Touch and Feel

Your thoughts, and perception on it, as regards Boxing, and movement.

As far as I know there are two main things to feel, the opponent and the ground.

You feel the opponent by touching him with your jab hand, catching his punches, etc. This is essential for understanding distance. You feel the ground through your feet, which is essential for proprioception and balance.

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Originally Posted by jms

As far as I know there are two main things to feel, the opponent and the ground.

You feel the opponent by touching him with your jab hand, catching his punches, etc. This is essential for understanding distance. You feel the ground through your feet, which is essential for proprioception and balance.

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Thanks for the reply couple more answers I will reply, this could be good :).

Adding to what jms has already mentioned, feel tells u what your body is doing and when somthing has been done better.

Touch/Feel: Contact reflexes is another, but thats trained into muscle memory a certain way.

Feelings: Heightened awareness, being in the zone, instinct, all comes from freedom of any pre thought or post thought,disengage the mind and allow your reactions to survive for you via what you have already trained for already done the work so you know,take it one step further and you can know him too. Sorry,total left field stuff that last one.:-X

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Originally Posted by Andre

Touch/Feel: Contact reflexes is another, but thats trained into muscle memory a certain way.

Feelings: Heightened awareness, being in the zone, instinct, all comes from freedom of any pre thought or post thought,disengage the mind and allow your reactions to survive for you via what you have already trained for already done the work so you know,take it one step further and you can know him too. Sorry,total left field stuff that last one.:-X

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No its not left field, ;D.

Wrong muscle memory being built in?

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Originally Posted by Andre

Wrong muscle memory being built in?

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there is that, also the damage being done, trying to get fit, body tracking because of the dominant side. Looking at statistics of injuries in sports games its an eye opener.

Seems I'm out of my depth here, gonna sit back and try to absorb the knowledge you two gents are sharing even though right now it's going over my head!

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Originally Posted by jms

Seems I'm out of my depth here, gonna sit back and try to absorb the knowledge you two gents are sharing even though right now it's going over my head!

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:) Dont feel alone, Im just coming up for air, speaking a word or two then straight back down again.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

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Originally Posted by Andre

Wrong muscle memory being built in?

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there is that, also the damage being done, trying to get fit, body tracking because of the dominant side. Looking at statistics of injuries in sports games its an eye opener.

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Its amazing that you have been fixing damage to people of all sorts and now its better still that you are looking to stop the injuries before they occur in the sporting ones.:cool::cool:

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Scrap

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Originally Posted by Andre

Wrong muscle memory being built in?

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there is that, also the damage being done, trying to get fit, body tracking because of the dominant side. Looking at statistics of injuries in sports games its an eye opener.

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Its amazing that you have been fixing damage to people of all sorts and now its better still that you are looking to stop the injuries before they occur in the sporting ones.:cool::cool:

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In all fairness it happened as an accident, but was observed. What was observed was Touch and Feel, quicker touch longer feel, you moving whats under you not the reverse. Then thinking cap on to the ways to implement it.

How did you get: quicker touch / longer feel?

I can see how you would say that in the end results.

But are you talking other?

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Originally Posted by Andre

How did you get: quicker touch / longer feel?

I can see how you would say that in the end results.

But are you talking other?

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Found a few ways to implement it. Made 3 pieces of kit for it. Plus a few routines, what causes damage is stress major problem with running is newtons law breaking down those things, we are trying to improve. Which are the 3 major energy systems, Cardio, Endocrine CNS.

Teaching the body/mind to repair itself through those systems is quite brilliant.
Your results speak for themselves quiet astounding.

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Originally Posted by Andre

Teaching the body/mind to repair itself through those systems is quite brilliant.
Your results speak for themselves quiet astounding.

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Theres a lot going on, one hallowed place cant name, wants to test it for Parkinsons disease,think that will take time.

