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....fighters like Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Ali, Foreman, Fraizer?
I mean ok yeah, he has become a bit of a joke as the heavyweight division crumbles around him and the opponents he has fought and beat have been sub par.
BUT
It isn't his fault that the division is lacking and how do you think he would do if he were around in a better time?
I doubt he'd have been as good as he appears now, but I do still think he would have done alright!
He has the skill to beat anyone on that list. Lewis and his brother are the only ones who I think beats him every other day. Frazier would have kept it interesting with the pressure and unpredictable left hook.
He would lose to them all easily
I could see Wlad beat Joe by holding the back of his neck like Ali did to good effect and maybe survive the onslaught from Foreman to take it to the later rounds.
I agree with Frazier. I would still pick Frazier but I could see wlad holding a lot and Frazier doesn't have the greatest defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Did you see Wlad today, he looked vulnerable and spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherI agree with Frazier. I would still pick Frazier but I could see wlad holding a lot and Frazier doesn't have the greatest defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Haha. Yes. I thought the same exact thing. This was the most impressed I've been by him in a long time and yet, I saw glaring weaknesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDid you see Wlad today, he looked vulnerable and spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherI agree with Frazier. I would still pick Frazier but I could see wlad holding a lot and Frazier doesn't have the greatest defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I think Tyson beats him nearly every time, Mike was just too good at getting in on tall guys and eventually Mike would catch him with something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
Lewis, Holyfield and Ali are a toss-up to me. Either way, Wlad is a tough day in the office for all of those guys.
I think he'd do more favourably against Foreman, who had a ton of power but was much slower and less mobile than the guys mentioned above, I think he'd have trouble with Wlad's range and speed.
Joe Frazier is the low man on the totem pole. I don't think he'd have much of a chance vs. Wlad stylistically. I know he made his living getting inside on taller guys, but I just don't think he had the defensive capabilities to avoid Wlad's heavy artillery on the way in, and he didn't have the kind of speed necessary.
I can't see him beating Foreman in his prime. Perhaps if he did a dope arope and tired Foreman out but I don't think he could withstand it like Ali did.
Few could.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
Really, only one could.
True, Ali took some bombs that day, could Wlad?Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkFew could.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
Really, only one could.
Frazier and Holyfield only ones I see having trouble with him.
Joe would have to win by one punch KO but I can see him landing similar to how he did to floor Ali
I think Frank Bruno could also beat Klitschko by early KO
I don't think he would have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Foreman couldn't win the battle of the jabs with him and Foreman would have been kept more honest against Wlad because Wlad could have knocked him out at any time with either hand, unlike Ali.
Foreman has never been knocked out except for Ali and that was more because he was exhausted. George chin has been very durable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI don't think he would have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Foreman couldn't win the battle of the jabs with him and Foreman would have been kept more honest against Wlad because Wlad could have knocked him out at any time with either hand, unlike Ali.
Prime Tyson would have absolutely fucked Wlad up in the first round, Wlads style was tailor made for him and he'd have just slipped inside and it'd be all over pretty quick.
He would lose to all of them.
I don't see him getting past two or three rounds with the likes of Foreman and Tyson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I'm sure Wlad could hold down Joe even better than Ali used to. Difference is when and if ever Joe landed one of those haymaker, leaping left hooks. Ali proved to have an excellent chin. I don't think Wlad would survive even one of those shots, regardless of how small in comparison Joe was. Remember, Joe did a lot of damage with that hook to some very durable fighters.
He had a great chin for sure, but it wasn't infallible. Lyle had him on the deck flopping around like a fish, of course. Ray Mercer had maybe the best chin in HW history and Wlad rocked, dropped and finished him fairly easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Has a lot to do with the speed and accuracy that Wlad throws his punches. Wlad is a different kind of athlete than those guys, it's just a different time.
Mercer was old, you know how He took the bombs of Morrison and Lewis in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerHe had a great chin for sure, but it wasn't infallible. Lyle had him on the deck flopping around like a fish, of course. Ray Mercer had maybe the best chin in HW history and Wlad rocked, dropped and finished him fairly easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Has a lot to do with the speed and accuracy that Wlad throws his punches. Wlad is a different kind of athlete than those guys, it's just a different time.
It's hard to say how Wlad would do as he tailors his fight plan for each opponent. He'll be different weights for fighters that have different styles.
