Ummm....hmmm. Thinking. Still thinking.
Printable View
Ummm....hmmm. Thinking. Still thinking.
Brewster
A far better question is "When was the last time Wladimir Klitschko fought a bum??"
To see the last bum fight of Wladimir Klitschko, you have to cast your gaze all the way back to the year 2001, nearly 14 years and 29 opponents ago!
The opponent was Charles Shufford. who at time of bout was 17-1 (a decent opponent at the time) and 234lbs (bigger and stronger than any opponent of the 70's).
Shufford was probably more famous for playing Foreman in the movie Ali which is remarked on by commentary as being humourous considering Shufford is much larger than the real Big Geroge nayway. a sign of the times.
Stewards comments regarding Wladimir were also interesting given he was not even WK's trainer yet.
Worth a look at this bum fight of Klitschko's...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDR-Q5Yco64
Then please compare a Klitschko era "bum" to a "bum" from the past.
MAx_Power 101:
"Bums of the Klitschko era > Top opponents of pre80's eras"
The last bum was Shufford? And it took 6 rounds to stop a bum? Well, you said it not us!
I stopped after the first round- I can’t think of any fighters I like who are tentative against the bums they fought.
So Wlad fought Leapai—who just lost to Malik Scott- who lost to Chisora LOL!
Then there was Povetkin who Teddy Atlas kept away from Klitschko until they were forced to fight him (7 plus years to get his first title shot at age 34?) that’s not protecting a fighter? so much for his own trainer thinking he was a superb boxer
Francesco Pianeta ? I saw his fight with Robert Teuber- his legs are spread way too far, he doesn’t fight tall, even though he is like 6'5 he got smalle when throwing & this guy is superb?
Wach has fought the same guys everyone else is fighting, Tye Fields, Kevin McBride, Travis Walker. Not saying they are bums at all, but How can I call them quality fighters either?!
Tony Thompson is good for ESPN fights, but c’mon man, Tony is a world class fighter? After losing to Pulev, he lost to some dude named Carlos Takam, so what Takam is a superb fighter also?
And if we say yesteryear’s HW’s are todays CW’s then how does that sound, then turn around and call a former CW in Mormeck a world class fighter…who is a legit HW? And the dude is what? 43 years old?
He got a shot at Wlad for beating Vinny Maddalone? An ESPN fighter who you can see fight at Chicago UIC Pavillion for about $15 a ticket. Oh & he fought Fres Oquendo a 42 year old fighter who hasn’t been ranked top ten since Bobby Brown and Whitney Houstan were married.
David Haye…man according to Wlad…David Hay talked his way to the title..I agree.
Sam Peters is the only legit HW I can see so far. He was a legit threat, Heavy handed fighter. One dimensional, but he had swagger and Wlad beat the swagger out of him. Legit win IMO 100%
Eddie Chambers is an overachiever, fat, unmotivated, but pretty skilled. I’d say a legit win.
Chagaev barely won a decsion over John Ruiz, and fought about as scary against Valuev as Haye did…so who did he beat to get a title shot? Oh, Povetkin. :rolleyes:
Then there is Rahman who got a lucky payday against Lennox and has never beat a top tier fighter since. Had Lennox beat Rahman, who would Rahman have claimed he beat of noteworthy to NOT be called a BUM on Wlad’s resume? Oh, Monte Barret, the guy Valuev beat like a ragdoll.
Ibrigamov? Not sure, I think he was average, but losing to Wlad made him quit. I credit Wlad for that.
Brewster is a pretty good gatekeeper and can stop a guy who isnt on their best.
Ray Austin wasn't shit.
Calvin Brock was a heavy handed fighter with little skills, BUT Wlad proved him a pretender not a contender, good job.
That leaves me with Chris Byrd and once again Sam Peter. Not Wlad's fault he has dominated in a weak era.
He has no grade A beef. Not one in the bunch. The best guy he beat was Calvin Brock prior to Povetkin. He could not even get retribution over the janitors, cab drivers and part time golf pros that knocked him out. His brother did. Wlads been on his back more times then an 18th century hooker., heaven forbid that he actually fought a heavyweight with any skill that enjoyed taking chances.
If anything shows how lame this division is, its the beefed up fraudulent coddled 0's on the win/loss record of his talentless list of adversaries. Haye was a total let down even with his talent. They should have brought him to the ring in a baby carriage. Its not any great wonder how these Pulev's, Pianetas and Wachs of the world remained undefeated. If they are that vacant of any boxing ability what must the rest of the fold look like? Guys like Ron Lyle would dominate all these chronically unemployed turned boxers. Its like watching the trees in my back yard go at it.
Wlads not responsible for the supply but it is what it is. It will be a much more competitive division when Wlads gone and that's not because Wlad is so good I'm sorry to say.
And there you have the real reason for the disrespect/bummification of the Klitshcko era folks, straight from the horses mouth!Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
While Wladimir is here, the era is devoid of talent, all worthless opponents who can scarcely box. But as soon as he's gone, everything will suddenly be better again. As soon as he's gone.