I don't know if I'm coming at this from the proper direction...
Do you recall the pivot/push thread, page 9 posted by BCUD? The videos show a guy pivoting with his weight heavy on his front leg. To me, that demonstrates a lack of feel, if I'm making sense? There's a lightness to your feet that comes with understanding what balance is about, a confidence that your feet are under you. I think that some people need to learn that, while it comes to other people naturally. Like singing.

I think that there is a touch to throwing punches, beyond the mechanics of each blow. This comes, I think, from the fluidity of evading punches, the feel I tried to convey above, and the timing. I think that this comes from your contact with the ground and the confidence in knowing where you are going to be when you next plant your weight. Again, you can teach it, but you cannot teach it the same way to every person, because every person addresses their balance differently. You can see that. Some people are emminently graceful, others very awkward, but when they walk into the gym, you have to either teach them to address their gracefulness in a direction, or to move about at all.

The understanding comes from the floor. When you teach boxing, you have to understand that and build from there. I don't know anything about any other activity. But, when an absolute novice (and a grown man) comes into the gym and wants to learn to box I start with teaching him to punch, standing in one place without moving his feet, learning to feel his balance through his feet and how he can affect where he is- his weight is- by shifting them. And how much force he can direct in that fashion.

I'll let that go. I could go on for hours.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

I don't know if I'm coming at this from the proper direction...
Do you recall the pivot/push thread, page 9 posted by BCUD? The videos show a guy pivoting with his weight heavy on his front leg. To me, that demonstrates a lack of feel, if I'm making sense? There's a lightness to your feet that comes with understanding what balance is about, a confidence that your feet are under you. I think that some people need to learn that, while it comes to other people naturally. Like singing.

I think that there is a touch to throwing punches, beyond the mechanics of each blow. This comes, I think, from the fluidity of evading punches, the feel I tried to convey above, and the timing. I think that this comes from your contact with the ground and the confidence in knowing where you are going to be when you next plant your weight. Again, you can teach it, but you cannot teach it the same way to every person, because every person addresses their balance differently. You can see that. Some people are emminently graceful, others very awkward, but when they walk into the gym, you have to either teach them to address their gracefulness in a direction, or to move about at all.

The understanding comes from the floor. When you teach boxing, you have to understand that and build from there. I don't know anything about any other activity. But, when an absolute novice (and a grown man) comes into the gym and wants to learn to box I start with teaching him to punch, standing in one place without moving his feet, learning to feel his balance through his feet and how he can affect where he is- his weight is- by shifting them. And how much force he can direct in that fashion.

I'll let that go. I could go on for hours.

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Brilliant, youve got it carry on. ;D

A lot of people want to know how to bob and weave but they don't ever understand that it is all about feeling. That when you make that move, you are chasing your weight, that what makes that move special is when you punch as you go. And THAT is feeling, that sense of when your weight has gone from here to there, and you crack that punch. Again, if I'm making sense. The same is true with how you co-ordinate the movements of your hands and feet, and I think that is very important, draws a line between good fighters and better fighters. But people ignore it, not understanding how important it is to get that whole body feeling-
And that, in my eyes, is the key to boxing, that whole body feeling. It starts with your feet and your balance- then you move in and out and you set you feet to punch hard and your bob/weave and so on. It is that feeling that makes rolling your shoulder a natural reflex and not some 'see the guru' magic quest you can never do. That same feeling is how you learn to counter-punch...It goes on and on. But that feeling that starts with your feet and that confidence that you can throw three good punches (the third one tells is something I believe very strongly. Any dummy can throw a 1-2) The goal is that feeling when you know it all goes together, the way you shift weight on your feet, why you step here instead of there, the roll of your shoulders, and the punch you throw.
@Andre mentioned earlier about knowing the other guy as well, and that is very true. You know yourself so well that you know what you would do in reaction to your action? You develope ESP and can read his thoughts? You know what he is goin to do because you made him do it? I think the concept is the same, but you sell it in different ways to different people.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

