Klits struggled badly against every fighter over 6'4 and 230 pounds. Only their gargantuan size gives them any advantage over their opponents. FACT.
Printable View
Klits struggled badly against every fighter over 6'4 and 230 pounds. Only their gargantuan size gives them any advantage over their opponents. FACT.
CaSe in point: The bum mariusz wach took wlad 12 rounds bwahahahahaaa
Pulev?
being gargantuan...is a helluva advantage :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
But then again, Valuev is the gargantuan of all gargantuans...so skill, balance and power has some to do with it also...
oh, and another weak azz era of HW's :rolleyes:
It's been awhile since someone levelled this accusation at this guy Klit. So let's see how true it is...
First though, it is the HW division, where you are allowed to outweigh your opponent as well as out-tall as always, so you can't complain about a size advantage, otherwise it's called lay off the burger, run and get down to Cruiser!
Instead of me rambling on here I just happen to have a link to something which deals exactly with this issue.
Wladimir Klitschko only wins by outweighing his opponents | Box statistics, analysis of boxing history records, stats of boxing eras
Weight is an issue for EVERY boxer and it should be no surprise that ANY boxer would struggle more with a boxer the heavier the opponents get.
But with Klitschko we see a HIGHER than average success rate with regards to heavier opponents fought and defeated.. And with regard to how many bigger/taller opponents he managed to knock out. Even quality opponents!
Obviously there is something aside of size that makes him successful, considering other tall and heavy boxers have tried but ONLY the Klitschko's were so dominant.
Your hate for the Ukranian boxers and for their era in general is in stark contrast with your love of that other era.
Your backing fury then ?
Wlad has beaten the absolute dogshit out of any and ALL taller, larger opponents FACT
McCline, Wach (who was on roids AND tried to sneak tampered gloves into the fight), Thompson X 2, Ray Austin, Derrick Jefferson, etc....smashed them all
Klitchkos Lewis & Bowe first fighter over 6'4 to brake the myth that tall fighters weren't coordinated.
This seems to prove that being tall doesnt give you an advantage. HAYE over Valuev example.
Dempsey over Willard, Moorer over big foot Martin.
Heck Wilt Chamberlain was supposed to fight Ali, but Ali punked his ass in the tv studio proving a big guy can also have a small heart.
Baby bro wlad struggles with anyone who has a heart and will power.
IN the world of mythical fights Evander breaks this kids spirit and chops him down...Tiiimmmbbberrrr!
I'm no Wlad fan, brock..... but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
Wlad fought Ray Austin (6'-6"), Tony Thompson (6'-5") twice, and Jameel McCline (6'-6"), and hardly broke a sweat with any of them.
I think the real key to Wlad's struggles is the following quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
The aforementioned guys were just as big as Wlad, but entered the ring with the aggressiveness of meek little sheep being led to the slaughterhouse. Which is what pisses me off about Wlad's list of opponents victims. They talk all the shit in the world.... built up the hype.... and proceed to turn in their worst performances as pros. The Austin fight stands out clearly in my mind. Finally. Here was a big guy who was going to test Wlad's chin.... and he was just as big as Wlad. But the guy went in there like he was double-parked outside, and just wanted to get the hell out of there. He was nothing but a 6'-6" punching bag. .... and Austin is just the poster boy for a lot of Wlad's opponents victims. Which in turn is the main reason why I don't like Wlad fights and refuse to give Wlad the credit some say he deserves. Because when he does fight someone with heart and will power and who actually came to fight (and with a little pop in his punches to boot)..... he resorts to clinching, mauling, fouling, and making a mess of a heavyweight fight (see: Povetkin).
"and refuse to give Wlad the credit some say he deserves"
:rolleyes:
Oh get over it
"Because when he does fight someone with heart and will power and who actually came to fight (and with a little pop in his punches to boot)..... he resorts to clinching, mauling, fouling, and making a mess of a heavyweight fight (see: Povetkin)."
...hmmmm who NEVER clinched, mauled, fouled, or made a mess of a heavyweight fight hmmm....who NEVER did that. Was that Evander Holyfield who never did that? Was that Mike Tyson who always had the opponents that didn't act like victims? Was it Ali that never held and clinched? Lennox Lewis who never mauled and fouled?
