This heavyweight division is a disaster

Nothing serves better notice of how padded and lame the heavyweight division is with all the once had 0's challengers other then the festivities last evening along with the players.

It really is pathetic. Definitely in the tie break for the worst ever. Not Wlads fault but such is life. Tarver was ranked #1 in the US and #7 in the world rankings going in. How did he manage that, Mike Shepard?

Banks was #10 in the US and #35 in WR.

Btw Tarver has now fought a higher ranked man then Wilder. Shouldn't Antonio be getting the title shot?


http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/y...s/facepalm.gif No wonder Haye is circling the drain.

Lots of good HWs out there, but the promoters and the WBA keep recycling old guys like Tarver.

The old guys like Oquendo, Briggs and Tarver won't fight talented young HWs like Jennings, Martin, Wilder, Joshua, etc.

Yes @Max Power thinks it is the best ever! ;)

There are a few kats in the offing like Joshua but he's inheriting a pretty stagnant pond. I find its odd that with our species getting bigger, population growth, nutrition, science etc etc that boxing cant put together a better field of players. You would think with all the advantages we'd be swimming in heavyweight talent. Instead is drowns in a pool of its own filth. Perhaps a new Era will begin with a young crop or it could just be that the mediocre will just look better.

:rolleyes:

Sometimes I wonder why you guys try. It amuses me at times that it's the guys who CLAIM to be the historical buffs and insinuate that I don't understand history, that sometimes totally overlook the history of the sport.

Throughout time, the US (and others, it's unfair to pick on them alone here maybe), has succeeded in iconising fighters.

Especially in America, FAME NAMES are more important than ACTUAL RECORDS.

Everybody knows Tarver is a shot fighter. Exactly the same as Briggs is too. Every objective fan knows they will never beat a REAL challenger, which are OBVIOUSLY still out there in force.

In fact, there's never been a more stacked HW division, with so many dangerous opponents in it's history.

The fact that a few ancient fossils manage to find their way into the rankings is irrelevant.

But did such things happen in the past?

DAMN right it did!

A 50 year old decrepit Archie Moore, sub 200, fighting the young "lion" Cassius Clay.

Did anybody earn their title shot by beating questionable opposition?

Previous challengers earned their shots by beating nothing but STRAIGHT UP BUMS MAINLY! I am not talking about guys ranked #10 or #35. I am talking about guys who have barely won their fights! Who have no business even being in the ring. Today, challengers are NOT ALLOWED to face bums at the top, they can only earn their shot by beating something relevant.

And so the WBA has orchestrated a couple of fame names to recognition that don't really deserve to be there. BLOODY HELL! Let's say the whole HW era is a disaster! LOL What a joke. As if there wasn't 10x more corruption in the past when the spotlight wasn't on! And what's that got to do with the quality of the HW boxers in general anyway?

Archie Moore is a legend at light heavy and will always be talked about with affection.

Will the same be said for Tarver? Briggs?

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Originally Posted by Max Power

:rolleyes:

Sometimes I wonder why you guys try. It amuses me at times that it's the guys who CLAIM to be the historical buffs and insinuate that I don't understand history, that sometimes totally overlook the history of the sport.

Throughout time, the US (and others, it's unfair to pick on them alone here maybe), has succeeded in iconising fighters.

Especially in America, FAME NAMES are more important than ACTUAL RECORDS.

Everybody knows Tarver is a shot fighter. Exactly the same as Briggs is too. Every objective fan knows they will never beat a REAL challenger, which are OBVIOUSLY still out there in force.

In fact, there's never been a more stacked HW division, with so many dangerous opponents in it's history.

The fact that a few ancient fossils manage to find their way into the rankings is irrelevant.

But did such things happen in the past?

DAMN right it did!

A 50 year old decrepit Archie Moore, sub 200, fighting the young "lion" Cassius Clay.

Did anybody earn their title shot by beating questionable opposition?

Previous challengers earned their shots by beating nothing but STRAIGHT UP BUMS MAINLY! I am not talking about guys ranked #10 or #35. I am talking about guys who have barely won their fights! Who have no business even being in the ring. Today, challengers are NOT ALLOWED to face bums at the top, they can only earn their shot by beating something relevant.