Fancy that ey! LOL
Sounds like a case of sour grapes if I ever heard one. As I've always said. The moves are already being put in place now to suddenly "revive" the quality of the HW division as soon as the big fella retires. Disgusting!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerAnd there you have the real reason for the disrespect/bummification of the Klitshcko era folks, straight from the horses mouth!Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
While Wladimir is here, the era is devoid of talent, all worthless opponents who can scarcely box. But as soon as he's gone, everything will suddenly be better again. As soon as he's gone.
Fancy that ey! LOL
Sounds like a case of sour grapes if I ever heard one. As I've always said. The moves are already being put in place now to suddenly "revive" the quality of the HW division as soon as the big fella retires. Disgusting!
I don't think he's bashing Wlad at all. Hes saying Wlads the only one with any boxing skills and the divison will see better fights once hes gone due to the playing field being leveled out for the bums.
The Shufford fight was nothing less than an outstanding performance from Klitschko as noted by Merchant, Steward and all the commentary. Only an agenda driven moron could not see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Yeah Wlad took 6 rounds to stop a 234lb bum, remember that. Tentative=smart.
If I remember rightly straight off top of my head, Muhammad Ali took longer to stop a 180lb bum who basically knocked him out the previous round and had to cheat to survive. He then LOST to a green 190lb bum which he later avenged only by decision too. Luckily.
Alex Leapai 30-6 (30-4 going in with Klitschko)Quote:
So Wlad fought Leapai—who just lost to Malik Scott- who lost to Chisora LOL!
Malik Scott 37-2 (Undefeated going in with Chisora)
Dereck Chisora 20-5
All very high quality opponents.
Undefeated and never knocked down in over 300 fights ammy+pro combined.Quote:
Then there was Povetkin who Teddy Atlas kept away from Klitschko until they were forced to fight him (7 plus years to get his first title shot at age 34?) that’s not protecting a fighter? so much for his own trainer thinking he was a superb boxer
Never said he was superb. I just said he was a quality opponent. Undefeated, very strong.Quote:
Francesco Pianeta ? I saw his fight with Robert Teuber- his legs are spread way too far, he doesn’t fight tall, even though he is like 6'5 he got smalle when throwing & this guy is superb?
You can call them quality fighters by comparing them to the champs opponents opponents of previous eras. Guys like Fields, McBride and Walker are several notches above champs opponents opponents of the past. Just a tad lolQuote:
Wach has fought the same guys everyone else is fighting, Tye Fields, Kevin McBride, Travis Walker. Not saying they are bums at all, but How can I call them quality fighters either?!
Tony IS a world class fighter, that is the only way to define him. He fought closely with Pulev who is also a world class fighter and loss to Takam, another superb boxer, yes that's right! Your catching on ;)Quote:
Tony Thompson is good for ESPN fights, but c’mon man, Tony is a world class fighter? After losing to Pulev, he lost to some dude named Carlos Takam, so what Takam is a superb fighter also?
Yesterdays HW's were todays CWs because they were either sub 200lbs at weigh in or around 210lbs or so which is what CWs today weigh at fight night. When Mormeck fought Klitschko he was 217lbs or approximately the same size as prime George Foreman except much more athletic!Quote:
And if we say yesteryear’s HW’s are todays CW’s then how does that sound, then turn around and call a former CW in Mormeck a world class fighter…who is a legit HW? And the dude is what? 43 years old?
Previous champs opponents (Ali, Holmes, Louis etc) got shots against the champ by LOSING fights or by beating a string of bums, sometimes even cruiser bums! Rendering your point here particularly ridiculous! It's never been more stringent to get a shot at the champ! Anyway, Mormeck got his chance because he was a decorated multiple world CW champ, a bit like the Spinks brothers getting there HW title shots don't you think ;) Except Leon was a green bum cruiser whereas Mormeck was a veteran quality HW at fight.Quote:
He got a shot at Wlad for beating Vinny Maddalone? An ESPN fighter who you can see fight at Chicago UIC Pavillion for about $15 a ticket. Oh & he fought Fres Oquendo a 42 year old fighter who hasn’t been ranked top ten since Bobby Brown and Whitney Houstan were married.
Fight hype. Everybody wanted to see Haye vs Klitschko and Wlad knew it. Haye was among Wladimir's best opponents.Quote:
David Haye…man according to Wlad…David Hay talked his way to the title..I agree.
Agree.Quote:
Sam Peters is the only legit HW I can see so far. He was a legit threat, Heavy handed fighter. One dimensional, but he had swagger and Wlad beat the swagger out of him. Legit win IMO 100%
Eddie Chambers is a defensive master of escapology and among the fastest HW boxers of all time.Quote:
Eddie Chambers is an overachiever, fat, unmotivated, but pretty skilled. I’d say a legit win.
