1972, 1973 and 1974 - if it were a
15-Round bout.

By 1975, Joe was a mere shell of himself.

Ali would have beaten Joe earlier had he been allowed to box during his prime.

"Computer Dynamics w/General Kinetics Program"
__________________________________________

November 1967........ Joe Frazier > {W Dec 15} ..... {146-144} 7-6-2 in Rounds

* A feeling out 1st Round. {Even Round}
* Joe goes on the attack, and floors Cassius for a '3-Count' in Round 2.
* Joe keeps the pressure on Cassius in Rounds 3, 4, 5 and 6.
* Both fighters cruise in Round 7. {Even Round}.
* Cassius gets back into the bout, and scores with good rallies in Rounds 8, 9 and 10.
* Joe scores heavily to the body in Round 11, and slows Cassius down.
* Cassius left-jabs his way to winning Round 12.
* Joe stems the flow, and scores with heavy left-hooks to take Round 13 big.
* Cassius pecks away with fast left-jabs and right-crosses in Rounds 14 and 15, but its 'too little and too late'.
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April 1968 ................ Joe Frazier {TKO 14} .........
March 1969 .............. Joe Frazier {TKO 13} .........
January 1970 ........... Joe Frazier {TKO 10} .........
March 1971 ............. Joe Frazier {W Dec 15} .....
January 1972 ........... Joe Frazier {TKO 14} ........
March 1973 .............. Joe Frazier {W Dec 15} ..... 8-6-1 in Rounds
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January 1974 ........... Joe Frazier > {Wins by Disqualification @ 2:09 of Round 12}

* Cassius gets off to a fast start, and wins the first 4-Rounds, including staggering Joe in Round 2.
* Joe starts to dig to the body in Round 5, and wins both Rounds 5 and 6.
* Cassius is warned several times by Referee - Ross Jenkins for 'excessive' holding and grabbing.
* In Round 7 > Joe slams away at Cassius body, as Cassius uses left-jabs and right crosses into Joe's face.
* Cassius is penalized '1-Point' for excessive holding in Round 8.
* Joe comes on strong in Round 9, and rattles Cassius.
* Cassius is warned again for excessive holding.
* Cassius is also penalized '1-Point' for excessive holding and pulling down on Joe's neck.
* Joe continues to dig the body, and hurts Cassius several times in Round 10.
* Again Cassius is warned several times for pulling down on Joe's head.
* Cassius continues to hold and grab Joe by the head.
* Cassius is penalized '1-Point' in Round 10.
* Referee - Ross Jenkins warns Cassius '5' times for holding in Round 11 alone.
* The Referee penalizes Cassius '1-Point' for holding in Round 11.
* Joe comes at Cassius hard in Round 12, and hurts Cassius with left-hooks.
* Cassius grabs Joe by the head and pushes down several times.
* Referee - Ross Jenkins says > "That's enough, I'm disqualifying you Cassius."
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March 1975 .............. Cassius Clay {W Dec 15} ... 9-5-1 in Rounds
October 1975 ............ Cassius Clay {TKO 14}.......
May 1976 ................. Cassius Clay {TKO 13} ......