And so the WBA has orchestrated a couple of fame names to recognition that don't really deserve to be there. BLOODY HELL! Let's say the whole HW era is a disaster! LOL What a joke. As if there wasn't 10x more corruption in the past when the spotlight wasn't on! And what's that got to do with the quality of the HW boxers in general anyway?

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Fighters aren't allowed to face bums at the top? Then explain how Wilder was allowed to fight 25-16 bum Jason Gavern in his last fight. Explain how he was allowed to fight journeyman Nicolai Firtha in one of his last 3 fights.

Alex Leapai is a bum.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

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Originally Posted by Max Power

:rolleyes:

Sometimes I wonder why you guys try. It amuses me at times that it's the guys who CLAIM to be the historical buffs and insinuate that I don't understand history, that sometimes totally overlook the history of the sport.

Throughout time, the US (and others, it's unfair to pick on them alone here maybe), has succeeded in iconising fighters.

Especially in America, FAME NAMES are more important than ACTUAL RECORDS.

Everybody knows Tarver is a shot fighter. Exactly the same as Briggs is too. Every objective fan knows they will never beat a REAL challenger, which are OBVIOUSLY still out there in force.

In fact, there's never been a more stacked HW division, with so many dangerous opponents in it's history.

The fact that a few ancient fossils manage to find their way into the rankings is irrelevant.

But did such things happen in the past?

DAMN right it did!

A 50 year old decrepit Archie Moore, sub 200, fighting the young "lion" Cassius Clay.

Did anybody earn their title shot by beating questionable opposition?

Previous challengers earned their shots by beating nothing but STRAIGHT UP BUMS MAINLY! I am not talking about guys ranked #10 or #35. I am talking about guys who have barely won their fights! Who have no business even being in the ring. Today, challengers are NOT ALLOWED to face bums at the top, they can only earn their shot by beating something relevant.

And so the WBA has orchestrated a couple of fame names to recognition that don't really deserve to be there. BLOODY HELL! Let's say the whole HW era is a disaster! LOL What a joke. As if there wasn't 10x more corruption in the past when the spotlight wasn't on! And what's that got to do with the quality of the HW boxers in general anyway?

---

Fighters aren't allowed to face bums at the top? Then explain how Wilder was allowed to fight 25-16 bum Jason Gavern in his last fight. Explain how he was allowed to fight journeyman Nicolai Firtha in one of his last 3 fights.

---

Yes, ok, you have actually got me there.

I stretched the truth. Only the CHAMPS are not allowed to fight bums.

And a contender CAN build up their position by beating a steady string of bums. They need to then only beat maybe ONE relevant fighter to earn their title shot.

If you look at Wladimir's opponents, none of the seemed to get their shot by beating a bummy opponent (or atleast beat a good opponent within 2 fights).

But yeah my claim that all ranked boxers are disallowed to fight bums was a bit ridiculous.

Now why don't you piss off to one of your other forums VG and butt out of bsiness that doesn't concern you! LOL

We like pissing you off it is fun. :)

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Originally Posted by Master

Archie Moore is a legend at light heavy and will always be talked about with affection.

Will the same be said for Tarver? Briggs?

---

Its really odd that the division is such a nightmare. Given the math and improved technique of the big men lol it should be a lock. All this conditioning and science and 95% of these clowns cant fight 5 rounds. The ones that buck the trend are like fence posts with arms. Its a 3 way tie for ownership of the town called historical ink blot between JohnL's time, Marciano's and this one.

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Originally Posted by Master

Alex Leapai is a bum.

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Alex Leapai 30-6 (24KO's) is not a bum.

He has a good record and a dangerous record.

He compiled it exclusively against 200+ opponents

He earned his title shot by beaten a 30+ fight undefeated boxer who combined an aggressive style with fast handspeed and a hard punch himself and took his mandatory spot.

Alex Leapai highlight reel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocY93sjhOhU

Joe Frazier highlight reel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vUuXvAHlLQ

One of Wladimir Klitschko's WORST OPPONENTS, greater than one of Ali's SIGNATURE OPPONENTS!