Chagaev is an outstanding boxer who was HW champion of the world. Ruiz was also a former champion as was Valuev. And yeah it's a little hard for ANY boxer to fight scary vs Valuev who stands 7' tall and weighs 320lbs! Dummy! LOLQuote:
Chagaev barely won a decsion over John Ruiz, and fought about as scary against Valuev as Haye did…so who did he beat to get a title shot? Oh, Povetkin. :rolleyes:
Rahman, Former champ 2 time, mightily strong, wins over Berbick, Sanders & Lewis, robbed against Tua, unusual stoppage from haematoma vs Holyfield, drew with Toney, solid record, yeah, quality opponent!Quote:
Then there is Rahman who got a lucky payday against Lennox and has never beat a top tier fighter since. Had Lennox beat Rahman, who would Rahman have claimed he beat of noteworthy to NOT be called a BUM on Wlad’s resume? Oh, Monte Barret, the guy Valuev beat like a ragdoll.
If you call bashing Briggs and Holyfield average and basically retiring rich after Wladimir because there was little else he had to prove, he had been HW champ, then your call. I would say, quality opponent!Quote:
Ibrigamov? Not sure, I think he was average, but losing to Wlad made him quit. I credit Wlad for that.
Brewster was a great American champ, quality opponent, SuperFrazier.Quote:
Brewster is a pretty good gatekeeper and can stop a guy who isnt on their best.
Correct.Quote:
Ray Austin wasn't shit.
Brock was good skills, Wladimir simply shut him down with unbelievably good skills.Quote:
Calvin Brock was a heavy handed fighter with little skills, BUT Wlad proved him a pretender not a contender, good job.
Chris Byrd, another defensive master and among the fastest boxers ever, another former champ with solid record, and PEter, feared puncher, solid record. Quality opponents.Quote:
That leaves me with Chris Byrd and once again Sam Peter. Not Wlad's fault he has dominated in a weak era.
In all of boxing history there is only a single resume that stands in competition and that is the resume of Lennox Lewis. Wladimir's resume outshines any other boxers resume so brightly it's like brown dwarf star companion lost in the glare of a blue supergiant (Wlad).
Fact!
Yes he did. It's clear what he is doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012
He clearly added it's "it's not because Wlad is so good".
Since they all look good when they are not fighting Wlad, the move will be made to call it a great era again and "Wlad would have been knocked out these days" and it'll be exactly as I called it.
Especially if the champ happens to be American, especially if the champ happens to be black. A british champ would be tolerable.
Sorry but a White Slav is possibly the worst combination for public relations purposes LOL
Empirical evidence = observation, experience and repeatability. That is how facts are established. The facts in this case speak for themselves. Bickering changes nothing.
Unfortuantely empirical evidence strictly is unobtainable without a time machine here.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
There is a landslide of circumstantial stuff however which goes more than a long way to show truth.
In fact much of natural science is based on it, even in physics where the more extreme realms have grown way beyond direct testing now.
Discussion has always been a major piece in the pursuit of knowledge.
And in fact the science sect (Max Powerism) vs the religious sect (the Nostalgist/OTNB) was the most pivotal moment in the history of knowledge and is still evident in spots today like for instance the holding up of stem cell progress by the religious sect which can ensure the quality of life and save the lives of millions of people. The sports health depends on your very eradication from it! ;) lol
you will be a otnb one day.
Never!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I will be more like a Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko and know when my time is up, than an Ali or a Louis and make a fool of myself.
I am aware that the odds are in the future, there will arise boxers who are sufficiently equipped to deal with my days best. It's just how it is.
Max you make me feel sad. Like none of this is about boxing but rather your need for attention.
The reason I say this is because this era does have big strong heavyweights but you would have to know absolutely nothing of the sport to not see the great majority are lacking in the ability to fight. Some may have a good jab or a powerful straight right but someone that moves and punches like they born to fight is lacking. And it's obvious.
I agree WK deserves the credit of an all-time great. For some reason people have a hard time giving credit to someone who shows a weakness then improves to cover that weakness. It's baffling. It should be what real boxing fans like to see most, like Manny developing a right hand it changed him completely as a fighter. But it seems fandom is more about deciding on a fighter and then arguing your case until death. Ignoring all changes of circumstances.
Fact is Wladimir is great and he takes on the best guys available. There are many big strong fighters but there aren't many natural fighters. Wladimir deserves as much credit as anyone that dominates their era though.
Only an agenda driven moron could not see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerThe Shufford fight was nothing less than an outstanding performance from Klitschko as noted by Merchant, Steward and all the commentary. Only an agenda driven moron could not see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Yeah Wlad took 6 rounds to stop a 234lb bum, remember that. Tentative=smart.
If I remember rightly straight off top of my head, Muhammad Ali took longer to stop a 180lb bum who basically knocked him out the previous round and had to cheat to survive. He then LOST to a green 190lb bum which he later avenged only by decision too. Luckily.
Alex Leapai 30-6 (30-4 going in with Klitschko)Quote:
So Wlad fought Leapai—who just lost to Malik Scott- who lost to Chisora LOL!