You have some logic there. Foreman often said during his second coming that he attributed his success to his jab. He said he really didn't spend much time developing his jab in his young days and it was his biggest regret. Still, all in all I don't see Wlad beating a prime George.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI don't think he would have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Foreman couldn't win the battle of the jabs with him and Foreman would have been kept more honest against Wlad because Wlad could have knocked him out at any time with either hand, unlike Ali.
I think Foreman was just too wild, and never really had to fight a good boxer/puncher in his early career. Frazier was an inside guy, Norton had a great jab but wasn't great defensively. Ron Lyle was solid but would never be confused with a ring general. And of course Foreman got KO'd by Ali.
It's a big difference in athleticism and sport science as well, Foreman was fighting guys 5'9''-6'3'', 199-220lbs. None of those guys could really compare to a 6'6'', 245lb super athlete with world class boxing skills like Wlad. It's apples and oranges.
If you really look at it, Wlad has fought fighters more comparable to Foreman than Foreman has fought comparable to Wlad.
Watching the fight against pulev, it showed me how foreman would have destroyed wlad. Pulev was the first guy in forever that wasn't scared of wlad. He just was outclassed. Wlad took some good shots from pulev. Those same shots from foreman would have changed the fight. Plus, I'm sure that foreman had a better chin than pulev. I think the fight would look similar but once foreman landed, it would be lights out for wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Beanflicker and powerpuncher brought up excellent counter arguments that are both rational. I guess that's what makes these discussions interesting.
You could be right, Pulev did some good work with his jab. I think Wlad would take it but Wlad's chin was never the best and Foreman could crack.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Wlad was shook by Pulev so he is still very vulnerable but he can adapt. Wlad used his legs and moved around setting up the left hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou could be right, Pulev did some good work with his jab. I think Wlad would take it but Wlad's chin was never the best and Foreman could crack.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Off the top I think Holyfield would have a helluva chance to score the tko. Side to side and jarring combination punching as long as he doesn't stand on the end of the jab and rips off inside hooks when Wlad falls in to hug and maul it out first. Think he'd have Wlads feet, balance crossed over often and take advantage.
Holyfield could fight stupid like against Bowe because he could not get past that jab. Wlad had a great one. If Evander got inside Wlad would hold. Another weakness was Holy field was not a big puncher. The only thing I would say he could do to beat Wlad would be by making it a battle of heart, conditioning and attrition to break Wlad as Brewster did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Holyfield was actually out jabbing Bowe very early on and started slugging when Bowe opened up inside and hitting on the break. Bowe wasn't a lot of things, but he was a very crisp and capable inside fighter a level above Wlad in the wheel house I believe. Was also the lightest Holyfield ever came in as heavy, and that was just dumb. His combos and resulting power were underrated, Mercer, Tyson, Foreman all iron chins and all seriously hurt and left reeling well enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHolyfield could fight stupid like against Bowe because he could not get past that jab. Wlad had a great one. If Evander got inside Wlad would hold. Another weakness was Holy field was not a big puncher. The only thing I would say he could do to beat Wlad would be by making it a battle of heart, conditioning and attrition to break Wlad as Brewster did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I'm not a big fan of Wlad's, but I have to (grudgingly) give him credit for how effective he has become. I don't think he is as sturdy as Foreman, Tyson, Lewis (although Lewis did suffer two horrific knockouts), Bowe, Evander...etc., but I think his size and athleticism puts him in with any of those guys. Due to the style match up I think Tyson, Lewis and perhaps Bowe on their best nights give him the most problems. Evander hated fighting tall guys who moved and leaned/clutched him, so I don't know how effective he would have been vs. Wlad. I can see Wlad just boxing of the back foot and jabbing Evander and winning the decision. Evander was able to effectively outjab both Bowe and Lewis (2nd fight) during certain periods, so he definitely is a live underdog in my opinion. I think that George is just too slow for Wlad, who would be more mobile and never stand still long enough to let George land the big shot. Frazier is the most interesting match up to me. He had stamina to throw hard and bob n weave all night, and the punch to stop Wlad if he landed a solid hook. Wlad is much taller and very effective at leaning on the other guy and fighting tall, that I don't know if Joe would be able to overcome that. All would be great match ups though.