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I tend to get the tension on my knees/quads rather than at my hips, how to max it out at the hips? (I can get the feeling for it at the hips too but I want to know how to really get the tension strong at the hips)
Think Tyson and Fraizier for this, they exaggerate it to the max.
You push down/ off for this method.
I never did manage to get the full hip rotation thing nailed myself.
I do know that you never want to push off the floor with your legs though, except if the situation necessitates it. Normally you want to drop your weight into the punch instead. Pushing off the floor makes your shots ungrounded.
I have a fairly wide stance, what about you?
I was told that a wide stance affords some benefits but restricts hip extension/rotation somewhat.
I have a S&C background but only very basic training experience so hopefully someone knowledgable on it can answer for both of us?????
Well,Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGWTF
you need to take a derivative and find its zeroes. Then substitute in the second derivative and find points of min and max. Then sort from min to max, finally choose the max.
Oh that makes perfect sense lolQuote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminWell,Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGWTF
you need to take a derivative and find its zeroes. Then substitute in the second derivative and find points of min and max. Then sort from min to max, finally choose the max.
Lots of stretching, and good technique.
How will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
How would it not?!Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
That is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Grey need your help with my hips, I can use my hips and get a heavy powerful feeling punch, and I can use my hips and get a very fast explosive fast punch that doesn't feel as heavy as the first one. Does that mean Im doing both wrong? I presume it does I presume if you have your hip rotation down optimally it will feel explosive fast AND heavy not just one or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
How do I get it down?
(note Ive used your mechanics and I consider them more advanced and ironically they are easier to get down but I want to know how to use the hips just in the bog standard way most modern boxing gyms teach, you know by just pivoting your foot, so that's what I need help with)
You are doing just fine. Every time you punch, you aren't setting down to punch as hard as you can. You are moving, etc...Punching properly means there is always a 'pop' in your punch, but you aren't setting down. Watch orlando canizales. He moves and always punches good. But you can see him, at times, set down and really dig in and turn on his punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGWTFGrey need your help with my hips, I can use my hips and get a heavy powerful feeling punch, and I can use my hips and get a very fast explosive fast punch that doesn't feel as heavy as the first one. Does that mean Im doing both wrong? I presume it does I presume if you have your hip rotation down optimally it will feel explosive fast AND heavy not just one or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
How do I get it down?
(note Ive used your mechanics and I consider them more advanced and ironically they are easier to get down but I want to know how to use the hips just in the bog standard way most modern boxing gyms teach, you know by just pivoting your foot, so that's what I need help with)
Meh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Punching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Sounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I was sent a guy who had a bad accident, car hitting him while cycling. Was in a coma 33 days Ankle Hip knees damage. Last month, at the age of 55 He completed a Half iron man. youll never guess how it was done ;D By doing it for 6 months.
The fuck are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
You can improve not only flexibility, but mobility. That's strength at new ranges of motion. Ask anyone who's ever learned how to throw a head kick when they initially couldn't kick to their own waist. I personally had a lot of trouble with external rotation, especially with my left leg. I've done the right stretching and exercises, now I can do it with no problem so all my punches and especially my right kick are that much better.
Or look at any kind of weight lifter. The average person can't normally go through the full range of motion of a squat, but you can teach anyone to do it within a month.
Flexibility is probably the physical attribute with the most ability to improve.
Couldn't be stretching, could it?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
You have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
Exercise is about muscle contraction, do it without stretching, down the line theres going to be problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsCouldn't be stretching, could it?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Science doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
This is not science, this is scientologyQuote:
Originally Posted by BCBUD
Why is that Scientology? Again beyond the normal range of motion the cns disconnects.theres no scientific adaptation to increase the number fast twitch muscle fibres besides the only way you can activate type 2 muscles is the amount of weight you lift and how manage fatigue during sets. So How does stretching your muscles to the normal range of motion increase those muscle fibres needed for sprinting and throwing fast muscles? Enlighten us!Quote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminThis is not science, this is scientologyQuote:
Originally Posted by BCBUD
Just wow bcbud your too stupid to be taught, you think your smart but all you do is ask questions and dont bother ro educate yourself to understand the answers given.
If your postures screwed then half of your muscles arent even working during your shots, you have overactive muscles that need stretching so they can contract fully, if the antagonist muscles to the trigger muscles in a punch arent flexible then they are slowing you down and fucking you up for turning your hips and landing good rights with complete extention thus good bone allignment to help support the direction in which the force is distributed.