Malik Scott 37-2 (Undefeated going in with Chisora)
Dereck Chisora 20-5
All very high quality opponents.
Undefeated and never knocked down in over 300 fights ammy+pro combined.Quote:
Then there was Povetkin who Teddy Atlas kept away from Klitschko until they were forced to fight him (7 plus years to get his first title shot at age 34?) that’s not protecting a fighter? so much for his own trainer thinking he was a superb boxer
Never said he was superb. I just said he was a quality opponent. Undefeated, very strong.Quote:
Francesco Pianeta ? I saw his fight with Robert Teuber- his legs are spread way too far, he doesn’t fight tall, even though he is like 6'5 he got smalle when throwing & this guy is superb?
You can call them quality fighters by comparing them to the champs opponents opponents of previous eras. Guys like Fields, McBride and Walker are several notches above champs opponents opponents of the past. Just a tad lolQuote:
Wach has fought the same guys everyone else is fighting, Tye Fields, Kevin McBride, Travis Walker. Not saying they are bums at all, but How can I call them quality fighters either?!
Tony IS a world class fighter, that is the only way to define him. He fought closely with Pulev who is also a world class fighter and loss to Takam, another superb boxer, yes that's right! Your catching on ;)Quote:
Tony Thompson is good for ESPN fights, but c’mon man, Tony is a world class fighter? After losing to Pulev, he lost to some dude named Carlos Takam, so what Takam is a superb fighter also?
Yesterdays HW's were todays CWs because they were either sub 200lbs at weigh in or around 210lbs or so which is what CWs today weigh at fight night. When Mormeck fought Klitschko he was 217lbs or approximately the same size as prime George Foreman except much more athletic!Quote:
And if we say yesteryear’s HW’s are todays CW’s then how does that sound, then turn around and call a former CW in Mormeck a world class fighter…who is a legit HW? And the dude is what? 43 years old?
Previous champs opponents (Ali, Holmes, Louis etc) got shots against the champ by LOSING fights or by beating a string of bums, sometimes even cruiser bums! Rendering your point here particularly ridiculous! It's never been more stringent to get a shot at the champ! Anyway, Mormeck got his chance because he was a decorated multiple world CW champ, a bit like the Spinks brothers getting there HW title shots don't you think ;) Except Leon was a green bum cruiser whereas Mormeck was a veteran quality HW at fight.Quote:
He got a shot at Wlad for beating Vinny Maddalone? An ESPN fighter who you can see fight at Chicago UIC Pavillion for about $15 a ticket. Oh & he fought Fres Oquendo a 42 year old fighter who hasn’t been ranked top ten since Bobby Brown and Whitney Houstan were married.
Fight hype. Everybody wanted to see Haye vs Klitschko and Wlad knew it. Haye was among Wladimir's best opponents.Quote:
David Haye…man according to Wlad…David Hay talked his way to the title..I agree.
Agree.Quote:
Sam Peters is the only legit HW I can see so far. He was a legit threat, Heavy handed fighter. One dimensional, but he had swagger and Wlad beat the swagger out of him. Legit win IMO 100%
Eddie Chambers is a defensive master of escapology and among the fastest HW boxers of all time.Quote:
Eddie Chambers is an overachiever, fat, unmotivated, but pretty skilled. I’d say a legit win.
Chagaev is an outstanding boxer who was HW champion of the world. Ruiz was also a former champion as was Valuev. And yeah it's a little hard for ANY boxer to fight scary vs Valuev who stands 7' tall and weighs 320lbs! Dummy! LOLQuote:
Chagaev barely won a decsion over John Ruiz, and fought about as scary against Valuev as Haye did…so who did he beat to get a title shot? Oh, Povetkin. :rolleyes:
Rahman, Former champ 2 time, mightily strong, wins over Berbick, Sanders & Lewis, robbed against Tua, unusual stoppage from haematoma vs Holyfield, drew with Toney, solid record, yeah, quality opponent!Quote:
Then there is Rahman who got a lucky payday against Lennox and has never beat a top tier fighter since. Had Lennox beat Rahman, who would Rahman have claimed he beat of noteworthy to NOT be called a BUM on Wlad’s resume? Oh, Monte Barret, the guy Valuev beat like a ragdoll.
If you call bashing Briggs and Holyfield average and basically retiring rich after Wladimir because there was little else he had to prove, he had been HW champ, then your call. I would say, quality opponent!Quote:
Ibrigamov? Not sure, I think he was average, but losing to Wlad made him quit. I credit Wlad for that.
Brewster was a great American champ, quality opponent, SuperFrazier.Quote:
Brewster is a pretty good gatekeeper and can stop a guy who isnt on their best.
Correct.Quote:
Ray Austin wasn't shit.
Brock was good skills, Wladimir simply shut him down with unbelievably good skills.Quote:
Calvin Brock was a heavy handed fighter with little skills, BUT Wlad proved him a pretender not a contender, good job.