A lot of people want to know how to bob and weave but they don't ever understand that it is all about feeling. That when you make that move, you are chasing your weight, that what makes that move special is when you punch as you go. And THAT is feeling, that sense of when your weight has gone from here to there, and you crack that punch. Again, if I'm making sense. The same is true with how you co-ordinate the movements of your hands and feet, and I think that is very important, draws a line between good fighters and better fighters. But people ignore it, not understanding how important it is to get that whole body feeling-
And that, in my eyes, is the key to boxing, that whole body feeling. It starts with your feet and your balance- then you move in and out and you set you feet to punch hard and your bob/weave and so on. It is that feeling that makes rolling your shoulder a natural reflex and not some 'see the guru' magic quest you can never do. That same feeling is how you learn to counter-punch...It goes on and on. But that feeling that starts with your feet and that confidence that you can throw three good punches (the third one tells is something I believe very strongly. Any dummy can throw a 1-2) The goal is that feeling when you know it all goes together, the way you shift weight on your feet, why you step here instead of there, the roll of your shoulders, and the punch you throw.
@Andre mentioned earlier about knowing the other guy as well, and that is very true. You know yourself so well that you know what you would do in reaction to your action? You develope ESP and can read his thoughts? You know what he is goin to do because you made him do it? I think the concept is the same, but you sell it in different ways to different people.

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This is why I have trouble with the using weights thing, the thing that moves us doesnt, resistance every day of the week for Boxing weights you are on your bio mechanical break, and the body works all or nothing.Different feel.

This is why I started the thread, its the thing everything works off. Understand it, youre there. ;D reception response.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

@Andre mentioned earlier about knowing the other guy as well, and that is very true. You know yourself so well that you know what you would do in reaction to your action? You develope ESP and can read his thoughts? You know what he is goin to do because you made him do it? I think the concept is the same, but you sell it in different ways to different people.

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Yeah mate, I have a couple of thoughts and a couple of feelings too ;D, Its timing time itself to the degree you know 100%. One thought is we can over learn and stifle ourselves to the degree nothing comes natural any more cause we are stuck in it. Same goes for fear thats a stifle to flow too.

Then you can bring what you have learned to your own natural style and it gives you the space to think faster.

In its extreme, I could probably even go as far as to say not consciously thinking at all about the reactions so you got room to outsmart the opposition.

Thats really in the zone, different again. Bit like playing an instrument to a written sheet and knowing it fully and later being able to bring your own personality to the work =stage two. Then you got free play to the same written stuff (some may think thats total freedom) then you have the same thing but just jamming along side others both knowing many rhythms but having them break it or divert and you go with them instantly because you knew it was coming. (you still got to be dam good to do it or just so free it happens,could be via being well taught, or an untaught natural ability.
Ill go as far to say a love for being in it allows deeper feelings for and more trust in your instincts.As soon as the questions start its impossible to flow,so you can use that against them in the ring and out of it as well to your advantage.Thats why dumb pricks mouth off and get emotional prior to action.To steal an expression from a master: Still is the master of unrest and still water runs deep.

Now the question I ask, whats going on.I work with and made friends with some people who are top in there field, sports science. Who give me snippets of information, one that fascinates me is, in soccer plus other team games pre season,there are 38% injuries occur. Who are the conditioners, why is it happening, I can guess. Its them not understanding touch, feel.

Plus where most damage occurs.

So they should avoid cold starts, impact, and weights?

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Plus where most damage occurs.

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Hamstrings? Ligaments? Knees?

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Plus where most damage occurs.

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Hamstrings? Ligaments? Knees?

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Funnily enough, its the top of the spinal column, that gets the most damage.

Whats the answer? Neck muscle exercises to help hold up that 5 kilo weight all day in a better way?

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Originally Posted by Andre

Whats the answer? Neck muscle exercises to help hold up that 5 kilo weight all day in a better way?

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Most of the time its whats in that five kilos, that cause and instigates the problem Eyes.

Fortunately or not they give us a dominant side,which alters the mechanics of the body as a unit. Changing the mechanics usually of our centre of gravity hips where the bottom of the spine fits, then everything goes tits up. Balance of the body which is there to move,whats on the top of the spine, Head is diminished, a lot. Balance is lost to a great extent. With the body working all or nothing, we have a problem.