Seriously i could go on and on but WTF n BC im afraid you guys are already fucked, and you never understand the answers given neway. When you havnt got it you havnt got it and Overthinking ur shit is just gonna make it worse now. You need propper coaching from a trainer that knows what hes doing and he may be able to teach you.
BC some of your statments are so stupid its untrue, stretching has been proved to have no effect? LMFAO! like i said scrap its like trying to explain mathmatics to a dog with these two pal lol.
OMGwft i dunno wot crap theyve been teaching you in your weekenders MMA gym but we cant talk you into good technique on the internet lol, repetition, repetition, repetition, ultimatley you have to be gifted enough to feel your way there, if you can do that AND you can prevent your musculature system from causing resistance when you punch and make sure all muscles are working how they should then you can punch with good rotation.
You will know when your there because you can throw you most powerful punches and they feel effortless and the shot brings itself back again with seemingly no effort. The less you put into a punch and the more you get from it means the better it is. If you cant feel your way there you probably lack the coordination required to throw properly, even if your posture is perfect your screwed.
A video is needed to see how your punching, then we can help you. Dont bother asking anymore daft questions unless you give us somthing to work with.
Where in that article does it even say anything about flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDScience doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
Besides it doesn't even matter. You can post random internet sources all day. If you walked up to any half-decent strength and conditioning coach or physical therapist and told them flexibility can't be improved you'd be laughed out of the room. It's an opinion that can't even be taken seriously. You have to be trolling.
Woooow! Hey guys I'm not trying to be defensive first off I have great trainers! Which includes a brand new strength training coach. I am not a fighter with 0-8 tomato can record, too add to all that I have a coach that trained Lennox Lewis a National Level coach and when I go on about twisting my limbs to get strong they look at me funny and say that's called stretching not resistance (heavy) training. You'd be wrong to think that I'm stupid since I come from good genes my one of my parents is a physician the other an academic had my grades fallen below the honor roll I wouldn't even be boxing. Again I'm not posting anything my question is the following how does stretching fully to the normal range activate type 2 muscle fibre. Kindly answer that question. Please!Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsWhere in that article does it even say anything about flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDScience doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
Besides it doesn't even matter. You can post random internet sources all day. If you walked up to any half-decent strength and conditioning coach or physical therapist and told them flexibility can't be improved you'd be laughed out of the room. It's an opinion that can't even be taken seriously. You have to be trolling.
The point is to give full range of motion while maintaining strength. Good stretching will develop that. If range of motion is limited, especially in the hip joint or ankles, then it's physically impossible to punch or move well without forcing it and causing injury. You can add resistance to the stretching too. Of course stretching on its own won't cause huge gains in strength, that's what a good lifting program is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDWoooow! Hey guys I'm not trying to be defensive first off I have great trainers! Which includes a brand new strength training coach. I am not a fighter with 0-8 tomato can record, too add to all that I have a coach that trained Lennox Lewis a National Level coach and when I go on about twisting my limbs to get strong they look at me funny and say that's called stretching not resistance (heavy) training. You'd be wrong to think that I'm stupid since I come from good genes my one of my parents is a physician the other an academic had my grades fallen below the honor roll I wouldn't even be boxing. Again I'm not posting anything my question is the following how does stretching fully to the normal range activate type 2 muscle fibre. Kindly answer that question. Please!Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsWhere in that article does it even say anything about flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDScience doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is more or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
Besides it doesn't even matter. You can post random internet sources all day. If you walked up to any half-decent strength and conditioning coach or physical therapist and told them flexibility can't be improved you'd be laughed out of the room. It's an opinion that can't even be taken seriously. You have to be trolling.
The original argument was you saying flexibility can't be improved, which is absolute bullshit. You sound like someone who just read about this topic last week and is claiming to be an expert on it. And not a single person is saying stretching makes you strong, is reading comprehension not required to be an honor roll student where you're from?