Chris Byrd, another defensive master and among the fastest boxers ever, another former champ with solid record, and PEter, feared puncher, solid record. Quality opponents.Quote:
That leaves me with Chris Byrd and once again Sam Peter. Not Wlad's fault he has dominated in a weak era.
In all of boxing history there is only a single resume that stands in competition and that is the resume of Lennox Lewis. Wladimir's resume outshines any other boxers resume so brightly it's like brown dwarf star companion lost in the glare of a blue supergiant (Wlad).
Fact!
Well must be the whole website, because you are the only one harping this made-up madness.
Like you said 99 out of 100 people call red... blue..and you are the only sensible one at Saddo to see the true color for what it is. You, sir are the hapless ass-out moron. A second city t.v skit drivin moron who cant get his point across without throwing names, tantrum driven-agenda-based-moron.
Now carry on thinking everything you say about today's HW's is God-truth. Why not create an alter ego to have someone to agree with you...
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Priceless.
Good post there Slim. This Max-coward is stinking the whole place out. The nerve this lil' lollypop suckin' young tot has thinking wladiqueer is better than Two Ton Tony Galento who floored Joe Louis
completely insignificant thread because it doesnt matter how good or shit his opponents are as he cheats so regularly and to such excess
I have no problem with wlad's resume. It's not his fault that he is stuck in a sorry ass era. My problem with him is the way he goes on about his business. He clinches unecessarily and excessively which makes him unwatchable, that's all..
Other than that, he doing what he's supposed to do fighting the number one contenders..
So you first want to credit historians opinions yourself over mine but when trainers and analysts agree with my opinion you dismiss it and turn to popular opinion on the board instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeOnly an agenda driven moron could not see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerThe Shufford fight was nothing less than an outstanding performance from Klitschko as noted by Merchant, Steward and all the commentary. Only an agenda driven moron could not see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Yeah Wlad took 6 rounds to stop a 234lb bum, remember that. Tentative=smart.
If I remember rightly straight off top of my head, Muhammad Ali took longer to stop a 180lb bum who basically knocked him out the previous round and had to cheat to survive. He then LOST to a green 190lb bum which he later avenged only by decision too. Luckily.
Alex Leapai 30-6 (30-4 going in with Klitschko)Quote:
So Wlad fought Leapai—who just lost to Malik Scott- who lost to Chisora LOL!
Malik Scott 37-2 (Undefeated going in with Chisora)
Dereck Chisora 20-5
All very high quality opponents.
Undefeated and never knocked down in over 300 fights ammy+pro combined.Quote:
Then there was Povetkin who Teddy Atlas kept away from Klitschko until they were forced to fight him (7 plus years to get his first title shot at age 34?) that’s not protecting a fighter? so much for his own trainer thinking he was a superb boxer
Never said he was superb. I just said he was a quality opponent. Undefeated, very strong.Quote:
Francesco Pianeta ? I saw his fight with Robert Teuber- his legs are spread way too far, he doesn’t fight tall, even though he is like 6'5 he got smalle when throwing & this guy is superb?
You can call them quality fighters by comparing them to the champs opponents opponents of previous eras. Guys like Fields, McBride and Walker are several notches above champs opponents opponents of the past. Just a tad lolQuote:
Wach has fought the same guys everyone else is fighting, Tye Fields, Kevin McBride, Travis Walker. Not saying they are bums at all, but How can I call them quality fighters either?!
Tony IS a world class fighter, that is the only way to define him. He fought closely with Pulev who is also a world class fighter and loss to Takam, another superb boxer, yes that's right! Your catching on ;)Quote:
Tony Thompson is good for ESPN fights, but c’mon man, Tony is a world class fighter? After losing to Pulev, he lost to some dude named Carlos Takam, so what Takam is a superb fighter also?
Yesterdays HW's were todays CWs because they were either sub 200lbs at weigh in or around 210lbs or so which is what CWs today weigh at fight night. When Mormeck fought Klitschko he was 217lbs or approximately the same size as prime George Foreman except much more athletic!Quote:
And if we say yesteryear’s HW’s are todays CW’s then how does that sound, then turn around and call a former CW in Mormeck a world class fighter…who is a legit HW? And the dude is what? 43 years old?
Previous champs opponents (Ali, Holmes, Louis etc) got shots against the champ by LOSING fights or by beating a string of bums, sometimes even cruiser bums! Rendering your point here particularly ridiculous! It's never been more stringent to get a shot at the champ! Anyway, Mormeck got his chance because he was a decorated multiple world CW champ, a bit like the Spinks brothers getting there HW title shots don't you think ;) Except Leon was a green bum cruiser whereas Mormeck was a veteran quality HW at fight.Quote:
He got a shot at Wlad for beating Vinny Maddalone? An ESPN fighter who you can see fight at Chicago UIC Pavillion for about $15 a ticket. Oh & he fought Fres Oquendo a 42 year old fighter who hasn’t been ranked top ten since Bobby Brown and Whitney Houstan were married.