I'm terribly sorry that you're quite unimpressed with the 10 years that Wladimir has been the champion of the division. I'm certain he'll try to be better just for you....I mean it's just a shame that the best undefeated boxer the division had to offer just got lit up by Wlad and stopped in the 5th round with relative ease. You keep rooting against him though...who knows maybe he'll retire and you can go back to watching Butterbean fight
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
So..............
You then....... (cough) "enjoy" watching classics like Wlad-Ibragimov, Wlad-Povetkin, Wlad-Austin, Wlad-Haye, Wlad-Thompson, blah, blah, blah, ad nauseam........ as opposed to the actually exciting, competitive heavyweights prior to the Wladimir era? What other spectacles do you enjoy watching in life? Competitive knitting? Professional bingo? Thumb wrestling?
Fascinating.
:rolleyes:
Let me get this straight..... 'cause this is worth getting on record.
Are you actually defending the "Povetkin" Wlad?!?
Inquisitive minds want to know.
Povetkin made the fight tough, that's how he was going to be successful vs Wladimir and Wladimir kept him from being successful...that's all there is to it.
Wlad-Ibragimov: I did not like that fight, Sultan ran the entire time. That said, you have an opponent running, loading up on 1 huge shot...Wlad attempted to KO him, but why take a giant risk and stand and trade with a guy loading up for 1 lulu of a punch? Does that make strategic sense? Wlad did what he could with what Sultan offered him and that is why he typically finds a way to win.
Wlad-Haye: I thought the fight could have gone better but Haye hurt hims little baby toe so of course HE ran the entire fight
Wlad-Thompson 1 & 2: I enjoyed both of those, Tony gave everything he had in the first fight and gave Wlad a run, tired him out pretty good but Wlad stopped the guy (who had never been stopped ever before) and THEN he stopped him again, earlier and with menace. YES I enjoyed that fight.
Wlad-Austin: Shit yeah I enjoyed that fight, Wlad blasted Ray with a left hook that nearly took off Ray's head and he followed up to make certain he ended the fight right then and there. A 2nd round stoppage, you're bitching about a 2nd round KO??? Aaaaaalllllright
I'm happy you complain about Wlad regardless of how quickly he knocks out an opponent 11th round, 2nd round, doesn't make a difference to you. You watch the Pulev fight? Nah better yet DON'T, DON'T watch and then DON'T complain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Out of your entire post, this was the doozy.
Exactly when did Wlad attempt to KO Sultan?
In the dressing room?
After the fight in the parking lot?
While Sultan was sleeping in his hotel room?
I'd like to say I would rewatch the "fight" to see exactly when during the "fight" this alleged attempted KO happened, but I'm no masochist, and frankly I'd prefer to get a root canal without anesthetic, before sitting through Wlad-Sultan again. But to my recollection, and in my humble opinion, the only thing Wlad did during the ENTIRE Sultan "fight" was engage in an interminably exasperating pawing contest with Sultan. Please..... pleeeeeeease do not continue to defend this snoozefest, as it undermines whatever feeble defenses you may have of Wlad.
We'd all respect it a lot more if you said: "You know? I'm the biggest Wlad fan here. But I'll be the first to admit that the Sultan fight was a huge stinker, partly because of Wlad himself. The Povetkin fight? Not one of Wlad's shining moments." Say that.... and all of your Wlad defenses would seem more palatable.
"You know? I'm the biggest Wlad fan here. But I'll be the first to admit that the Sultan fight was a huge stinker, partly because of Wlad himself. The Povetkin fight? Not one of Wlad's shining moments." "
1. I've said that before for both of those fights.
2. "Partly"??? Where's your usual hyperbole?
3. No comments regarding the other fights you whined about?
Wlad DID attempt to KO Sultan throughout the fight, but when a 6'6 fighter attempting to utilize height and reach is stalking down a 6'0 southpaw who is leaning back over his right foot and in a crouch presumably loading up for 1 gigantic haymaker while giving Wladimir a teeny tiny window for a pin point punch you have to think for 1 second.....do you BOX or do you go for broke and look like a complete ass when you get clipped on the chin by a Hail Mary of a punch? People can bring up Mike Tyson and how he banged out scared fighters....because his style was suited to do just that. Wladimir's style is to win rounds and wear a fighter down if he can't get an early 1 punch KO then a culmination of punishment over 12 will win him the fight just the same and THAT at the end of the day is what you're squawking about.