Thank the LORD I was born in 1981 and did not have to directly bare witness to rubbish eras.

Seriously, if boxing is really in a farce state right now compared to earlier times then why would we even watch this shit, it would be pathetic!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by Master

Alex Leapai is a bum.

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Alex Leapai 30-6 (24KO's) is not a bum.

He has a good record and a dangerous record.

He compiled it exclusively against 200+ opponents

He earned his title shot by beaten a 30+ fight undefeated boxer who combined an aggressive style with fast handspeed and a hard punch himself and took his mandatory spot.

Alex Leapai highlight reel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocY93sjhOhU

Joe Frazier highlight reel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vUuXvAHlLQ

One of Wladimir Klitschko's WORST OPPONENTS, greater than one of Ali's SIGNATURE OPPONENTS!

Thank the LORD I was born in 1981 and did not have to directly bare witness to rubbish eras.

Seriously, if boxing is really in a farce state right now compared to earlier times then why would we even watch this shit, it would be pathetic!

---

Leapai doesn't have a good record. Most of his wins are over bums. He lost to journeyman Kevin Johnson by TKO, and Johnson is featherfisted. He also lost to Malik Scott.

I was wrong you just got dumber.

Over 7 Billion and hard pressed to find one gifted man over 220 pounds. I wonder why it is? It just does not make any sense.


Sorry make that 200 pounds drifting downward as I type.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Master

Archie Moore is a legend at light heavy and will always be talked about with affection.

Will the same be said for Tarver? Briggs?

---

Its really odd that the division is such a nightmare. Given the math and improved technique of the big men lol it should be a lock. All this conditioning and science and 95% of these clowns cant fight 5 rounds. The ones that buck the trend are like fence posts with arms. Its a 3 way tie for ownership of the town called historical ink blot between JohnL's time, Marciano's and this one.

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Nothing in this post contains any objective information at all.

I think I could decipher that you said skinnier boxers display better stamina. DUH, your a real EXPERT.

You made a claim that 95% of boxers can't fight 5 rounds. Straight out disproven by boxrec!

The only boxers who can't fight 5 rounds, are the entry level pro's in 4 rounders you idiot! LOL

The rest is nothing but your subjective opinion. Atleast try to offer some factual support.

Tarver is a joke.

Lets hope anthony joshua is the real deal.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Over 7 Billion and hard pressed to find one gifted man over 220 pounds. I wonder why it is? It just does not make any sense.

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The mere fact they weight 200+ lb means they are automatically great and athletic is some peoples eyes. :rolleyes:

Its a working hypothesis. Plenty are being manufactured but they all either fight like Jess Willard or have the punch output of a three toed sloth. Is it big fish in small pond syndrome?

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Leapai doesn't have a good record. Most of his wins are over bums. He lost to journeyman Kevin Johnson by TKO, and Johnson is featherfisted. He also lost to Malik Scott.

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Kevin Jonson 29-6 (14). Good opponent. Yes Johnson is a featherfist of this era. NOT by comparison with other eras. Johnson's average opponent weight is 225lbs! Obviously the heftier your opponents get, the harder they are to KO!

Malik Scott 37-2, only ever lost to 2 ranked contenders Wilder and Chisora, good opponent.

Leapai fought no more bums than did the CHAMPIONS of previous eras! Take a good look at Sonny Liston's record, then get back to me and tell me who fought the better opponents, Liston or Leapai? ;)

You cannot slam current fighters records when in fact they are MUCH better, than previously! First they're padded to look good according to Inuit and now they are straight out bad.???

You know what, we should all be damn PROUD of how far HW boxing has improved!

When a sub HW multiple world titlist pumped up to a ripped 217lbs to face the HW champ with solid skills and a solid record, and a big strong, hefty puncher, also with a good record are the champs 2 WORST OPPONENTS, you KNOW that the system is working!

"Nobody in 7 billion over 200lbs"

Really? LOL

So you put no stock in your own Arreola, Jennings, Wilder or Perez?

You put no stock in Stiverne?

You put no stock in Haye, Joshua, Chisora, Fury?