Meh! The tendons have very little tension to stretching beyond a 4% stretch after that they can tear or worse yet!!! lengthen beyond their ability to recoil also by the time your an adult your tissues have lost 15% of their moisture content making it less supple and prone to injury. My coach won't risk it by having me do stretches because he says that there isn't one published study that says it prevents injury and to the contrary muscles lose there flexibility when over stretched like a rubber band. He is a national boxing coach. Lastly a good boxer should have flexibility so why the need to improve it? I'd think that one would strong muscles to flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsThe point is to give full range of motion while maintaining strength. Good stretching will develop that. If range of motion is limited, especially in the hip joint or ankles, then it's physically impossible to punch or move well without forcing it and causing injury. You can add resistance to the stretching too. Of course stretching on its own won't cause huge gains in strength, that's what a good lifting program is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDWoooow! Hey guys I'm not trying to be defensive first off I have great trainers! Which includes a brand new strength training coach. I am not a fighter with 0-8 tomato can record, too add to all that I have a coach that trained Lennox Lewis a National Level coach and when I go on about twisting my limbs to get strong they look at me funny and say that's called stretching not resistance (heavy) training. You'd be wrong to think that I'm stupid since I come from good genes my one of my parents is a physician the other an academic had my grades fallen below the honor roll I wouldn't even be boxing. Again I'm not posting anything my question is the following how does stretching fully to the normal range activate type 2 muscle fibre. Kindly answer that question. Please!Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsWhere in that article does it even say anything about flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDScience doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is moere or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
Besides it doesn't even matter. You can post random internet sources all day. If you walked up to any half-decent strength and conditioning coach or physical therapist and told them flexibility can't be improved you'd be laughed out of the room. It's an opinion that can't even be taken seriously. You have to be trolling.
The original argument was you saying flexibility can't be improved, which is absolute bullshit. You sound like someone who just read about this topic last week and is claiming to be an expert on it. And not a single person is saying stretching makes you strong, is reading comprehension not required to be an honor roll student where you're from?
Simply because of your eyesight, and dominant side, alters structure, and tracking.
You aren't stretching tendons, you're stretching muscles. We aren't talking stretching to prevent injury, we're talking stretching to improve range of motion when it's lacking which enables proper technique. It's not just stretching though, it's mobility work in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh! The tendons have very little tension to stretching beyond a 4% stretch after that they can tear or worse yet!!! lengthen beyond their ability to recoil also by the time your an adult your tissues have lost 15% of their moisture content making it less supple and prone to injury. My coach won't risk it by having me do stretches because he says that there isn't one published study that says it prevents injury and to the contrary muscles lose there flexibility when over stretched like a rubber band. He is a national boxing coach. Lastly a good boxer should have flexibility so why the need to improve it? I'd think that one would strong muscles to flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsThe point is to give full range of motion while maintaining strength. Good stretching will develop that. If range of motion is limited, especially in the hip joint or ankles, then it's physically impossible to punch or move well without forcing it and causing injury. You can add resistance to the stretching too. Of course stretching on its own won't cause huge gains in strength, that's what a good lifting program is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDWoooow! Hey guys I'm not trying to be defensive first off I have great trainers! Which includes a brand new strength training coach. I am not a fighter with 0-8 tomato can record, too add to all that I have a coach that trained Lennox Lewis a National Level coach and when I go on about twisting my limbs to get strong they look at me funny and say that's called stretching not resistance (heavy) training. You'd be wrong to think that I'm stupid since I come from good genes my one of my parents is a physician the other an academic had my grades fallen below the honor roll I wouldn't even be boxing. Again I'm not posting anything my question is the following how does stretching fully to the normal range activate type 2 muscle fibre. Kindly answer that question. Please!Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsWhere in that article does it even say anything about flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDScience doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is moere or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
Besides it doesn't even matter. You can post random internet sources all day. If you walked up to any half-decent strength and conditioning coach or physical therapist and told them flexibility can't be improved you'd be laughed out of the room. It's an opinion that can't even be taken seriously. You have to be trolling.
The original argument was you saying flexibility can't be improved, which is absolute bullshit. You sound like someone who just read about this topic last week and is claiming to be an expert on it. And not a single person is saying stretching makes you strong, is reading comprehension not required to be an honor roll student where you're from?
If you already have full range of motion then great, you don't necessarily need to stretch but you still should do work to improve strength and do it along that full range of motion. Plenty of people have flexibility but lack mobility due to either muscle weaknesses/imbalances or a lack of coordination.
For the record it's very rare for someone to show up to a boxing gym with great mobility in the ankles and hips. Legs are often turned in or out, glutes are often weak (especially glute med), there tends to be very little strength or endurance under hip flexion, especially when rotational components are added, etc. I've heard from several coaches over the past few years that something like 90% of people who step in a gym have problems with their body that have to be fixed before they can ever get their technique right.