Did the fight look good? NO but a WIN is a WIN...you want to run down Bernard Hopkins record and see how many beautiful fights he had?
Wlad dropped the ball in the Sultan fight, yeah Sultan ran like a bitch but but it was Wlad's show, it was in MSG and Wlad let Sultan make him look bad. Even Manny was telling him he was stinking out the joint.
Like Floyd vs Baldomir, it was Floyd's showcase and Floyd didn't look good, it just comes down on Floyd.
Hahaha! Gotta hand it to you, Lyle.
Never lose that sense of humor.
My comments below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
This isn't news to anyone, a huge, athletic, skilled and experienced HW is always going to have an advantage over a smaller one.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Why is it surprising that a big HW would have more trouble with another big HW.
Ah, a post with prose, reality mixed in with comedy!;DQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanI'm no Wlad fan, brock..... but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
Wlad fought Ray Austin (6'-6"), Tony Thompson (6'-5") twice, and Jameel McCline (6'-6"), and hardly broke a sweat with any of them.
I think the real key to Wlad's struggles is the following quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
The aforementioned guys were just as big as Wlad, but entered the ring with the aggressiveness of meek little sheep being led to the slaughterhouse. Which is what pisses me off about Wlad's list of opponents victims. They talk all the shit in the world.... built up the hype.... and proceed to turn in their worst performances as pros. The Austin fight stands out clearly in my mind. Finally. Here was a big guy who was going to test Wlad's chin.... and he was just as big as Wlad. But the guy went in there like he was double-parked outside, and just wanted to get the hell out of there. He was nothing but a 6'-6" punching bag. .... and Austin is just the poster boy for a lot of Wlad's opponents victims. Which in turn is the main reason why I don't like Wlad fights and refuse to give Wlad the credit some say he deserves. Because when he does fight someone with heart and will power and who actually came to fight (and with a little pop in his punches to boot)..... he resorts to clinching, mauling, fouling, and making a mess of a heavyweight fight (see: Povetkin).
I'd love to fight, but I'm Double parked? hahaha!!! Sheep led to a slaughterhouse hardeehahaa!!
At Kabong- In case you didn't know-enjoy reading ya'posts-even the ones I disagree with.
Holyfield: Klitschkos Would Have Did Fine in My Era - Boxing News But this link here?
Man, that story details EVERYTHING MOST OF US HARP ABOUT- THE title is somewhat misleading.
Evander states his era- fought ample amatuer fights compared to today- his: 257, then proceeded to state- they didnt get no cakewalk fights. Thats a jab at today's era IMO.
Then Holy states what I get ragged on-not by you, but brother Max Power-when I & a few state Wlad was just a big dude and nothing more without Manny Steward to teach him the fundamentals of that 50+ year old man's mind from Detroit's Kronk Gym. Holy was nice about it : "They didn't do too well." :rolleyes:
Stated they got what?:o knocked out...a couple of times.
Only when they gained in the pros, what Holy & his era gained in the amatuers via ( alot of practice), then they did good or.. as he concludes..THEN they would have done fine in his era...with adjustments they learned after 1. too few amatuer fights, 2. getting KTFO'd in the pros, 3. Getting some old school teaching...that aint me brother, thats they Real-Deal Holyfield talking, I'm just in agreement!
Holyfield was basically talking about Wladimir. Vitali everyone thinks would be fine in whatever division he was in at whatever time 6'8, a 90 something % KO rate, extremely difficult to hit clean yeah he would have held his own whenever.
As for Wladimir, Holyfield said he made adjustments to be where he is now. Well obviously he did and he fights nothing like how he fought when Sdunek was his trainer. Manny Steward was the perfect trainer for Wladimir he got him to fight tall, utilize the jab more, and we've seen his progress. That said, Wlad wasn't just some bum without Manny, he was easier to hit, loaded up on more punches, tired himself out easier, but he was still a WORLD CHAMPION before Manny took over. It was just once fighters thought they saw a blueprint for beating him Wlad added Manny and they tore up the script. You look at guys who failed to adapt: Mike Tyson for one...he didn't really have success in the latter part of his career (but for really REALLY good match making), Lennox Lewis adapted, Evander adapted, and both those guys had longer careers because of it.