You put no stock in Povetkin, Pulev or Wladimir?

Among others...

I have a feeling somebody is being a little bit biased here.

They don't look like they fight anything like Jess Willard to me ;)

Perhaps its a model designed in a cruel twist to act as a kind of model for show and tell at future schools to demonstrate in a three dimensional way, the first law of physics or essentially, from nothing, nothing derives.

I'll be sure to give it further thought because there has simply got to be a real tangible reason as to why in this era with all its advantages that it sucks so bad.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Perhaps its a model designed in a cruel twist to act as a kind of model for show and tell at future schools to demonstrate in a three dimensional way, the first law of physics or essentially, from nothing, nothing derives.

I'll be sure to give it further thought because there has simply got to be a real tangible reason as to why in this era with all its advantages that it sucks so bad.

---

Just answer that little questionnaire of mine and I'll help you out..

1. Colour of your skin??
2. Nationality??
3. Are you a writer/reporter for a boxing column or have a media attachment to the sport?
4. Do you stand to profit financially or socially from having this opinion?

Initial guess? Your a black guy, American, got your ass boot out of HW boxing from which you are not confident of your return to past days (they are over forever now in fact) so you desperately try to slam the state of affairs so ya don't look so bad and hide away behind a mythological past.

Pathetic!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Perhaps its a model designed in a cruel twist to act as a kind of model for show and tell at future schools to demonstrate in a three dimensional way, the first law of physics or essentially, from nothing, nothing derives.

I'll be sure to give it further thought because there has simply got to be a real tangible reason as to why in this era with all its advantages that it sucks so bad.

---

Just answer that little questionnaire of mine and I'll help you out..

1. Colour of your skin??
2. Nationality??
3. Are you a writer/reporter for a boxing column or have a media attachment to the sport?
4. Do you stand to profit financially or socially from having this opinion?

Initial guess? Your a black guy, American, got your ass boot out of HW boxing from which you are not confident of your return to past days (they are over forever now in fact) so you desperately try to slam the state of affairs so ya don't look so bad and hide away behind a mythological past.

Pathetic!

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Answer this: Are you Hayes boyfriend?

Fantastic!

I was perplexed by Espns push of Tarver and even more so in the main event but for as much of a bad joke as he is at it won't change anytime soon. The old fart has that gift for gab and was always a talker. Even more embarrassing is that last night he did what over hyped supposed huge bombers Briggs and Wilder have failed to do in there entire careers...dominate and ko a 'top 10 heavyweight'. But that would be giving credit to these pin the tail on the donkey ratings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Alex Leapai is a bum.

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Yes he is but he did sort of earn his mandatory position by beating boystov.. It was a total scam that boystov was being set up for a title shot by getting an eliminator fight v a nobody and leapai beat him clearly.. I think that's a pretty good thing as I said it was a lod of crap that boystov was ever in the picture for a title shot but leapai giving him a beating and getting his shot is a nice story.. I'm glad leapai beat the backed fighter and got his money and title fight.. I am definitely a supporter of leapais failed title challenge !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [B

IamInuit[/B];1288182]Perhaps its a model designed in a cruel twist to act as a kind of model for show and tell at future schools to demonstrate in a three dimensional way, the first law of physics or essentially, from nothing, nothing derives.

I'll be sure to give it further thought because there has simply got to be a real tangible reason as to why in this era with all its advantages that it sucks so bad.

---

Just answer that little questionnaire of mine and I'll help you out..

1. Colour of your skin??
2. Nationality??
3. Are you a writer/reporter for a boxing column or have a media attachment to the sport?
4. Do you stand to profit financially or socially from having this opinion?

Initial guess? Your a black guy, American, got your ass boot out of HW boxing from which you are not confident of your return to past days (they are over forever now in fact) so you desperately try to slam the state of affairs so ya don't look so bad and hide away behind a mythological past.

Pathetic!

---

HAHAHahhahahaHHahahh!!!!

Yeah @Max Power The guy's username is IamInuit.