Tell you what I'll take this thread to the national coach and have him read it. This will give us an inside view to the top coaches and how they think. I'll post the response tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou aren't stretching tendons, you're stretching muscles. We aren't talking stretching to prevent injury, we're talking stretching to improve range of motion when it's lacking which enables proper technique. It's not just stretching though, it's mobility work in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh! The tendons have very little tension to stretching beyond a 4% stretch after that they can tear or worse yet!!! lengthen beyond their ability to recoil also by the time your an adult your tissues have lost 15% of their moisture content making it less supple and prone to injury. My coach won't risk it by having me do stretches because he says that there isn't one published study that says it prevents injury and to the contrary muscles lose there flexibility when over stretched like a rubber band. He is a national boxing coach. Lastly a good boxer should have flexibility so why the need to improve it? I'd think that one would strong muscles to flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsThe point is to give full range of motion while maintaining strength. Good stretching will develop that. If range of motion is limited, especially in the hip joint or ankles, then it's physically impossible to punch or move well without forcing it and causing injury. You can add resistance to the stretching too. Of course stretching on its own won't cause huge gains in strength, that's what a good lifting program is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDWoooow! Hey guys I'm not trying to be defensive first off I have great trainers! Which includes a brand new strength training coach. I am not a fighter with 0-8 tomato can record, too add to all that I have a coach that trained Lennox Lewis a National Level coach and when I go on about twisting my limbs to get strong they look at me funny and say that's called stretching not resistance (heavy) training. You'd be wrong to think that I'm stupid since I come from good genes my one of my parents is a physician the other an academic had my grades fallen below the honor roll I wouldn't even be boxing. Again I'm not posting anything my question is the following how does stretching fully to the normal range activate type 2 muscle fibre. Kindly answer that question. Please!Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsWhere in that article does it even say anything about flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDScience doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is moere or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
Besides it doesn't even matter. You can post random internet sources all day. If you walked up to any half-decent strength and conditioning coach or physical therapist and told them flexibility can't be improved you'd be laughed out of the room. It's an opinion that can't even be taken seriously. You have to be trolling.
The original argument was you saying flexibility can't be improved, which is absolute bullshit. You sound like someone who just read about this topic last week and is claiming to be an expert on it. And not a single person is saying stretching makes you strong, is reading comprehension not required to be an honor roll student where you're from?
If you already have full range of motion then great, you don't necessarily need to stretch but you still should do work to improve strength and do it along that full range of motion. Plenty of people have flexibility but lack mobility due to either muscle weaknesses/imbalances or a lack of coordination.
For the record it's very rare for someone to show up to a boxing gym with great mobility in the ankles and hips. Legs are often turned in or out, glutes are often weak (especially glute med), there tends to be very little strength or endurance under hip flexion, especially when rotational components are added, etc. I've heard from several coaches over the past few years that something like 90% of people who step in a gym have problems with their body that have to be fixed before they can ever get their technique right.
Cool, I'm sure he'll clear some things up. Because honestly at this point I don't even know what you're trying to argue, and I'm not sure you do either.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDTell you what I'll take this thread to the national coach and have him read it. This will give us an inside view to the top coaches and how they think. I'll post the response tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou aren't stretching tendons, you're stretching muscles. We aren't talking stretching to prevent injury, we're talking stretching to improve range of motion when it's lacking which enables proper technique. It's not just stretching though, it's mobility work in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh! The tendons have very little tension to stretching beyond a 4% stretch after that they can tear or worse yet!!! lengthen beyond their ability to recoil also by the time your an adult your tissues have lost 15% of their moisture content making it less supple and prone to injury. My coach won't risk it by having me do stretches because he says that there isn't one published study that says it prevents injury and to the contrary muscles lose there flexibility when over stretched like a rubber band. He is a national boxing coach. Lastly a good boxer should have flexibility so why the need to improve it? I'd think that one would strong muscles to flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsThe point is to give full range of motion while maintaining strength. Good stretching will develop that. If range of motion is limited, especially in the hip joint or ankles, then it's physically impossible to punch or move well without forcing it and causing injury. You can add resistance to the stretching too. Of course stretching on its own won't cause huge gains in strength, that's what a good lifting program is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDWoooow! Hey guys I'm not trying to be defensive first off I have great trainers! Which includes a brand new strength training coach. I am not a fighter with 0-8 tomato can record, too add to all that I have a coach that trained Lennox Lewis a National Level coach and when I go on about twisting my limbs to get strong they look at me funny and say that's called stretching not resistance (heavy) training. You'd be wrong to think that I'm stupid since I come from good genes my one of my parents is a physician the other an academic had my grades fallen below the honor roll I wouldn't even be boxing. Again I'm not posting anything my question is the following how does stretching fully to the normal range activate type 2 muscle fibre. Kindly answer that question. Please!Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsWhere in that article does it even say anything about flexibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDScience doesn't agree with you since its the muscle fibre that generates mass and velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsYou have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDSounds like moogley poogley hoogley! Why because muscle has lost then connection to the cns when stretched beyond its normal range of motion. Punchers are born not made.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldPunching technique can be learned; I have taught it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDMeh!rotation and flexibility is something that your born with there is very little evidence that it can be improved.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThat is moere or less the basis of sound punching technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUDHow will good technique help with rotation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I've been working once or twice a week with a friend who's a wrestler. Not the explosive kind, the lanky awkward kind who scores on snap downs and go behinds. Just Tuesday night he dropped one guy with a body shot, another with a left hook and nearly floored somebody with his jab. When we first started I could catch his punches barehanded, now it doesn't feel good through the mitts. A second wrestler (the kind with huge muscles, who's supposed to be too slow) who I've been working with but less frequently also scored a knockdown with a body shot.