I'm glad you enjoy my posts Slim, you're a very agreeable poster yourself, knowledgeable, funny, and not quick to anger either...here's hoping you stay around here a long time :thumb:
Yes it was nothing short of an idiotic statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThis isn't news to anyone, a huge, athletic, skilled and experienced HW is always going to have an advantage over a smaller one.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Why is it surprising that a big HW would have more trouble with another big HW.
Also unsurprising.
Klits are cunts, but they have beaten plenty of other giants.
Granted, these giants suck so badly that I cannot remember their names, aside from Wach, but the Klits beat them.
They are effective...these Klits.
Oh yeah well tell me where these much better "giant" boxers are from the past?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I mean, Lennox Lewis aside, what other giant boxers were not comparable to the ones Klits beat?
I mean Michael Grant, Henry Akinwande, Shannon Briggs and Frank Bruno were formidable guys but they were not technical marvels themselves!
The Klitschko's HAVE beaten the smaller, more technically skilled, slicker and faster boxers too.
David Haye, Eddie Chambers and Chris Byrd are probably the 3 fastest HW boxers of all time and as slick as a penguin in an oil spill. Chambers and Byrd have good chin and Haye has high athleticism and a cracker punch and decent range too!
With every win, it's becoming increasingly clear that Wladimir has the best HW resume of all time.
Some people hate Wladimir Klitschko, and there's nothing that he can ever do to change them.
It doesn't matter if he wins by KO 2 over Ray Austin and Derrick Jefferson or TKO 11 over Jameel McCline or UD over Mariusz Wach.
Yet the same people worship Floyd Mayweather, despite him not even trying for a KO over overmatched opponents and beating up the mother of his children.
It's obvious why they hate Wladimir. If he was Lionel Jones from Philadelphia and exactly the same in every other way, the same people who have him now would hold him in the highest regard.
The poor champ. He is heavyweight champ, rich, and a doctor but the man will never stop holding the white man down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
He's a intelligent man of strong character and a good role model. He's had one of the longest and most dominate reigns as champion in heavyweight history, and yet most people where I live have never heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Let's be honest here: if he were Lionel Jones from Philadelphia, he'd be a household name in North America like Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis were. The US media people like ESPN's Teddy Atlas, The Ring's Michael Rosenthal and HBO's Max Kellerman want an African-American heavyweight champion.
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
its coz they are harder to hold
They want an American Champion from the USA. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe's a intelligent man of strong character and a good role model. He's had one of the longest and most dominate reigns as champion in heavyweight history, and yet most people where I live have never heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Let's be honest here: if he were Lionel Jones from Philadelphia, he'd be a household name in North America like Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis were. The US media people like ESPN's Teddy Atlas, The Ring's Michael Rosenthal and HBO's Max Kellerman want an African-American heavyweight champion.
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
Wlad had plenty of chances to look good in the US but he failed miserably thus far.
He punched the living shit out of just about everyone in the US. And now he's punched the living shit out of everyone from the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThey want an American Champion from the USA. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe's a intelligent man of strong character and a good role model. He's had one of the longest and most dominate reigns as champion in heavyweight history, and yet most people where I live have never heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Let's be honest here: if he were Lionel Jones from Philadelphia, he'd be a household name in North America like Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis were. The US media people like ESPN's Teddy Atlas, The Ring's Michael Rosenthal and HBO's Max Kellerman want an African-American heavyweight champion.
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
Wlad had plenty of chances to look good in the US but he failed miserably thus far.
How much will be enough?
Just give it up man!
You can make a great case for Klitschko=GOAT and you know it mate! ;)
He has beaten up mediocre fighters and even then he takes his time about it. When there is a live opponent he clutches and holds them for dear life. Tyson and Lennox would smell that fear and tear him apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerHe punched the living shit out of just about everyone in the US. And now he's punched the living shit out of everyone from the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThey want an American Champion from the USA. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe's a intelligent man of strong character and a good role model. He's had one of the longest and most dominate reigns as champion in heavyweight history, and yet most people where I live have never heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Let's be honest here: if he were Lionel Jones from Philadelphia, he'd be a household name in North America like Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis were. The US media people like ESPN's Teddy Atlas, The Ring's Michael Rosenthal and HBO's Max Kellerman want an African-American heavyweight champion.
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
Wlad had plenty of chances to look good in the US but he failed miserably thus far.
How much will be enough?
Just give it up man!