So would there be benefit to better centering and balance by training up the weaker side,eye included? Or wont the feeling side of the brain allow that type of benefit to its corresponding eye and body balance - coordination?

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Originally Posted by Andre

So would there be benefit to better centering and balance by training up the weaker side,eye included? Or wont the feeling side of the brain allow that type of benefit to its corresponding eye and body balance - coordination?

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Not really Andre, one way is to go eyes shut, helps understand the problem.Solve it not sure, as yet. Playing about with a few things at the moment with great success, but same as anything it has to be tested, got the neurologists scratching their heads, for sure.Working with people who have been in long comas 33 days, plus pmd puts a different slant on things, for sure.

If you cant correct the bad messages the eyes are sending then how do you tackle the problem? Does one eventually develop their preceptive capabilitys in terms of feel so they can neutralize the imbalance?
I suppose thats why some stretching alone has been found to be inefficient in terms of correcting posture deviations and muscle imbalance. So it requires both stretching and improved propreception to effectively manipulate and maintain good posture? Or does the propreception development just speed up the effects of the stretching?

Which would you say is more important scrap stretching or propreceptive work? Or must both be used in conjunction? Could you get there with just pro preception and no stretching?Its hurting my brain this thread lol

Having a think about it it seems like stretching is a losing battle without propreceptive work, am i thinking along the right lines?

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Originally Posted by WayneFlint

Having a think about it it seems like stretching is a losing battle without propreceptive work, am i thinking along the right lines?

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You are to a degree, its a bit of where and why. ;D.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

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Originally Posted by WayneFlint

Having a think about it it seems like stretching is a losing battle without propreceptive work, am i thinking along the right lines?

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You are to a degree, its a bit of where and why. ;D.

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Both are feel as such.

Of course, stretching activates the muscle spindles and Golgitendonorgan and also prompts the stretch reflex. Is that what you mean by stretching is feel as it prompts messages similair to when you feel? Or do you mean in a totally different sense entirely?

The Where and why is still too difficult for me to comprehend barring the odd textbook basic postural deviances in which im still in way over my head, i was afraid it wasnt that simple. Still im starting to understand more about whats going on with the work your doing and why, fascinating following the pathway and the principles that has lead you to were you are today, truely great work.

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Originally Posted by WayneFlint

Of course, stretching activates the muscle spindles and Golgitendonorgan and also prompts the stretch reflex. Is that what you mean by stretching is feel as it prompts messages similair to when you feel? Or do you mean in a totally different sense entirely?

The Where and why is still too difficult for me to comprehend barring the odd textbook basic postural deviances in which im still in way over my head, i was afraid it wasnt that simple. Still im starting to understand more about whats going on with the work your doing and why, fascinating following the pathway and the principles that has lead you to were you are today, truely great work.

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All it means is proprioception is the where, balance is the why.

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Originally Posted by scrap

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Originally Posted by andre

so would there be benefit to better centering and balance by training up the weaker side,eye included? Or wont the feeling side of the brain allow that type of benefit to its corresponding eye and body balance - coordination?

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not really andre, one way is to go eyes shut, helps understand the problem.solve it not sure, as yet. Playing about with a few things at the moment with great success, but same as anything it has to be tested, got the neurologists scratching their heads, for sure.working with people who have been in long comas 33 days, plus pmd puts a different slant on things, for sure.

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pmd ?

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by scrap

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Originally Posted by andre

so would there be benefit to better centering and balance by training up the weaker side,eye included? Or wont the feeling side of the brain allow that type of benefit to its corresponding eye and body balance - coordination?

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not really andre, one way is to go eyes shut, helps understand the problem.solve it not sure, as yet. Playing about with a few things at the moment with great success, but same as anything it has to be tested, got the neurologists scratching their heads, for sure.working with people who have been in long comas 33 days, plus pmd puts a different slant on things, for sure.

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pmd ?

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pelizaeus merzbacher desease.