Keep in mind both had flexibility issues. One couldn't turn his legs in without leaning, the other couldn't keep them apart.
And I'm not even a damn coach. I'm a baby in this game compared to scrap and grey, but 2 days a week max is enough for me to teach these guys respectable punching power. Neither of them is a natural, both were extremely stiff and uncomfortable. Hell to some extent they still are.
Now of course some guys do have that natural power, and they'll hit like a truck on accident. Doesn't mean you can't teach everyone else to at least hit hard, even if you can't put dynamite in their fists.
BBC Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Muscles Layer
Besides it doesn't even matter. You can post random internet sources all day. If you walked up to any half-decent strength and conditioning coach or physical therapist and told them flexibility can't be improved you'd be laughed out of the room. It's an opinion that can't even be taken seriously. You have to be trolling.
The original argument was you saying flexibility can't be improved, which is absolute bullshit. You sound like someone who just read about this topic last week and is claiming to be an expert on it. And not a single person is saying stretching makes you strong, is reading comprehension not required to be an honor roll student where you're from?
If you already have full range of motion then great, you don't necessarily need to stretch but you still should do work to improve strength and do it along that full range of motion. Plenty of people have flexibility but lack mobility due to either muscle weaknesses/imbalances or a lack of coordination.
For the record it's very rare for someone to show up to a boxing gym with great mobility in the ankles and hips. Legs are often turned in or out, glutes are often weak (especially glute med), there tends to be very little strength or endurance under hip flexion, especially when rotational components are added, etc. I've heard from several coaches over the past few years that something like 90% of people who step in a gym have problems with their body that have to be fixed before they can ever get their technique right.
First we don't start with stretches that's what skipping is for.stretching comes after boxing and our work outs that being said there is no set routine for stretching. As for the ankle thing we push off not twist off! In your stance shoulders over hips now push off your front foot and snap out the jab do the same with the hook. You don't have time to twist your ankle since we do 3 for 1, get your 3 punches off snap snap. Remember it's about a fast jab with your hands up and you coming forward. my trainer's reaction after hearing me read off jms and Wayne flints was with a smirk, English isn't his first language so we conversed in his native tongue. This is what he said after you finish working out walk it out, touch your toes a few a times do what you got to do! and there's your flexibility.
And that right there is why so many pro trainers think the amateur system is ruining the sport!Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUD
Be interesting to know, Hie opinion on what causes 95% of injuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUD
Who is your trainer? How many Titlists has he trained? Your trainer can think he knows what he wants but if he wasnt an idiot he would understand how important a balanced musculature system and sound posture is in terms of strength and mobility. Your just arguing with a textbook on that one lol, keep smirking, im laughin my ass off here.
When Scrap sorted my hips i could squat 160kg for reps at 12st 8lbs without having touched a weight for years. I had done weights in the past for a few year consistantly and never squatted anything near that even though i was carrying quite a considerable amount more muscle back then. Power or more importantly RFD is directly linked to maximal strength. We spent a hell of a lot of time stretching.
There are other ways to develop power and strength but they will leave you tight eventually and in need of guess what? Lol
Jms some good posts by you, im starting to think this guy is trolling, btw BCBUD Scrap has a record thatll stand up to any national coach, go on BC whats "coach" called eh? Nobody trains you man you dont even box.
Videos needed to prove BC isnt OMG and just a troll. Post a vid up of you and coach on the mitts BCBUD
I'd be shocked if he posted anything of the sort. At this point he has to be trolling. I guess OMGWTF starts the threads then BC trolls them.
Pathetic. Please tell me you're trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCBUD