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... you DO know he was shot by the time he got out of prison the first time, right?
The Tyson that lost to Douglas was an under-trained fighter. He deserved to lose. The fighter that came out of prison was a shot fighter.
Even on half-staff Tyson was still better than many of the top ten bums. lolol....
You just can't compare the Tyson that killed Berbick, Holmes, and out lasted Bonecrusher Smith, with the guy that walked around the ring post-prison.
no doubt and 3 years in the slammer gettin it up the Wazoo would ruin ANY fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
It's like Riddick Bowe after he right before he faced Golota the first time and after that.... just not the same man. Not at all.
Golota took whatever Bowe had out of him... some people blame the Holyfield fights, but remember he came back to crush Holyfield in the 5th round of their rubber match and went on the beat Hide and destroy Gonzalez.
Bowe lost his spark right after he beat Gonzalez and before he got in the ring with Golota. Golota just sent him packing...
... consequently speaking, Moorer was gone after Foreman beat him too. lolol...
Tyson lifestyle caught up with him, he had promotional strggles, STD before the Douglas fight, marriage issues and lost his trainer.
Bowe was finished by the fridge and lack of dedication. Holyfield triology did not help.
Moorer had a weak chin.
Yes, and also an admitted drug habit. Said he went into the ring on coke a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I did not realise he took drugs during his peak, know he got done against Golota.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusYes, and also an admitted drug habit. Said he went into the ring on coke a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Wouldnt surprise me from a man that bites another mans ear off in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusYes, and also an admitted drug habit. Said he went into the ring on coke a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I mean, jeeez.
Tyson is great but how was he allowed to continue his career after that??!!!
Pay $3million and banned for a time. That is how. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by impWouldnt surprise me from a man that bites another mans ear off in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusYes, and also an admitted drug habit. Said he went into the ring on coke a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I mean, jeeez.
Tyson is great but how was he allowed to continue his career after that??!!!
Mike Tyson was a great fighter, no doubt. One of the most fearsome punchers and most intimidating fighters in history. That being said, I don't know how shot he was, and not sure that it really matters. Bowe got fat and never fulfilled his potential, so the bottom line is that regardless of what you feel caused Mike to not have the really big wins over elite opponents, the fact is he never got those wins. Top 15 ATG at Heavy? Sure. Ahead of guys like Holmes, Louis, Lewis, Ali, Evander, Marciano, Foreman...etc.? I don't see it.
You have to be a real asshole to talk shit about Mike (unless you're one of the many people he victimized outside of the ring hahaha).
He was exciting as fuck, he had the power of Foreman with the speed of Ali, and he was programmed to throw bombs and produce brutal KOs. He's the greatest.
Tyson was on coke, weed and liquor from the late 80's.
Regardless of prison and drug use pressure fighters (which is what Tyson was) have a short time at their peak. 27-30 years old is just about the time they start to fall apart. Now Tyson had more power than most pressure fighters but again the way he was successful using that power was by being a pressure fighter, forcing his opponent to make a mistake, and throwing volume at him where a big shot was bound to land after a while.
Tyson never had many late stoppages and fighters eventually learn how to survive and once they learn that they'll try to win the late rounds, and once they do that, they'll try to win the early rounds and throw Mike completely off his game. Tyson's style couldn't adapt easily when guys started forcing him to work harder to get those punches in.
That's a lot easier said than done to survive Mike's punches and throw him off his game. And I think big heavyweight punchers in general don't have many late stoppages. Other than Moorer, it was rare to see a Foreman KO past the 5th round.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Guys survived the early Tyson rounds by being durable and going into a completely defensive shell, and thereby gave the rounds away and lost wide decisions.
And there's the problem with your argument 1. I never said it was "easy" 2. I never said Mike Tyson wasn't an amazing fighter 3. Foreman was never a pressure fighter and he COULD carry his power late.
The point I'm trying to make is that after seeing Tyson for a while, and stopping being intimidated by his speed and power (most difficult thing to do to begin with, the mental preparation) and you got down to just surviving the first few rounds....Mike Jameson goes 5, Jesse Fergusson goes 6, James Tillis goes 10, Mitch Green goes 10, Jose Ribalta goes 10, Bonecrusher Smith goes 12, Tony Tucker goes 12....you can start to see more weaknesses in a fighter's style the more rounds you see of them. ESPECIALLY the pressure fighters.
You see your questions answered, they begin to ease your doubts...
"How many punches can this guy throw per round for 12 rounds?"
"How does his power carry late?"
"Is he still moving in the 12th like he was in the 1st?"
"Does he adapt to different styles?"
You start to see the guy as a MAN and not some machine over 12 rounds....over 12 rounds everyone has vulnerabilities. And guys just learned how to fight Tyson and adapt to him and Tyson eventually had no plan B.
Again, Tyson was a great great fighter, but every style has it's drawbacks and the Cus D'Mato style is no different. People eventually saw enough of it and enough of Tyson to do the math and beat him. Over 12 rounds there's not much you can hide....good or bad
I do not think it was because fighters learned and adapted more so Tyson was not the same force he once was and reaching the same intensity/heights in the ring after Spinks.
That Tyson would have done better against Douglas and Rudduck.
And he was still winning!!. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
The more rounds a guy has the more likely you are to spot a weakness...just law of averages. Plus it's just common sense pressure fighters gas out....UNLESS they like Joe Frazier build up steam as the fight goes on instead of shooting off like a rocket the first few rounds.
What argument, I just offering up friendly conjectureQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
And the award for the most generic thread goes to ......Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
.... and the winner for the most trolling guy that follows you around like a horny school girl is...Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosAnd the award for the most generic thread goes to ......Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Bowe had a screw knocked loose or come loose. His meltdown was quick permanent. IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Bowe vs Tyson at any point in time would have been GREAT!