Fight hype. Everybody wanted to see Haye vs Klitschko and Wlad knew it. Haye was among Wladimir's best opponents.Quote:
David Haye…man according to Wlad…David Hay talked his way to the title..I agree.
Agree.Quote:
Sam Peters is the only legit HW I can see so far. He was a legit threat, Heavy handed fighter. One dimensional, but he had swagger and Wlad beat the swagger out of him. Legit win IMO 100%
Eddie Chambers is a defensive master of escapology and among the fastest HW boxers of all time.Quote:
Eddie Chambers is an overachiever, fat, unmotivated, but pretty skilled. I’d say a legit win.
Chagaev is an outstanding boxer who was HW champion of the world. Ruiz was also a former champion as was Valuev. And yeah it's a little hard for ANY boxer to fight scary vs Valuev who stands 7' tall and weighs 320lbs! Dummy! LOLQuote:
Chagaev barely won a decsion over John Ruiz, and fought about as scary against Valuev as Haye did…so who did he beat to get a title shot? Oh, Povetkin. :rolleyes:
Rahman, Former champ 2 time, mightily strong, wins over Berbick, Sanders & Lewis, robbed against Tua, unusual stoppage from haematoma vs Holyfield, drew with Toney, solid record, yeah, quality opponent!Quote:
Then there is Rahman who got a lucky payday against Lennox and has never beat a top tier fighter since. Had Lennox beat Rahman, who would Rahman have claimed he beat of noteworthy to NOT be called a BUM on Wlad’s resume? Oh, Monte Barret, the guy Valuev beat like a ragdoll.
If you call bashing Briggs and Holyfield average and basically retiring rich after Wladimir because there was little else he had to prove, he had been HW champ, then your call. I would say, quality opponent!Quote:
Ibrigamov? Not sure, I think he was average, but losing to Wlad made him quit. I credit Wlad for that.
Brewster was a great American champ, quality opponent, SuperFrazier.Quote:
Brewster is a pretty good gatekeeper and can stop a guy who isnt on their best.
Correct.Quote:
Ray Austin wasn't shit.
Brock was good skills, Wladimir simply shut him down with unbelievably good skills.Quote:
Calvin Brock was a heavy handed fighter with little skills, BUT Wlad proved him a pretender not a contender, good job.
Chris Byrd, another defensive master and among the fastest boxers ever, another former champ with solid record, and PEter, feared puncher, solid record. Quality opponents.Quote:
That leaves me with Chris Byrd and once again Sam Peter. Not Wlad's fault he has dominated in a weak era.
In all of boxing history there is only a single resume that stands in competition and that is the resume of Lennox Lewis. Wladimir's resume outshines any other boxers resume so brightly it's like brown dwarf star companion lost in the glare of a blue supergiant (Wlad).
Fact!
Well must be the whole website, because you are the only one harping this made-up madness.
Like you said 99 out of 100 people call red... blue..and you are the only sensible one at Saddo to see the true color for what it is. You, sir are the hapless ass-out moron. A second city t.v skit drivin moron who cant get his point across without throwing names, tantrum driven-agenda-based-moron.
Now carry on thinking everything you say about today's HW's is God-truth. Why not create an alter ego to have someone to agree with you...
Sorry if I find that extreme bias.
As to the rest of my post, to which part can you single out, follow my reasoning and counter with any acuity?
Please tell me where I've gone astray in objective terms?
@Max Power
You can write all the lengthy posts you want, and post statistics till you're blue in the face.
When you try to pass of the likes of Leapai and Pianeta as quality opposition, you lose credibility.
All I know is Wlad is the King of Stinker Heavyweight Fights.
Ray Austin: Big American heavyweight.... was supposed to represent a huge challenge to Wlad... laid down like an obedient puppy and embarrassed himself over 2 short rounds.
Ibragimov: Terrified of getting hit with a left, Wlad pawed at Sultan over 12 miserable rounds. Sultan, as with most of Wlad's shitty opponents, was pretty terrified himself, creating a horrible spectacle about as much fun to watch as growing grass or drying paint.
Povetkin: One of the very few that actually came to fight. Unfortunately, no one told him the sport had been changed to WWF (World Wrestling Federation), and Wlad was ready with all the headlocks, arm holds, and grappling tactics in his arsenal. Again...... driven by fear.
Tony Thompson: The world was so enthralled with the competitiveness of their first fight.... they clamored for a rematch. So Wlad knocked him out again.
David Haye: All mouth, then............... "Toe-gate".
I'm pretty much through waiting for someone to give Wlad a good, competitive fight..... and for Wlad to fight like a champ, not a chump scared of having a stiff breeze touch his chin. Now I can't wait for him to retire, so maybe fans can get excited about the heavyweight division for the first time in years.
toe-gate bwahahahaa his lil' pinky toe-toeQuote:
Originally Posted by titofan
You've just listed Wlad's obvious stinkers and alleged ones too. For a guy with 66 fights, this aint so bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Especially when you consider Wlad is a technical boxer and when they encounter certain styles+attributes they lead to BORING FIGHTS!