He MUST BE a former black American HW boxer who is just jilted by the sport that he couldn't make it in because of all the amazing competition out there!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Over 7 Billion and hard pressed to find one gifted man over 220 pounds. I wonder why it is? It just does not make any sense.


Sorry make that 200 pounds drifting downward as I type.

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Wladimir Klitschko is a gifted man, but many refuse to acknowledge it because he's from Eastern Europe.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I was perplexed by Espns push of Tarver and even more so in the main event but for as much of a bad joke as he is at it won't change anytime soon. The old fart has that gift for gab and was always a talker. Even more embarrassing is that last night he did what over hyped supposed huge bombers Briggs and Wilder have failed to do in there entire careers...dominate and ko a 'top 10 heavyweight'. But that would be giving credit to these pin the tail on the donkey ratings

---

The division has always been based on quantity over quality but that fact just happens to really standout today. Its so robotic its hurl worthy. Its like watching a human bowling alley resetting the same 10 pins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freedom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Over 7 Billion and hard pressed to find one gifted man over 220 pounds. I wonder why it is? It just does not make any sense.


Sorry make that 200 pounds drifting downward as I type.

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Wladimir Klitschko is a gifted man, but many refuse to acknowledge it because he's from Eastern Europe.

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I think its more cause its a controlled gift and it bores us a touch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Over 7 Billion and hard pressed to find one gifted man over 220 pounds. I wonder why it is? It just does not make any sense.


Sorry make that 200 pounds drifting downward as I type.

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You are welcome to watch a different sport. Or replay your old favourites as often as you like.

Putz! :lickish:

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [B

IamInuit[/B];1288182]Perhaps its a model designed in a cruel twist to act as a kind of model for show and tell at future schools to demonstrate in a three dimensional way, the first law of physics or essentially, from nothing, nothing derives.

I'll be sure to give it further thought because there has simply got to be a real tangible reason as to why in this era with all its advantages that it sucks so bad.

---

Just answer that little questionnaire of mine and I'll help you out..

1. Colour of your skin??
2. Nationality??
3. Are you a writer/reporter for a boxing column or have a media attachment to the sport?
4. Do you stand to profit financially or socially from having this opinion?

Initial guess? Your a black guy, American, got your ass boot out of HW boxing from which you are not confident of your return to past days (they are over forever now in fact) so you desperately try to slam the state of affairs so ya don't look so bad and hide away behind a mythological past.

Pathetic!

---

HAHAHahhahahaHHahahh!!!!

Yeah @Max Power The guy's username is IamInuit.

He MUST BE a former black American HW boxer who is just jilted by the sport that he couldn't make it in because of all the amazing competition out there!

---

Oh.. Yeah... LOL You did get me on that one. I will hand you that LOL

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Originally Posted by palmerq

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Originally Posted by Master

Alex Leapai is a bum.

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Yes he is but he did sort of earn his mandatory position by beating boystov.. It was a total scam that boystov was being set up for a title shot by getting an eliminator fight v a nobody and leapai beat him clearly.. I think that's a pretty good thing as I said it was a lod of crap that boystov was ever in the picture for a title shot but leapai giving him a beating and getting his shot is a nice story.. I'm glad leapai beat the backed fighter and got his money and title fight.. I am definitely a supporter of leapais failed title challenge !

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For the record I don't think that Boytsov would ever have beaten Wladimir. But Boytsov had been inactive for some time, suffered injuries and also had noticeably lost previous conditioning.

A couple years previous, Boytsov was much more credible. I thought he looked terrible in his fight with Nesterenko.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

The division has always been based on quantity over quality but that fact just happens to really standout today. Its so robotic its hurl worthy. Its like watching a human bowling alley resetting the same 10 pins.

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Let's get 2 things straight. The main difference between today and yesterday is that by comparison there ARE skilful boxers today whereas in your times, even the skilled boxers were still JUST punch bags. Everybody knows it. Nobody can mistake it!

Now most importantly, you are claiming the division stinks because Tarver beat up Banks.

Banks is a part time boxer and trainer.

Banks has never beaten a really good boxer and has never been considered a really serious factor at HW.

Antonio Tarver has wins over Roy fucking Jones at CW!