You can make a great case for Klitschko=GOAT and you know it mate! ;)
ah, the greatest part about our sport: The intangibles, not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog still holds true.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe has beaten up mediocre fighters and even then he takes his time about it. When there is a live opponent he clutches and holds them for dear life. Tyson and Lennox would smell that fear and tear him apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerHe punched the living shit out of just about everyone in the US. And now he's punched the living shit out of everyone from the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThey want an American Champion from the USA. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe's a intelligent man of strong character and a good role model. He's had one of the longest and most dominate reigns as champion in heavyweight history, and yet most people where I live have never heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Let's be honest here: if he were Lionel Jones from Philadelphia, he'd be a household name in North America like Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis were. The US media people like ESPN's Teddy Atlas, The Ring's Michael Rosenthal and HBO's Max Kellerman want an African-American heavyweight champion.
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
Wlad had plenty of chances to look good in the US but he failed miserably thus far.
How much will be enough?
Just give it up man!
You can make a great case for Klitschko=GOAT and you know it mate! ;)
What's a mediocre opponent.. How are they mediocre as compared to the opponents of Lennox and Tyson?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe has beaten up mediocre fighters and even then he takes his time about it. When there is a live opponent he clutches and holds them for dear life. Tyson and Lennox would smell that fear and tear him apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerHe punched the living shit out of just about everyone in the US. And now he's punched the living shit out of everyone from the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThey want an American Champion from the USA. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomHe's a intelligent man of strong character and a good role model. He's had one of the longest and most dominate reigns as champion in heavyweight history, and yet most people where I live have never heard of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Let's be honest here: if he were Lionel Jones from Philadelphia, he'd be a household name in North America like Evander Holyfield, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis were. The US media people like ESPN's Teddy Atlas, The Ring's Michael Rosenthal and HBO's Max Kellerman want an African-American heavyweight champion.
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
Wlad had plenty of chances to look good in the US but he failed miserably thus far.
How much will be enough?
Just give it up man!
You can make a great case for Klitschko=GOAT and you know it mate! ;)
Taking his time? Yeah, in a methodical manner. I don't think fear has much to do with it.
In fact it's probably more the opponent who is a little scared I would say!
Takes his time = Scared witless that he will get tagged and hurt = boring fighter
oh quit harping on the poor zombie. Master he's been a zombie for 13 years now. Ever since the 9-11 protests atleast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
@Master @brocktonblockbust
You 2 think your funny.
Really, really funny! LOL
Well you can really look at it both ways can't you. He could be the guy he once was and smash out most fighters, but every so often just like Lennox Lewis before him exactly, he would get caught good and not make it. And then whatever he did, the wastages he inflicted would be worth nothing. You wiould just laugh at him for getting knocked out every 20 fights or so.
But here he ensures he is dominant through brain over brawn, and now you criticise him for the opposite.
Freedom was correct, no matter what he did, you lot would never be satisfied!
From what I have witnessed, Wladimir usually has speed and skill over most of the opponents his size. The other big guys like that are usually lacking in at least speed, power, or skill, if not more, and so to me, Wlad does well against them. For example, Tony Thompson had some power but was very slow compared to Wlad and was also not as sharp. And then there was Wach, who had power but lacked skill, speed, and his defence was pretty bad. And it goes on. Wladimir lacks only in the chin department, perhaps. But his chin isn't so very bad as long as he keeps down how many times he gets tagged.
Now, if he had ever fought with Vitali (lets pretend for a moment they werent brothers) then I think Wladimir would even have a slight speed and technique advantage over Vitali BUT.. Vitali's really good chin (proven) would see him through and we would see Wlad taken out mid - to late rounds. Such a shame they could never fight. It surely would have been entertaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Max does have a point there, @Master .
Didn't you see how Wlad had Povetkin in methodical headlocks and armlocks all fight long?
Did you not see how Wlad methodically pawed at Sultan Ibragimov until the entire civilized world collectively fell asleep?
How about when Wlad methodically "destroyed" big mouth Haye after Haye had insulted and promised to destroy Wlad?
Then again, maybe Haye's toe got in the way of those methodical proceedings.
I'll give Wlad credit, for a bug guy he is damn agile and quick. He has gotten way better than he earlier days of huffing and puffing about the ring in the Brtewster fight like a fucking lil' vaselined-up faggot.