I'm sorry that Wladimir is boring to watch, whether it's because it was Wlad's fault, the opponents fault or a bit of both at fault! But that's boxing. And that has ALWAYS been boxing!
Technical boxing like Wlad does is revolutionary. There is nothing ordinary about it. He transformed HW boxjng like none other before him from a scrappy brawl, into basically a game of chess! Backed with extreme power. That;s not something to be scorned at. As a casual fan sure, but we are supposed to be BOXING fans, able to appreciate technical ability as much as a good competitive scrap.
And to be honest, I like watching the more rough house fights of the modern era a bit more, like Holyfield, Tyson and Riddick Bowe and Vitali, even Lennox sometimes! But I also appreciate the cerebral methodical breakdown of Wlad's style as well and acknowledge the difference between crowd pleasing and effectiveness.
Quotes from Max below shows he may be on drugs.
Technical boxing like Wlad does is revolutionary ;D
I also appreciate the cerebral methodical breakdown of Wlad's style ;D
Your favourite Muhammad Ali (the GREATEST as you call him) is responsible for 5 times more stinkers than is Wladimir. He stunk the place out more than any other champ in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
There is only one concession here, one of Wlaidmir's best wins now (vs Povetkin) happens to be even stinkier than any one of Ali's.
Let's not forget that Ali's Frazier fights are possibly the NEXT most stinky though! And these are regarded as Ali's HALLMARK fights!
Bias!
Haye vs Wladimir was pretty tentative. Not many chances were taken. I get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
You can criticise Haye on low workrate.
You can criticise Wladimir on missing the target.
You can't criticise each other of respecting each others power because they can both knock the other out and neither are punch bags!
Haye vs Wladimir was atleast DECENTLY competitive.
Haye vs Wladimir is entirely watchable, it was a pretty decent HW battle to watch speaking of action, it is completely underrated by haters.
In terms of boxing skills, it is DEFINITELY one of the finest displays of reflexes and technical skill of all time in a HW fight.
These are the facts!
When I scan through other great heavies recs and compare it to Wlads there usually isnt a whole lot of difference in quality. I think Wlad is missing a career defining win against another all time great heavy.
If you look at Lewis for example he does have a few better names. Tyson was clearly shot though and Holyfield would struggle would struggle with any decent bigger heavy. He would be an easy opponent for Wlad. Vitali is what makes Lewis' career and record better than Wlads imo.
Should Wlad continue to fight and end up beating an unbeaten Wilder, Fury or even Joshua, after they have proven themselves as elite fighters then he has to be given credit he deserves.
The most tongue in cheek post ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerHaye vs Wladimir was pretty tentative. Not many chances were taken. I get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
You can criticise Haye on low workrate.
You can criticise Wladimir on missing the target.
You can't criticise each other of respecting each others power because they can both knock the other out and neither are punch bags!
Haye vs Wladimir was atleast DECENTLY competitive.
Haye vs Wladimir is entirely watchable, it was a pretty decent HW battle to watch speaking of action, it is completely underrated by haters.
In terms of boxing skills, it is DEFINITELY one of the finest displays of reflexes and technical skill of all time in a HW fight.
These are the facts!
Yes, LEnnox has a Holyfield and a Tyson on his resume. But the only difference really between these guys and good Wlad opponents is the NAMES.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
Ibragimov DID beat Holyfield
Thompson would have beat Tyson that Lennox did.
All of Wlad's wins are good wins. It's just that Lennox had some difficulties with some opponents which created an aura of competition. Whereas Wladimir dispatched all of his with fewer issues because he is more focussed. Lennox blew out about 4 of his good opponents whereas Wladimir only managed to blow out 1 or 2 of his really good ones early, because Wladimir is even more tactical (and also less risky).
I don't know who was really better prime for prime but one thing is certain.
Wladimir has had a much more extensive career, has been more dominant and has fought+beaten MORE decent opponents than Lennox. That much is a fact.
Wladimir has had a much more extensive career, has been more dominant and has fought+beaten MORE decent opponents than Lennox.
How can you say the above?
Lennox would pulverise Wlad and yet you have the audacity to make the statement above.
I think Lennox vs Wladimir is something close to a 50/50 fight, and these days the slight edge might be even given to WK! Factoring Emanuel Steward into the picture it might even be determined as others have said before me, by which corner he happened to sit in (were he to be around).Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The only time Lennox fought anybody close to Wladimir's level, Vitali, he in my opinion got pulverised himself but that is another argument.
The best version of Wladimir imo is a tougher opponent for Lennox than the version of Vitali he fought and only managed to get by through unconventional means.
The most elite versions of WK, VK and LL are basically comparable. They all never were really outclassed at all and basically punched the living shit out of all of their opponents like no others have.
Lennox Lewis vs Wlad would have been a great fight to see.
Wlad has fought plenty of quality opponents...if the haters stop adjusting the goal posts.