Everybody knows that as a BOXER, Tarver is OF COURSE higher quality than Banks!

BOTH of them are former CW's, so it escapes me why this is an issue.

I know, because TARVER IS 46?

This is boxing, not athletics, and in particular this is HW boxing where it is even more departed from athletics. It always has been and always will be!

When are you guys going to accept that you can be a credible opponent at 46 years old in world class boxing!

THE ONLY REASON your old favourites couldn't box past 30 very often is because they got the living shit punched out of them all the time.

You turn a hallmark positive thing about today, and turn it into a negative to suit your agenda!

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I was perplexed by Espns push of Tarver and even more so in the main event but for as much of a bad joke as he is at it won't change anytime soon. The old fart has that gift for gab and was always a talker. Even more embarrassing is that last night he did what over hyped supposed huge bombers Briggs and Wilder have failed to do in there entire careers...dominate and ko a 'top 10 heavyweight'. But that would be giving credit to these pin the tail on the donkey ratings

---

The division has always been based on quantity over quality but that fact just happens to really standout today. Its so robotic its hurl worthy. Its like watching a human bowling alley resetting the same 10 pins.

---

Robotic just about sums it up. Brother I dropped off the 'Heavyweights are the engine of the sport' short bus years ago when I realized how many sensational jr Welters I was missing ;D. Indeed the depth of the division is weak and the crown jewel up until weeks ago was shunned by the premier networks. People want variety, they want the unexpected and when talking heavyweights they want risk takers, fire starters and explosions. If not from the top than at least from the co stars insisting they belong but only tip toeing there way up.

the HW's now are pathetic. Wlad is a chumpion, who fights like a pussy 95% of the time ( he did ok in his last fight though, against a really dumb unskilled idiot in pulev.) wilder has done nothing to deserve the attention he gets. Leapai is a flat out joke. Stiverne shows promise but it remains to be seen. Arreola sucks horribly. Fury does not impress. how can anyone say this era is good is ridiculous. with the crop of HW's fighting now? I'd say olschoolers like Tarver & Briggs have a decent chance of beating any of these chumps. sad but true.

TERRIBLE

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Originally Posted by #1FightFan

the HW's now are pathetic. Wlad is a chumpion, who fights like a pussy 95% of the time ( he did ok in his last fight though, against a really dumb unskilled idiot in pulev.) wilder has done nothing to deserve the attention he gets. Leapai is a flat out joke. Stiverne shows promise but it remains to be seen. Arreola sucks horribly. Fury does not impress. how can anyone say this era is good is ridiculous. with the crop of HW's fighting now? I'd say olschoolers like Tarver & Briggs have a decent chance of beating any of these chumps. sad but true.

TERRIBLE

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Tarver and Briggs have zero chances against any of the guys you mentioned LOL except "maybe" Leapai!

There has rarely been a more exciting time ever in HW boxing to be honest, with so many good and dangerous guys beginning to face off on each other.

Wladimir has cleaned out the division several times before. I wonder if he can do it again, given the stage of career and strength of the division now.

Will Wilder live up to the hype.

Can Stiverne maintain his momentum.

Will Arreola come back stronger.

Can the now worthwhile Fury take it further

Is Jennings big enough to make an impact against the Supers...

This is the most stacked division we've seen in years!

Ironically your Pulev statement was the only thing that was pathetic!

Kubrat Pulev is probably the front running HW to take over after in the post Klitschko era.

Pulev is an exceptionally skilled boxer, similar to Wlad, who is simply better! It is in fact credit to Wladimir, for taking on such a great boxer as Pulev, dominating him, and then knocking him out.

Max you are blind to the fact that these fighters are not skilled at all. They have poor technique and in some cases conditioning. Just because they weight over 200 lb does not mean they are better. These heavyweights are awful. Truly awful.

I've noticed over the years, on various boxing websites, the people who hate Wladimir Klitschko usually have a black boxer in their avatar.

Although they may or may not be black themselves, they are WITHOUT EXCEPTION people who are enamored with black boxers.

When we have a black champion, they'll be happy. Before that time, we'll need to put up with their WHINING and MOANING about how bad the HW division is. :(