The quality Lennox Lewis fought is different how? Tyson? Bowe, Holyfield, Moorer?
Who do they have on their resumes that put them so far ahead of Wlad? Wlad has beaten the young up and comers, the old vets, the comebacks, avenged defeats, got up off the canvas to win, he's beaten the flavors of the month, the undefeated to that point.....stop asking the impossible of the guy and appreciate what he has accomplished for fucks sake.
Oh once he retires the division will be more competitive? Yeah allow me to ask, will that be for the better or worse? Will we see stand and trade toughman fights or will we see good boxing? Wlad is so far ahead of everyone else in heavyweight boxing today he won't be fully appreciated until he does retire and you guys finally get a look at who is left in the division.....certainly no one as dominant as Wladimir! He's behind Holmes and Joe fucking Louis as the longest reigning heavyweight champion of ALL TIME! Show some God damned respect
Vitali. Wlad has beaten nobody close to Vitalis levelQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
#1 Vitali was a replacement opponent for Kirk Johnson who pulled out of the Lennox Lewis fight due to an injury. As good and deserving of a title shot as Vitali was at the time it was a short notice fight for Lennox's Swan Song...yes it was far tougher than Lennox had predicted it would be but that's the fight game. Hell of a fight for certain but it was by no means a planned occurrence, Lennox was supposed to go out an easy winner instead of a gassed out champion who got lucky with a cut.
#2 Show me where in boxing that brothers have fought each other. Roger and Floyd Mayweather Sr? JC Jr and Omar Chavez? Max and Buddy Baer? Kubrat and Tervel Pulev? Joe and Arturo Gatti? Matthew and Ricky Hatton? It doesn't happen, I'm sorry that's just the facts and it's infantile to keep pressing the "Wlad and Vitali should have fought each other" issue when nobody else did it and for good reason.
I didnt say they should fight. I just said Wlad hasnt fought anyone near Vitalis level. Which is what you asked for?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Good post:Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Do you remember Lennox went through the same ordeal when he fought? The guy couldn't live up to the expectations of the fans.
He retires, and now people look back on his reign as a wonderous ordeal.
Agree?:rolleyes:
Same with Holyfield. I remember when he was called a blown up cruiser & he was dogged for not being able to stop Forman, dogged for his fight with Dokes.
He loses to Bowe--and THEN he got his respect from the fans. No longer was he the real-deal Holyfield, he became Evander the Warrior.
He didnt get respect by winning titles he got his trial by fire. Not saying it was right, but it is...what it is...
I truly think the same with Wlad.
It's no so much of just saying Wlad does not have skilled fighters on his resume as much as saying he doesnt have the type of fighters on his resume who go out on their shield, such as Haye's weak romp with him.
From your knowlegeable post may I seriously ask you: Do you think Haye gave it his all?
On one hand Wlad has steamrolled his foes and ruled with dominance, (we all seem in agreement with that)
But doubters have the right to look at his whole career and remember the limited guys with skill gave it their all- Sanders, Purrity, Brewster just as tired as he was & they got the win over Him.
But the current fighters on Wlad's resume who are more skilled than Sanders & crew, didn't go all out, so we can't even come close to putting any of Wlad's recent foes on the Great defeats threads. They belong on a {they punked out) thread.
Last: Wlad's mentor Manny Steward who shaped Hearns' jab, Lennox's jab has done the same for Wlad- Perfected it. So he may not get his due until he retires...
Big brother Vitali would beat Wlad never mind Lennox Lewis. The reason is both Vitali and Lennox can mix it. They both can make it a physical fight whereas Wlad just holds when anyone comes in close. Wlad is not sturdy enough to handle Lennox Lewis. Prime Lennox Lewis smashes Wlad to little bits.
Wlad isn't fighting Vitali, Wlad isn't fighting Lennox Lewis...those guys are retired.
Vitali's reign at the top....not as long as Wladimir's
Lennox's reign...not as long as Wladimir's
Now of course Lennox had some proper rivals: Holyfield (an older one), Grant (like it or not was built up to be a rival), Tyson (albeit an older one), David Tua, Frank Bruno (an older one) etc. But there were guys Lewis never fought Riddick Bowe comes to mind. Not Lennox's fault, but the fight didn't happen we can speculate on how it would go but it'll never be more than speculation.
The odds of a fighter being 100% PERFECT fighting the right guys at the right times in the right places in the right style and getting the calls, not getting injured in training, having promoters agree....at some point people start getting really fucking ridiculous. Appreciate what Wlad is and that is an All-Time Great Heavyweight Champion and if you disagree with that then I'm sorry to inform you that you are as wrong as one could be about anything. Wlad is dominance personified right now how people don't see that or refuse to see that I don't know he just took out the best pure boxer the division had to offer him with EASE and with the 3rd best punch in his arsenal.
Wlad is quality and consistent for over 10 years and probably break Holmes record so he deserves credit but I do not see him beating Lennox.